Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Why don't Apple allow us to use what ever IOS we want?
- Thread starter Dog Bone Malone
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
eoblaed
macrumors 68040
Customer satisfaction really is the driving goal. Apple will be able to focus more resources on the OS if they have one OS to support. If they have an arbitrary number of OSes to manage, that dilutes the available engineering resources, introduces complexity, and risk, and in the end erodes the customer experience.
Not everyone will appreciate or enjoy changes to the UX, that's true. But dividing up the support effort to try to keep myriad OS versions functional, stable, secure, and running on a wide variety of hardware options will quickly pull iOS into a windows-like swamp of bugs, instability, and essentially absent support.
Limiting the supported OS versions is absolutely the best way to serve customer satisfaction.
this is steve in classic mode, why can’t apple support million other softwares/versions and so on. They have limited resources. You can’t grow people with those skill sets by throwing money. Probably will confuse most of iPhone users and bad customer experience with developers not supporting as many versions.
Last edited:
It’s pretty simple if you drop the tin foil hat conspiracy theories. The problem with iPhone is that these many combinations of upgrades can mess up the firmware and brick the phone. My iPhone 13 PM can support the original iOS version day I bought it, but to downgrade to that version Apple has to maintain multiple version branches and test downgrades for any release after 13 PM original iOS. People skip upgrades some install every minor release and patch.
I don't think anyone is asking to run the last version of iOS 15 (or whatever) as-is with what I am sure by now are well known set of security hole intact.
What I think some are asking for is something along the lines of iOS 15 LTS where Apple would continue to release security patches for iOS 15 and not push people to upgrade to the successor iOS versions even on hardware that could.
This is common in other major software packages. See Ubuntu LTS (5-10 years of support) or even macOS N, N-1, and N-2 versions support (3 years) among others. Platforms with much smaller users bases and broader hardware support (i.e. the cost of doing this is actually higher and the units over which to spread what are mostly fixed costs is lower).
However, given where the situation is anchored right now, I don't forsee anything like iOS LTS coming. What I believe would be a reasonable comprimise is a) N and N-1 support and b) letting people downgrade and reinstall version N-1 at will. I think this is especially reasonable since recent versions of iOS are technically alpha releases under the definitions of traditional version models (e.g. they aren't even feature complete not to mention optimized at release). Along those lines pushing major versions 2-3 years apart wouldn't really hurt. I don't actually expect this as if anything Apple has doubled-down on its current support model with version numbers now tied to the year.
nathanz1lla
macrumors newbie
Well do you mean "Why don't Apple allow us to use what ever IOS we want? [But in macOS it can downgrade to the version that the Mac supports?]"
Well, I don't know why won't apple let you downgrade your iOS version to a stable version of iOS. I mean you can't downgrade because the firmware versions in iOS are unsigned every update, and that sucks. But in macOS? All it's .ipsw are always signed...
Well, I don't know why won't apple let you downgrade your iOS version to a stable version of iOS. I mean you can't downgrade because the firmware versions in iOS are unsigned every update, and that sucks. But in macOS? All it's .ipsw are always signed...
Sezel
macrumors member
Not supporting older software on new hardware may have it's reasons.
But atleast Apple can give a section in settings called "THEMES" which can have all the skins of previous and current OS versions. (I wish there was a way to use the skeuomorphic design of the first iPhone).
That way there won't be an issue related to UI for people who don't like the new UI like liquid glass.
But atleast Apple can give a section in settings called "THEMES" which can have all the skins of previous and current OS versions. (I wish there was a way to use the skeuomorphic design of the first iPhone).
That way there won't be an issue related to UI for people who don't like the new UI like liquid glass.
ayephoner
macrumors 6502
Honestly, I wish they went in the opposite direction. There are too many settings and toggles and other nonsense. iOS was once 'better' than android because it wasn't bogged down with a ton of customization and far worse splintering.
I'm happy that the newest (or close to it) iOS is the only iOS you can run. Apple needs to lean into being Apple, ie a closed environment where they make things the way they think they should be made and either its for you or it isn't. Trying to please everyone is a dangerous game for a company like Apple.
FeliApple
macrumors 601
False. You’re missing the point here (many others are, too). Most of us who want downgrading to be possible do NOT want support with it.
There are NO engineering resources required. Apple should sign the final IPSW of every compatible major version of every device. NO support offered. Just a signature. That’s easy and requires no effort.
Let us users deal with the compatibility problems. If we don’t want them, we can always update and go back a version or two if we don’t like it.
I don’t care at all about support. I’m running iOS 18 on my iPhone 16 Plus, iPadOS 15 on my iPad Air 5, iOS 12 on my iPhone Xʀ, iOS 10 on my iPhone 6s, etc. I don’t want support. I just want Apple to sign the final minor version of every major iOS version.
iOS is already stable unless you’re on the first couple of versions of troubled major versions, or if you have updated far enough.
An example: Apple forced an iPhone 6s I have to iOS 13 from iOS 9 back in 2020, due to a bug that forced A9 devices on iOS 9 out (I also lost a 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9).
I use that 6s on iOS 13 for music. Battery life is poor. I use the one on iOS 13 rather than the one on iOS 10 for storage reasons (128GB vs 32GB). All I want is for Apple to let me install the existing version of iOS 9.3.5. If that were impossible, I want iOS 10.3.3. I literally have a 6s on iOS 10. If Apple allowed me to install iOS 10.3.3 on my iOS 13 6s, it would increase my battery life by ~ 130% (yes, it’s over twice as good), whilst allowing me to have the SAME EXACT USE (Apple Music works on iOS 10). NO drawbacks, only benefits.
Why doesn’t Apple allow that? I have no clue. Again, I want NO support. I already stay behind and I don’t have it. Just digitally sign the firmware. Flip a switch and I can DFU restore it as-is.
uacd
macrumors 68000
Unlike macOS, by design iOS cannot even install third party browser engines. It means that when Safari gets outdated (JavaScript in it), browsing is no more as fast and often pages would fail to load. So your only choice is to update the OS.
On the contrary, on Android you can install any browser engine to most phones, even as old as Android 5 or 7
On the contrary, on Android you can install any browser engine to most phones, even as old as Android 5 or 7
There are over 1.5 billion active iPhones. How many customers want this? How many would it take to justify this? A hundred? A hundred thousand?
Do you have any concept of of the complexity they are dealing with and what the added cost might be "to us [sic] what ever IOS we want?" What added cost would cause you to agree Apple is doing the right thing?
There was tremendous resistence to power steering in cars because "too easy to turn" caused accidents or whatever. Some customers flat did not like it. Does that mean Toyota should offer a no power steering option on all new cars and the option to turn it off on all Toyotas built in the past because some customers don't like it?
My guess is the thinking is that old versions have known exploits, some that Apple literally publishes themselves. If they allowed it it would make it easy to downgrade which could be used to bypass Activation Lock, jailbreak and get access to sensitive information and whatever. It could encourage scams/theft and Apple could be held liable for all of this. That's probably why when they do support older versions they like to provide security patches like with macOS or iOS on devices that can't update/the short period where they support two versions at once.
The current system actually even protects users that aren't updated by making it less viable to target iOS users as a whole. I don't love it but I can see some reasoning as to why they don't allow it.
SilentSpecter
macrumors member
thejadedmonkey
macrumors G3
I just want to be able to roll back to a less glAssy version of iOS on my devices that support it. Just keep signing iOS 18 for the iPad Mini 7, for example. It's not hard and it's no different - security wise - than if I just never updated in the first place.
AgeOfSpiracles
macrumors 6502a
FeliApple
macrumors 601
Performance? Battery life? Both? Design? Those are the main reasons people give for staying behind. It isn’t the same to be on iOS 26 on an iPhone 16 or 17, than being on iOS 26 with an iPhone 11. The former might eventually be okay once Apple optimizes further. The latter will be garbage forever.
The security argument is rather moot because you can stay behind regardless. Apple, luckily, does not actually force you out of “insecure” iOS versions. Those who want security will keep chasing the wheel and updating anything and everything, destroying every iOS device in the process. Those of us who prefer device quality will stay behind regardless.
The A9 chipset was forced out of iOS 9. They deactivated the device and it had to be updated for it to work. I lost an iPhone 6s and a 9.7-inch iPad Pro like that. I assume it was a bug. Some people have mentioned some antenna issue as a possible cause, but nobody really knows.
Those two are the only devices I’ve updated since 2013. I only updated willingly twice. From iOS 4 to iOS 5 (for iMessage), and from iOS 6 to iOS 7 (for compatibility reasons, I regretted that, design was awful vs iOS 6).
I’ve never updated anything willingly since 2013. Barring the forced iOS 9 update I mentioned, I haven’t updated anything.
I stay behind because Apple irreversibly kills battery life and performance on older devices with NO solution once they push too far. If you have an iPhone 6s on iOS 15, an iPhone 11 on iOS 26, etc, tough luck, the device will be garbage.
I have an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 and software quality-wise, it is better than my 16 Plus on iOS 18.
throAU
macrumors G4
Steve was often thought of as difficult, but he saw the big picture and knew compromises have to be made.
Others compromise on quality and spread too thin to build more things. Steve compromised on number of products/versions/etc. but tried to do the few things they do, better. Where "better" means planning for the future. It means trying to build things properly (maybe initially less complete) but structured to be maintainable in the long run.
Apple has gone through 5 different CPU architectures in 5 decades. How? solid foundations and long term maintainable code.
Microsoft has struggled to maintain one properly.
Last edited:
throAU
macrumors G4
Result: apple reputation tarnished by people complaining they get hacked running 5 year old platform, app devs forced to compile against ancient code base rather than adopt new APIs
FeliApple
macrumors 601
I understand that, but “I will irreversibly destroy every iOS device ever via irreversible software updates” sounds a LOT worse, in my honest opinion.
In any case, maybe this is better for me, as I can stay behind anyway (it’s worked so far), whilst reducing risk, like you said.
Realistically, if downgrading were possible I’d only downgrade the two A9 devices that were forced out. I don’t use them enough to care that much. The iPad is unused and the 6s on iOS 13 is used for music sometimes. Battery life sucks but I still don’t care because it is still enough for several hours of playback, so it’s fine. I’d downgrade it to iOS 10 (since iOS 9 doesn’t work), but it is not that important.
I think that those who would like this the most are those who have a main device for a very long time. If someone used an iPad Air 2 fully updated to read iBooks, I’m sure they’d prefer it on iOS 8 rather than the battery garbage that is iPadOS 15.
Really long-term use for a task that does not lose compatibility (like iBooks or music) is rare on iPads. iPhones pretty much only have music. If you’re going to use the iPhone like an iPod (I use the 6s like that), the earlier the version the merrier. Otherwise, it would be cool to install the earliest compatible version for what we need. If someone used an iPhone 11 and found that iOS 15 works for them, it would be nice to be able to install that rather than iOS 26, it will work SO much better. If they had it as a music device, iOS 13 would be best.
I fully acknowledge that as a main device, it is less useful except for cases like iOS 26 where many people don’t like it and would have no compatibility consequences for now if they were able to go back to iOS 18, like many have said.
Personally I don’t really need this because I stay behind. Everything I have barring those A9 devices is where I want it to be.
FeliApple
macrumors 601
Don’t care about devs. Many kill the latest non-current iOS version as fast as possible. That’s nonsensical.
Security running older iOS versions isn’t an issue today, but maybe that’s because of what @Paddle1 said above:
“The current system actually even protects users that aren't updated by making it less viable to target iOS users as a whole. I don't love it but I can see some reasoning as to why they don't allow it.”
But like I said, I have solved this problem for myself already. It’s just a shame to see people throw away devices they could continue to use even as secondary devices because the experience is so degraded after a million major updates that it isn’t worth using.
If somebody wants to use an iPhone 6s for music, there’s no security risk AND iOS 10 will work infinitely better than iOS 15.
Realistically, most upgrade before devices are truly killed. They don’t upgrade before they are degraded somewhat, but there was an extreme minority of dusters using the 6s on iOS 15 as a main device, for example.
Those users are the ones that get the worst end of this. For those of us who use those devices as secondary, yeah, it’s bad, but we manage. Like I said, I use an iPhone 6s on iOS 13 for music and battery life is garbage, but because I only use it for music, I can manage. I’d go back to iOS 10 if I could but it isn’t that bad.
throAU
macrumors G4
Apple do, and devs care about minimising their support burden.
This is the reason for their actions per the OP's question.
datsdatcharlie
macrumors member
if the XR got iOS 26, I would def upgrade because of the qol changes and the liquid Glass redesign, but iOS 16 or iOS 17 are probably the ones I would stay at forever