Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I'm an art director and also spend most of the day sitting. It's no excuse.You have to make time to get off your butt and move. It's what our bodies are intended to do. I also play hockey, so it's very important I maintain my weight. My metabolism problems are definitely not a fun problem to have, I assure you.

Sorry you have trouble keeping weight on. Since most of us have to go "low carb" to keep the weight off, what happens if you do the opposite? Try baking yourself a loaf a fresh bread every day.

 

[leekohler]

I don't get why you keep repeating that lifting weights is what keeps your weight high. Keep the same diet (including any protein supplements you take) you have now, stop lifting weights and you'll keep your weight on.

In fact, lifting actual plays against you as you build muscle mass, you up your metabolism. If anything, it seems you want to "slow" it down, which would mean burning muscle mass and gaining fat mass.

Just eat more calories.

Of course, lifting weights and being active is much healthier, but still, lifting weights is not going to magically create mass on your body. Remember the basis of physics : Nothing lost, nothing gained. You can't gain mass by burning energy and breaking down muscles. That's just impossible. You gain mass by what you absorb.

No- eating more calories alone never worked and never will. You have ignored my posts where I said I had to modify my diet along with lifting.

Lifting is the only thing that causes my body to use the food I eat properly. Otherwise, the food just goes right through me.

Now, I would appreciate it if you would stop acting as if you know everything about how everyone's body works. You don't. There is no one size fits all solution to these issues. People are different and different things work for different people. Stop insulting my intelligence and telling me that I don't know what I'm talking about. I do. I live it.

 

[iBlue]

And where does this Mass magically come from ? Lifting weights does not produce mass. You need to acquire mass from something. Weight is a function of calories and unless you find some glaring proof of weight coming from something else in a medical journal, it's all it is. You can't gain mass if you don't absorb mass, simple physics here : Nothing is loss, nothing is gained.

Rapid metabolism only means you burn more calories. Putting on mass with a rapid metabolism means simply consuming more calories (which doesn't mean over-eating, it can be done through calorie dense foods like nuts/high-sugar fruits/red meats) to offset it.

Lifting weights breaks down muscles and does burn some calories (not a whole lot). If you absorb more calories than you burn, with your broken down muscles, your body will rebuild and strengthen your lean body mass, or if you want, your muscles. This will in turn lead to higher metabolism since you now have more muscle mass, resulting in faster metabolism. So in essence, with a rapid metabolism, lifting weights doesn't help you get your weight up, it actually works against you by making your metabolism even faster.

This isn't rocket science. Weight is a simple Calories In - Calories Out ratio. Lifting or not has no impact on weight by itself, it's the whole protein supplements/caloric intake that goes with weight training that actually builds the muscle mass and increases body weight.

I understand what you're saying but I think it's a slightly flawed analogy, which Daffodil mentioned as well.

Of course you need more food and proteins when you're lifting - energy expended needs replacing plus a little more. I get it, but the lifting does increase muscle mass. As I understand it the reason is that lifting creates stress and small injuries in your muscles and when your body repairs itself it also adds on a little bit extra. It's also why after heavy lifting people should give themselves at least a 2 day break on those muscle groups.

Food alone isn't the way to bulk someone up or keep a muscular person, well... muscular. You stop using those muscles, they WILL shrink. Fortunately muscles tend to "remember" and people can usually build them back quicker than their initial gain but believe me, supplements and calories alone will NOT do it. I know from my own experience as well as plenty of others, including my husband who has the same metabolic frustrations that Lee has.

You have some good points but you seem to be missing quite a few as well.

 

[rhett7660]

And where does this Mass magically come from ? Lifting weights does not produce mass. You need to acquire mass from something. Weight is a function of calories and unless you find some glaring proof of weight coming from something else in a medical journal, it's all it is. You can't gain mass if you don't absorb mass, simple physics here : Nothing is loss, nothing is gained.

Rapid metabolism only means you burn more calories. Putting on mass with a rapid metabolism means simply consuming more calories (which doesn't mean over-eating, it can be done through calorie dense foods like nuts/high-sugar fruits/red meats) to offset it.

Lifting weights breaks down muscles and does burn some calories (not a whole lot). If you absorb more calories than you burn, with your broken down muscles, your body will rebuild and strengthen your lean body mass, or if you want, your muscles. This will in turn lead to higher metabolism since you now have more muscle mass, resulting in faster metabolism. So in essence, with a rapid metabolism, lifting weights doesn't help you get your weight up, it actually works against you by making your metabolism even faster.

This isn't rocket science. Weight is a simple Calories In - Calories Out ratio. Lifting or not has no impact on weight by itself, it's the whole protein supplements/caloric intake that goes with weight training that actually builds the muscle mass and increases body weight.

Please define "Not a whole lot". Lifting weights can but a crap load of calories if done properly. You should also mix in a good percentage of cardio to!

Unless of course all the popular mens health/workout/build muscle/ etc magazines are wrong?

 

[KnightWRX]

You have ignored my posts where I said I had to modify my diet along with lifting.

Lifting is the only thing that causes my body to use the food I eat properly. Otherwise, the food just goes right through me.

You're contradicting yourself here. It's the modified diet that is causing you to keep your weight. Lifting does not magically create mass.

Now I would appreciate if instead of just dismissing my comments, you'd at least explain to us how you modified your diet exactly and why your body doesn't work like every other body (while not everyone has the same metabolism, everyone has the same base function of calories resulting in weight, it's just the numbers that differ).

Of course you need more food and proteins when you're lifting - energy expended needs replacing plus a little more. I get it, but the lifting does increase muscle mass. As I understand it the reason is that lifting creates stress and small injuries in your muscles and when your body repairs itself it also adds on a little bit extra. It's also why after heavy lifting people should give themselves at least a 2 day break on those muscle groups.

We are in agreement on that, this is exactly what I stated. It's not the actual lifting that is creating muscle mass, it's the caloric intake that results in repairing and strengthening the muscle tissue after lifting that does.

Food alone isn't the way to bulk someone up or keep a muscular person, well... muscular. You stop using those muscles, they WILL shrink. Fortunately muscles tend to "remember" and people can usually build them back quicker than their initial gain but believe me, supplements and calories alone will NOT do it. I know from my own experience as well as plenty of others, including my husband who has the same metabolic frustrations that Lee has.

I agree with you on that also, and I stated the very same thing in my first reply to lee : Stop lifting and keeping a high calory/protein diet will result in the same mass gain, that mass just won't be muscle mass, it will be fat mass instead (since that is easier for the body to convert the calories to).

You have some good points but you seem to be missing quite a few as well.

I don't think I missed any steps since you just re-iterated things I've been saying this whole time. The plain fact is : Lifting does not create any mass on its own, it's the whole caloric intake that is creating the mass. Lifting only makes it so that the body is creating lean mass (or if you prefer muscle mass) instead of fat. There is no magic to lifting that somehow makes it defy the laws of physics (you can't create mass out of nothing, especially not out of something that is burning energy).

Please define "Not a whole lot". Lifting weights can but a crap load of calories if done properly. You should also mix in a good percentage of cardio to!

Unless of course all the popular mens health/workout/build muscle/ etc magazines are wrong?

From my own experience and from talking to different guys who do lift, they have to be careful not to over-eat and keep their calorie intake lower than say a sprinter/runner. And in my own experience, that holds true. My 45 minutes of cardio is what is burning the fat/weight, the lifting is only helping me keep on the muscle mass.

That of course might be a wrong premise, and I'm not saying it's the absolute truth. I have not done was much research on this as I'm not really interested in gaining mass/muscles, so my lifting regiment is only an hour long and is quite general in the areas it targets.

 

[Daffodil]

Weight is a function of calories and unless you find some glaring proof of weight coming from something else in a medical journal, it's all it is. You can't gain mass if you don't absorb mass, simple physics here : Nothing is loss, nothing is gained.
...
This isn't rocket science. Weight is a simple Calories In - Calories Out ratio. Lifting or not has no impact on weight by itself, it's the whole protein supplements/caloric intake that goes with weight training that actually builds the muscle mass and increases body weight.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but jeez, no need to make the tone so incendiary... We agree with your big-picture arguments, just wish you would acknowledge that the details will depend on the individual and the goal.

Of course there's a minimum caloric threshold - your body uses calories for breathing, maintenance and subsistence in general. Naturally if you're looking to lose a huge amount of weight you can't just eat healthier, you also need to look at how much you eat. Sure there's physics involved, but as iBlue, leekohler and I all have suggested in various ways, it's a little more complicated and individual than your fix-all equation implies.

For instance, the body is "conservative" - it works to keep you where you are, regardless of whether that is above or below where you want to be. Research suggests that someone who formerly has been overweight needs 15% fewer calories to maintain an average weight than someone who never has been overweight before, an effect that lasts for several years. Sure, you can re-establish new weight equilibria, but it takes time, and long-term changes in lifestyle are necessary to maintain changes.

Source: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199708073370606

 

[KnightWRX]

Maybe I'm misreading you, but jeez, no need to make the tone so incendiary... We agree with your big-picture arguments, just wish you would acknowledge that the details will depend on the individual and the goal.

I'm not being incendiary nor am I not acknowledging the fact that the numbers in the columns are different based on different individuals/conditions these individuals have.

Metabolism is different from person to person, thyroid gland problems can cause lowered or heighten metabolism and will change the "Calorie Out" portion of the equation, something that will need to be adjusted for in the "Calorie in" portion.

I fully agree with what you're saying. All I'm saying is that Lifting in and of itself does not result in mass increase.

For instance, the body is "conservative" - it works to keep you where you are, regardless of whether that is above or below where you want to be. Research suggests that someone who formerly has been overweight needs 15% fewer calories to maintain an average weight than someone who never has been overweight before, an effect that lasts for several years. Sure, you can re-establish new weight equilibria, but it takes time, and long-term changes in lifestyle are necessary to maintain changes.

Source: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199708073370606

I was under the impression that overweight people tend to have lower overall muscle mass which means a reduced metabolism. This is what explains their lower needed caloric intake. People who go on crash diets usually end up burning lean body mass or muscle mass, which results in lower metabolism and results in their diets making their body less efficient at burning calorie which makes the diet inneficient too.

I will read the article you linked.

@ rhett : Just a quick search, this calorie burning calculator supports my theory about weight lifting not being a big calorie burner :

http://www.healthstatus.com/cgi-bin/calc/calculator.cgi

Activity Calories burned
Weight lifting - general 38
Walking 4 mph 57
Weight lifting - vigorous 67
Running 8 mph 148

These values are for 10 minutes of each exercise. Weight lifting is pretty akin to walking from that calculator, and that jives with what I've observed myself on my own body and what I gathered from talking to other lifters at the gym.

 

[leekohler]

You're contradicting yourself here. It's the modified diet that is causing you to keep your weight. Lifting does not magically create mass.

I never said lifting magically creates mass. You made that accusation of me when I never claimed any such thing.

Now I would appreciate if instead of just dismissing my comments, you'd at least explain to us how you modified your diet exactly and why your body doesn't work like every other body (while not everyone has the same metabolism, everyone has the same base function of calories resulting in weight, it's just the numbers that differ).

Instead of dismissing my comments, you could listen for a change.

My metabolism is such that no matter how much I eat, if I don't do something to get my body to absorb the food, it goes right through me. Lifting gave my body a reason to start absorbing what I was eating as well as some added protein supplements. Had I simply eaten like a pig and done the protein shakes, very little would have happened. I tried that route before, didn't work. If I were a doctor, maybe I could give you the reason. But just eating alone would not help me gain weight.

I am not alone in this. Iscariot, another member on this forum, has the same problem as I do. As he can tell you, for us it takes years, not months, to change our bodies. It took me five years to gain 40 pounds. It was a battle, trust me. If I knew exactly why, I guess I'd be a doctor and not an art director. I can tell you that yes, absolutely- if I stop lifting and continue to eat the same as I do now, I lose weight. And it takes me a long time to get that weight back if I lose it.

 

[Liquorpuki]

For others, who are either overweight or whose weight fluctuates a lot, try reading Gary Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad Calories". Bottom line for almost everyone with a normal metabolism who has a weight problem, and would like to right-size: train yourself to avoid sweets: sugar and starch. No sugar (white, brown, HFCS, milk (lactose), high-sugar fruits (e.g. grapes)), white flour, white rice, white corn, any other high-starch grains and vegetables. (Oh, and, skip the zero-calorie artificial sweeteners, too.) Naturally, since you can't live on 100% protein, this actually means eating significant (ie not "low") fat.

Gary Taubes is slim. But he's also probably gonna die of a clogged artery in 10 years.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

KnightWRX: You're neglecting that lifting weights can alter how your food/caloric intake is used and stored.

 

[leekohler]

KnightWRX: You're neglecting that lifting weights can alter how your food/caloric intake is used and stored.

That too.

 

[KnightWRX]

KnightWRX: You're neglecting that lifting weights can alter how your food/caloric intake is used and stored.

I actually covered that point.

 

[Abstract]

You're contradicting yourself here. It's the modified diet that is causing you to keep your weight. Lifting does not magically create mass.

Did Lee say, or imply that? Where? Just provide a quote.


Weight loss can't be treated strictly as a mathematical problem. There are so many biological variables involved that you can't just say "eat less".

 

[bearbear]

If you're not gaining mass, you're not eating enough...period. I don't care how high you think your metabolism is, try eating 6k calories/day and come back in a month and try to tell me you didn't gain any weight.

 

[leekohler]

If you're not gaining mass, you're not eating enough...period. I don't care how high you think your metabolism is, try eating 6k calories/day and come back in a month and try to tell me you didn't gain any weight.

As I have previously said, I have done that very thing and still lost weight. If I don't give my body a reason to use fuel, it simply discards it. I've experienced this, it's not fun.

 

[Pink∆Floyd]

Well exercise alone wont do it, you have to have the necessary healthy diet to go along with exercise

 

[leekohler]

Well exercise alone wont do it, you have to have the necessary healthy diet to go along with exercise

Absolutely right. My point is that you need both.

 

[hulugu]

As I have previously said, I have done that very thing and still lost weight. If I don't give my body a reason to use fuel, it simply discards it. I've experienced this, it's not fun.

I have almost the opposite problem, if I eat it and don't burn it quickly, it turns to fat. I can eat salads, but if I'm not running/lifting/climbing/biking, I gain weight around the middle.

However, I also build muscle mass really quickly, so even just carrying my son around has increased the diameter of my biceps.

 

[leekohler]

I have almost the opposite problem, if I eat it and don't burn it quickly, it turns to fat. I can eat salads, but if I'm not running/lifting/climbing/biking, I gain weight around the middle.

However, I also build muscle mass really quickly, so even just carrying my son around has increased the diameter of my biceps.

Exactly. We all process food differently. After one hockey game I will literally lose 6 pounds, even if I hydrate properly. Hockey is almost all cardio, After a game, I eat like a pig and still come back the next day having dropped 6 pounds and it's the same after I hydrate. I then go to the gym and eat even more to maintain. It's crazy.

 

[hulugu]

Exactly. We all process food differently. After one hockey game I will literally lose 6 pounds, even if I hydrate properly. Hockey is almost all cardio, After a game, I eat like a pig and still come back the next day having dropped 6 pounds and it's the same after I hydrate. I then go to the gym and eat even more to maintain. It's crazy.

My weight's a lot more stable than that. Dramatic weight loss only occurs from food poisoning, otherwise it takes a few weeks for me to notice any significant change.
I spent all day bashing out tile and sweating in the heat and I doubt there was any real change to my body weight.

 

[KnightWRX]

Have both of you had your base metabolism tested ? W.H. Sheldon's theories are well disputed outside the bodybuilding arena. Losing weight following a lengthy cardio session isn't surprising, I lose a lot of water weight that way myself, even though I drink 1L of water during my 5 miles run.

Heck, I can shed 2 pounds from a hot bath just from the sweat alone. Again, there's no surprise there.

Lee, do your doctors have a name for your condition ? Is it a thyroid problem of some kind ?

The basis of the original article remains true. Exercise won't make you thin. It's all about the food. You can sit on your ass and lose weight if you adjust your caloric intake to your metabolism/daily routine. I lost over 60 pounds just by changing my once very bad fast food crap diet to a healthier eating lifestyle alone.

I started going to the gym after having lost weight, which made it much easier to train (try running with that extra 60 pounds...) and lost the rest there to reach my goal.