Not irony, just a strange dichotomy. It would seem you are offered the choice between a complete experience that is buggy, crash-prone and of uncertain security, as opposed to an experience that is lacking (all of those things). Kind of reminds me of something...
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Why Flash Is Crucial To Future iPad Dominance
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Not irony, just a strange dichotomy. It would seem you are offered the choice between a complete experience that is buggy, crash-prone and of uncertain security, as opposed to an experience that is lacking (all of those things). Kind of reminds me of something...
I have no doubt Adobe probably began to think about transforming or "optimizing" Flash to some degree. But as with any big company, each project has different priorities and budget for development. Adobe probably did not really take things seriously until Apple's constant refusal in adopting Flash into the iOS platform.
I honestly do not understand why Apple "has to" adopt Flash. Apple made a decision not to include it into their eco-system. I am sure it was a much tougher decision back then then now, since more and more media is HTML5 compliant... It's one of the aspects a consumer will need to balance when he or she decides in joining into the iOS world. Only time will tell if Apple has made a bad decision.
Obviously, right now (in the short term) Adobe is still having some difficulties in "optimizing" Flash. I hope all this "optimizing" road bumps do not occur for all the Android hardware and software iterations, or Adobe is in for a very bumpy ride.
For full disclosure... I actually have Flash blocked on all my computers (Windows, Linux, OSX), so I do have a personal bias against Flash...
That wasn't just random site I picked out to bad mouth Flash. It was a site specifically mentioned by someone in this thread who argued the existence of Flash-only content, in this case a newspaper Flash, as the argument favorable for use of Flash. Thus I went to check it out to see how well that Flash-exclusive content works on my Android. Yet when I went there, it wasn't just the design problem. The whole thing was supposed to give you a better viewing experience and yet it was just terrible on my Android phone.
And that also kinda sums up my personal problem with mobile Flash. Pretty much any Flash that can be reasonably seen with the current mobile device, such as simple animation, menu, video etc, you can replicate through HTML and AJAX stuff. Other stuff which approaches the complexity of a real app, it's usually hard to use because of the non-optimal interface and the performance is below par. It just feels a half-assed approach that doesn't feel simplicity nor complexity, just an easy way to provide cross-platform compatibility.
Much of the Flash appeal is that you write the program once and it runs everywhere, which automatically means less optimization for each platform. If Flash wasn't so ubiquitous the developers wouldn't use it yet it's that very ubiquity creating the problem for user experience. Thus Jobs' solution: force the developers to develop apps without Flash.
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But you have the option of installing Flash, which is the crux of this argument.
Lets compare the mobile Office Suite with an iPhone Fart app. See what I did there?
The assertion was that Apple was the first to think of an App Store...they weren't even close. I mentioned VCast because it was the highest profile App Store for all of Verizon's phones.
Beyond VCast, there were a myriad of App Stores for many different phones. Many of which were advanced for their time.
Here is a list of digital app stores.
PS. My dumbphone came with snake.
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"Future" iPad dominance? It's already dominated. There isn't a comparable product in its class, and I include those that can do Flash in that. And every iPad, iPhone and iPod Touch sale proves that Flash is not a make-or-break feature for the majority of consumers. Just because Flash was a dominant feature of the desktop-era web doesn't mean that mobiles have to work around it. Flash is the one that has to change, not the iPad.
I've seen this kind of argument a million times - "Apple needs to do X to really make this work" - whether its SD card slots on iPads/iPhones, more open platform, whatever, but the fact is, Apple isn't interested in catering to people who need those things. There are plenty of companies that cater to people who NEED SD cards and NEED to be able to carry a spare battery, and look where that's getting them. HP have only begun to realise this lately - they're taking control of the whole experience on their new mobile devices.
I've seen this kind of argument a million times - "Apple needs to do X to really make this work" - whether its SD card slots on iPads/iPhones, more open platform, whatever, but the fact is, Apple isn't interested in catering to people who need those things. There are plenty of companies that cater to people who NEED SD cards and NEED to be able to carry a spare battery, and look where that's getting them. HP have only begun to realise this lately - they're taking control of the whole experience on their new mobile devices.
One of more ironic things is that although many complain the dongle for the iPad is inconvenient, not too many mention the fact that the Xoom doesn't come with a SD slot either. It has a currently non-working MicroSD slot and a MicroSD isn't really used by big cameras. So to transfer your pictures from the SD card, you need a card reader except..does the Xoom even have a reader available?
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Oh come on! You seriously didn't just compare the old vCasts games to those that are offered on the app store. I agree with you that there are trashy stupid apps on the app store, but that's just because they were made like crap, they have the potential to be stunning. Unlike vCast, the App Store was the fist place a small independent developer (ex. Me or you) could submit a quality application reletively easy and cost effectively. The App Store was the first place you could download "real" games. Don't even try to compare the app store games to VCasts.
Ps. I loved snake
darngooddesign said:
Oh come on! You seriously didn't just compare the old vCasts games to those that are offered on the app store. I agree with you that there are trashy stupid apps on the app store, but that's just because they were made like crap, they have the potential to be stunning. Unlike vCast, the App Store was the fist place a small independent developer (ex. Me or you) could submit a quality application reletively easy and cost effectively. The App Store was the first place you could download "real" games. Don't even try to compare the app store games to VCasts.
Ps. I loved snake
Who knows. The thing is, the iPad will likely never have a dedicated SD card reader (for the simple reason that most people will never use it - most people aren't photographers and most people who use a camera regularly don't need on-the-go uploads), will almost certainly never play nice with Flash, or have any of the other dozen features for which people kick and scream all over the web every single day. It is, however, a remarkably functional and practical product for all its (perceived) shortcomings and - presuming it continues remaining competitive on cost and experience - is going to win this thing with a shutout. There's going to be some heat, like there was with the iPod, and people will gladly rail against Apple and boast of all the things their tablet can do that the iPad can't, but it will eventually win out. I'm almost certain of that.
So, let me see if I have this straight.
Four years after Apple announced the iPhone, the hottest selling Tech device of the last four years, and that it would not support Flash, Adobe has advanced Flash technology to the point that the latest, greatest tech device, the Motorola Xoom, is currently shipping without it.
And Steve Jobs and Apple are the the a**holes.
Oooookay!?
Four years after Apple announced the iPhone, the hottest selling Tech device of the last four years, and that it would not support Flash, Adobe has advanced Flash technology to the point that the latest, greatest tech device, the Motorola Xoom, is currently shipping without it.
And Steve Jobs and Apple are the the a**holes.
Oooookay!?
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Try to focus on what's being argued which is that Apple didn't think of the App Store. The quality of Apple's games isn't due to it being a better App Store, its a better App Store because the iOS devices are more advanced. What you're doing is akin to arguing that the 2600 and PS3 aren't the same kind of device because the 2600's games were primitive compared to the PS3's.
I could swear when iOS came out, the internet was full of people claiming how touch screen phone had been done by other with better features and there was nothing special or advanced about iPhone, yet the actual usability difference was huge. Just like that while the Apple app store wasn't the first app store, it was definitely the first one that was designed to make browsing for apps fun and easy to use. Of course, the fact the iPhone had the best touch UI didn't hurt, but it was more than that.
How is there a misunderstanding?
This was posted
"Originally Posted by 62tele
Oh yeah, whoever heard of an App Store before Apple introduced it?"
I responded that users of phones have been able to download apps via services like VCast long before Apple "introduced" it. Apple's is the best thus far, but not because the apps it sells are better.
Or they haven't finished yet. Each version gets better and faster.
I said they started optimizing for mobile right away. FlashLite was the first result of that, and it quickly became a leading app dev platform in Japan. Verizon even started including it on every phone, hoping to take advantage.
I have multiple Android devices and Flash works as well as HTML5 on them, when doing the same kind of things. Which is to say, okay but not great yet.
What kind of development do you have experience with?
They bought the technology and then had to learn it before they could revamp it, all while staying compatible. Such changes don't happen overnight.
I don't like Flash development at all. But until HTML5 is far more widespread on both mobile and desktops, Flash is going to be around for a while as the only mass cross-platform tool. So I'd rather use a device that could view it, than one that cannot. If you don't, that's fine too.
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That's true. Your right.
What your saying is very similar to who has credit for inventing the first computer with a GUI. Xerox was the first (before apple) to come up with a computer with a GUI but Apple is well known for being the first. Thats because while XEROX was the first, Apple was the first to revolutionize it and most importantly, do it right.
So while yes, Vcast and many others came be for the App Store, Apple is responsible for revolutionizing the industry and making App Store a house hold name.
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Sure, but lack of mass public knowledge doesn't negate the previous app stores.
Almost anyone who had a smartphone for the past decade+ knew of the app stores available for it.
Heck, I and many others worked for NSA before anyone outside of the community knew it even existed. Did that mean it wasn't important, simply because most people were ignorant of such places?
Thing is, they did not buy Flash, they bought Macromedia. If they really wanted to learn the source, they easily could have just made an effort to keep the dev crew on for a year or two to walk their own dev crew through the source (or better still, just kept them on indefinitely).
There is a slight difference in that GUIs were not in use by the public while phones and their App Stores were commonly in use by cell owners. You are correct that Apple refined it and due to the high profile nature of the iPhone made the concept commonly known to people who didn't even have smartphones.
I felt like a good flame today, which is why I came to trusty MR forums. This troll will suffice.
Ignoring the plainly false, eg. iPad can't support flash, and the rhetorical drivel eg. "very revealing indeed" (huh ?!), the OP's real argument can be summarised simply:
Flash remains popular, and as other tablets that support it become available and popular, iPad will ultimately fail- unless Apple gets a new CEO without the arrogant anti-Adobe stance.
At first glance, not a bad argument. The problem is, it assumes too much. The following are some of the prerequisites for this argument to be proven:
1. Flash will continue to be popular. We have already seen that HTML5 and native apps have severely weakened Flash's grip on the web. We shall see if this continues. But I could just as easily argue that it's "high time" we got a new, (tablet friendly) open standard rather than relying on cruft from one vendor, to drive the "full" web.
2. Other tablets are competitive with iPad in other areas, including price. Sure, it will happen, but progress is glacial. Xoom is very expensive. And Honeycomb, well lets just say it has a lot of catching up to do. So there's no need for Apple to panic. However, I agree that having well implemented flash on an otherwise competitive product will tip the scales for some people, regardless of current market share.
3. Steve Jobs never changes direction. He never has a plan B. I won't go over the list of examples again. But we all know that Jobs can argue passionately for/against something one day and reverse his stance the next. Jobs is more passionate about iPad's success than he is about keeping Flash off iPad. If it was really necessary, Apple would go ahead and do it. So why are you so worried?
Ignoring the plainly false, eg. iPad can't support flash, and the rhetorical drivel eg. "very revealing indeed" (huh ?!), the OP's real argument can be summarised simply:
Flash remains popular, and as other tablets that support it become available and popular, iPad will ultimately fail- unless Apple gets a new CEO without the arrogant anti-Adobe stance.
At first glance, not a bad argument. The problem is, it assumes too much. The following are some of the prerequisites for this argument to be proven:
1. Flash will continue to be popular. We have already seen that HTML5 and native apps have severely weakened Flash's grip on the web. We shall see if this continues. But I could just as easily argue that it's "high time" we got a new, (tablet friendly) open standard rather than relying on cruft from one vendor, to drive the "full" web.
2. Other tablets are competitive with iPad in other areas, including price. Sure, it will happen, but progress is glacial. Xoom is very expensive. And Honeycomb, well lets just say it has a lot of catching up to do. So there's no need for Apple to panic. However, I agree that having well implemented flash on an otherwise competitive product will tip the scales for some people, regardless of current market share.
3. Steve Jobs never changes direction. He never has a plan B. I won't go over the list of examples again. But we all know that Jobs can argue passionately for/against something one day and reverse his stance the next. Jobs is more passionate about iPad's success than he is about keeping Flash off iPad. If it was really necessary, Apple would go ahead and do it. So why are you so worried?