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sifractusfortis

macrumors newbie
Jul 18, 2008
16
0
Use Handbrake

The aTV is not for everyone. For me it makes sense as I wanted a way to placeshift my existing media collection. I am not a regular movie renter so those features didnt really appeal to me too much. I have rented a few movies but I dont have a netflix account or a blockbuster or hollywood video account. I also dont buy alot of video from the iTMS so that wasnt even a big draw for me. But I do have a large audio collection as well as Movies and TV Shows on my main computer in my room. Without getting a 2nd computer I simply wanted to watch movies and listen to music in the front room.

The aTV made sense as I was already quite embedded into using iTunes and it was wireless. So for me, the advantage of being able to watch my digital media in the other room with a nice interface and something simple that my mother in law could use it. It has fit quite well.

The big pain has been getting a proper storage scheme and space to rip my existing DVD collection which I would love to have full access to on the aTV.

Would I like to see some other things? Sure.

An upscaling DVD player would be nice, but would go against the whole ripping of my DVD plan. Also, it goes against the sharing throughout the house plan that I envision.

The one thing I would like to see, would be a better remote. The remote it comes with, while simple, is very limited. I put that one away and use my programable remote and now my iPhone, but advanced features would be nice.

So to reiterate, the aTV is not for everyone. that doesnt make it a bad product, it just makes it a limited use product.

I don't know if anybody else has said this, I haven't read the whole thread. Use a piece of software called "Handbrake." It will encode any DVD into a file and put it on your computer. Then just drag the file into the Movie Section into iTunes, and that's it. :D
 

Alfie

macrumors regular
Feb 22, 2004
147
26
South Dakota
Why it's not popular....

First, let me start out by saying that I have two Apple TV's and love them. We use them every day. However, there are several reasons why they haven't caught on with the mainstream public.....

1. No advertising. When I talk with my friends about my Apple TV's, it's obvious they've never even heard of them, much less know what they can do.

2. Cost. Average users are already in the habit of having a dvd player or dvr in their home to watch movies/tv shows. In their minds, why would they spend over $200 for something, when they can go to Walmart and get something useful for $39.00 (dvd player) or get a dvr from their cable company as part of their cable bill they are already paying for?

3. Existing libraries. People who like to watch movies over and over already have a large media collection on dvd. How does the Apple TV help them with that? I know about Handbrake....I've converted all my dvd's and love having access to them in one spot. However, again, we're talking about the average user. They don't want to take the months it would take to convert their existing libraries.

4. Complicated setup. Think average user again....Apple TV requires you to have a least a little network/computer knowledge to get this thing plugged in, connected to your network, connected to the iTunes library of your choice, and then choose the content you want to sync/stream to the ATV. OR, go to Walmart, get a dvd player, hook up the av cables to your tv, push "Play".....


Again, please don't take this as a slam against Apple TV....I love mine. However, as others have said, it take a true tech lover to take an Apple TV and make it a true media hub for movies you aleady own, rentals, youtube, podcasts....everything that ATV can do. Most people just don't want to put in the time it takes to do that.
 

freep

macrumors member
Jul 26, 2008
53
0
UK
I also think that content is too expensive. When people are already paying for cable/satellite services plus buying DVD collections it is not realistic for Apple (or should I say the studios) to expect people to pay £1.89 per episode for a TV programme. If only Apple introduced a TV tuner and DVR functionality it would allow people to make use of the ad supported content. Not only would this make it a multi-billion dollar product but I also think this would increase TV/movie sales in the iTunes store because the Apple TV would be very popular and people could use iTunes on-demand for shows that they might have missed or for when there is nothing on live TV that they want to watch.
 

Scott6666

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2008
1,489
938
The only reason the AppleTV is appealing to me at all, is because I can rip DVDs of content onto the item and have all of my movies in one place.

THE PROBLEM, is that this process takes way too much time, is far to technical, and isn't feasible for anywhere NEAR a majority of consumers.

Totally agree. The iPod worked because it was a very simple "ecosystem". Put CD into computer, wait, plug in iPod, listen.

User generated content (ripping) led professional content (iTunes store). They are trying to do the reverse here. Obviously seems to be a roadblock to adoption.

They need to let people unlock their content first. Shame it's illegal thanks to the stupid DMCA legislation.

[Also would be nice if it supported an open format like the mp3 format was for audio. Support xviD or Dvix avi's for my taste.]
 

megfilmworks

macrumors 68020
Jul 1, 2007
2,046
16
Sherman Oaks
I don't have an iPhone or an iPod. I do have a 52"LCD 1080 TV connected to Dish Network where I can order all the latest movies if I choose. I have a Blue Ray DVD player and rent films from the local shop nearby. For the life of me, I can see no reason to buy Apple TV. I don't want to watch TV on my computer (iMac 20").:confused:
Why wouldn't you watch your Apple TV on your 52"?
I have a 9 foot wide 1080p projection set up, Blu-ray (PS3), HD-DVD, Netflix and Blockbuster mail programs.
And I love all of it, but the Apple TV is different.
You really don't have a clue what you are missing.

And the key to success is marketing so people learn what it does for real and not by rumor.
 

iOrlando

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,811
1
maybe you guys can answer my question. I know very little about ATV.

My wants:
1) download movie(s) from itunes..watch it on my tv and have it work with my surround sound system (widescreen too)
2) surf youtube

thats it... can ATV do this?

i really dont like buying DVDs, and would prefer just to download any movie I want and have it stay in digital format. that is my aim.
 

Applepwns

macrumors member
Aug 9, 2008
72
0
maybe you guys can answer my question. I know very little about ATV.

My wants:
1) download movie(s) from itunes..watch it on my tv and have it work with my surround sound system (widescreen too)
2) surf youtube

thats it... can ATV do this?

i really dont like buying DVDs, and would prefer just to download any movie I want and have it stay in digital format. that is my aim.

That is what apple tv is all about :) go get one!
 

iOrlando

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,811
1
I don't know if anybody else has said this, I haven't read the whole thread. Use a piece of software called "Handbrake." It will encode any DVD into a file and put it on your computer. Then just drag the file into the Movie Section into iTunes, and that's it. :D

i tried that with one of my dvds (total of 15 dvds in my collection)...and it said the movie was copyrighted and basically that was it...nothing else happened. I did some surfing and saw I had to download 4 other programs to bypass the copyright..i downloaded one and then noticed one of them you had to pay for it....basically this is what i called "not worth it". and I realized my 15 dvds will remain dvds and not be put into itunes. This is why i am not planning on buying anymore DVDs.
 

fivepoint

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2007
1,175
5
IOWA
i tried that with one of my dvds (total of 15 dvds in my collection)...and it said the movie was copyrighted and basically that was it...nothing else happened. I did some surfing and saw I had to download 4 other programs to bypass the copyright..i downloaded one and then noticed one of them you had to pay for it....basically this is what i called "not worth it". and I realized my 15 dvds will remain dvds and not be put into itunes. This is why i am not planning on buying anymore DVDs.

It's called Handbrake. It's the only application you need. Unless you're going to "tag them" with album art and actor information, etc. Then you also need MetaX.
 

dynaflash

macrumors 68020
Mar 27, 2003
2,119
8
It's called Handbrake. It's the only application you need.

Well, unless your on windows ... hb will not decrypt css on windows you do need a companion app like dvd43 or some such . Though its pretty painless for the most part.
 

fivepoint

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2007
1,175
5
IOWA
Well, unless your on windows ... hb will not decrypt css on windows you do need a companion app like dvd43 or some such . Though its pretty painless for the most part.

Windows? What's that? ;) J/K.
Seriously, thanks for posting that info, Dynaflash.
 

Gaelic2

macrumors 6502
Aug 17, 2007
277
7
Mountains of N. California
Why wouldn't you watch your Apple TV on your 52"?
I have a 9 foot wide 1080p projection set up, Blu-ray (PS3), HD-DVD, Netflix and Blockbuster mail programs.
And I love all of it, but the Apple TV is different.
You really don't have a clue what you are missing.

And the key to success is marketing so people learn what it does for real and not by rumor.

Well give me a few clues to what I am missing!:rolleyes:
 

CallsignBaron

macrumors member
Apr 17, 2007
86
0
NC USA
My reasons for not purchasing AppleTV FWIW:

HD is way too small by todays standards, $329 for 160GB? :rolleyes:
No optical drive. Should be able to play what is already in my library.
HDTV required, I am poor and cannot afford HD yet. :eek:
Card reader would be nice.

I can see the potential for a very sleek HTPC. They are so close I can taste it! Maybe I am just too hard to please. :p
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,377
9
To reitterate what a couple people have mentioned, for me it's the lack of DVR, even as an option. If Apple would partner with El Gato to make some software for an EyeTV type device for the aTV I would probably buy one. I'd particularly like to see a little USB dongle from El Gato that took ATSC signals and downcoverted/reencoded them to something like 540p30 (sometimes referred to as half-HD, looks quite good when taken from an HD source and upscaled back onto an HDTV) h.264 in realtime via a hardware encoder. 720p30 would of course be preferrable, but the realtime encoding would be much more difficult and the aTV would need updating to support those files, so 540p30 isn't a bad comprimise, imo.

El Gato makes both an ATSC/NTSC/clear QAM tuner dongle and a hardware h.264 encoder (though I believe it maxes out at 480p resolutions it is over a hear old so an updated version could conceivably do just a little bit bigger 960x540 files for the same price). Bundle those both onto a USB device, make the software available as download and install right through the aTV (this would of course need to be handled by Apple) and I'd pay an extra $149-199 for it assuming the TV guide data was free, or at least very cheap, like $10-15 a year.

But, I suppose Apple won't do that because it would cut into iTMS sales, which is probably fairly lucrative for them. Oh well, I'll probably end up with a TiVo HD once they unlock the MPEG4 decoder in it for TiVoGoBack use.
 

BoulderBum

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 3, 2008
513
0
For those who believe that the lack of marketing is one thing limiting the Apple TV, why don't you think Apple is marketing it?

I wonder if a campaign that included 10 free rentals and a downloadable movie or something would help sales along (and get people used to Apple's services).
 

ipedro

macrumors 603
Nov 30, 2004
6,231
8,487
Toronto, ON
^ for the same reason that iPod wasn't advertised initially. :apple:TV is clearly ahead of its time. I think Apple is waiting for all the chess pieces to fall in place. Once they have all the TV and movie contracts worked out and a fairly large library in place, I think Apple will drop the "hobby" title and begin marketing :apple:TV as an iPod for your TV.

Give it one or two more years I think
 

nsbio

macrumors 6502a
Aug 8, 2006
634
0
NC
It is kind of a goofy device as of now, mostly for the lack of content. For example, I wanted to watch three movies earlier this month, and two of them were not available in iTunes store at all, while the third one would only be available as rental in two weeks or so. So how might :apple:TV be useful for me exactly?
 

BoulderBum

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 3, 2008
513
0
^ for the same reason that iPod wasn't advertised initially. :apple:TV is clearly ahead of its time. I think Apple is waiting for all the chess pieces to fall in place. Once they have all the TV and movie contracts worked out and a fairly large library in place, I think Apple will drop the "hobby" title and begin marketing :apple:TV as an iPod for your TV.

Give it one or two more years I think

I'm hoping that the next generation of Apple TV comes out soon, and that they'll market the heck out of it then.

It seems to me that the movie contracts are pretty well worked out (less restrictive DRM and quicker access to all new releases would be nice, though), the TV show selection is lacking indeed, on the other hand. :(

I wonder if the glut of Apple TV competitors enterring the market (PS3 and XBox Gold rentals services, etc.) will drive the adoption of on-demand internet video and make it easier for people to understand what Apple TV is.
 

TomP80

macrumors member
Apr 15, 2008
45
0
Now, I love my appleTV - I use it every day. But I can see exactly why it has not taken off like an ipod, iphone or itunes.

From a marketing perspective, those three are easy sells to the non-technologically competant person.

With the ipod, it directly replaced walkmans/discmans with a significantly better, smaller cooler product that was easy to use.

With the iphone, everyone wanted a phone that had smartphone features - but the offerings from blackberry, nokia etc. were too difficult to use for non-technologically minded people. Apple made internet access, music playing, email and PDA functions EASY on the iphone. Yes, you could do it on other devices, but could your mother or grandmother do it? No.

With itunes, the seller is the content and the ease of use. If you want a PARTICULAR track or album, 99% of the time you know it will be on itunes. Compare that to trawling through a record shop that might or might not have what you are looking for, and the fact you can do it from home, and you have a winner.

Now, the apple TV. What does that make easier for a non-technologically minded person?

Listening to your own music? No. Not unless you have a receiver/speaker setup (which the non-technologically minded person doesn't). Even if they have their content on itunes, they are still more likely to listen to it on either (1) their ipod or (2) at home on their CD-playing stereo. Not on their TV.

Watching their own movies? No. Not when you have to spend hours ripping dvd's and converting them into the correct format. I think for the average person it is still a lot easier to put a DVD into your DVD player and press play.

Using YouTube/Flickr/iTunes Store etc? These are great features on the ATV, but they are not selling points. Not when it is just as easy to use the same functions on your pc or mac.

Purchasing TV shows? Definately not. The average consumer wants to watch TV (currently anyway) by switching on their TV set and watching. It is a fundamentally passive activity - consumers want their TV content to be delivered to them - not to have to decide what content they want to watch.

The one, and possibly only HUGE selling point the ATV has is movie rentals. This is something that the average non-technological person (1) wants to do - they are already renting movies, and have been for years (2) is an improvement over the current way of doing it. It is undeniably easier to download a movie and watch it on your ATV than it is to rent a DVD from blockbuster.

I think Apple realised this as well, and it is why it was the centrepiece of the 2.0 re-take.

From here, it is a marketing problem. I'm in Australia, so I don't know what the situation is like in the US and Europe, but the the marketing for ATV over here is non-existant.

Most non-technologically minded consumers know exactly what and ipod is, and iphone is and most know what itunes it.

Most have no idea what an AppleTV is, why they would want to buy it, and have no idea that you can rent movies with it.

This is a major problem, as downloadable movie rentals is something that everyone is doing - not just apple. All the cable companies, as well as a lot of other providers are going down that path.

There is no clear winner as yet, and if Apple keep up their current marketing strategy it is not going to be them.

iTunes makes movie renting easy. But people don't want to watch rented movies on their computer, most not on their ipod either. Most people want to sit down and watch them on their TV, the way they always have. And Apple has a good, easy to use product that delivers exactly that. The problem is that noone knows it exists.
 

OlBlueHair

macrumors regular
Feb 7, 2008
117
0
I absolutely love my apple tv and use it daily even though I also have eyetv on the mac pro, and dish network hd on the same tv.

That being said, I don't think it has caught on because Appletv is only really great when you either A - rip dvds or B steal **** from the internet. It would be worthless based solely on itunes rentals/purchases in my opinion.

And both of those things, mom and pop don't even know how to do.

Plus, it's too expensive and they don't advertise it.
 

trip1ex

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2008
2,888
1,422
Now, I love my appleTV - I use it every day. But I can see exactly why it has not taken off like an ipod, iphone or itunes.

...


Now, the apple TV. What does that make easier for a non-technologically minded person?

....

The one, and possibly only HUGE selling point the ATV has is movie rentals. This is something that the average non-technological person (1) wants to do - they are already renting movies, and have been for years (2) is an improvement over the current way of doing it. It is undeniably easier to download a movie and watch it on your ATV than it is to rent a DVD from blockbuster.

I think Apple realised this as well, and it is why it was the centrepiece of the 2.0 re-take.
.....
iTunes makes movie renting easy. But people don't want to watch rented movies on their computer, most not on their ipod either. Most people want to sit down and watch them on their TV, the way they always have. And Apple has a good, easy to use product that delivers exactly that. The problem is that noone knows it exists.

Yeah I pretty much agree with you on most of your points.

But I think another reason iTunes took off for music was the $1/song dealio. Content was actually cheaper than you could get in the brick & mortar stores. If you only wanted 2 songs on an album you only paid $2. $1/song is just an easy impulse purchase.

But that's where ATV loses out. You pay more for renting DVDs than through Netflix or from Redbox machines. If content was cheaper or at least in line with what folks pay now I think ATV would take off.

But it is not so it's going to be stuck in the mud.

I just don't think DVDs aren't inconvenient enough for people to spend $230 so they can pay even more to rent movies from their couch.

$230 rents me 230 movies from Redbox. That's 1 movie per week for 4 1/2 years. Maybe you can see why an ATV isn't that tempting for movie rentals.
 

trip1ex

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2008
2,888
1,422
That being said, I don't think it has caught on because Appletv is only really great when you either A - rip dvds or B steal **** from the internet. It would be worthless based solely on itunes rentals/purchases in my opinion.

And both of those things, mom and pop don't even know how to do.

Plus, it's too expensive and they don't advertise it.

Yeah that's it exactly.
 

rafacq

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2007
21
0
But the Netflix player (Roku) has sold even fewer units than the Apple TV.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong here, but the Netflix streaming rentals are all old or B-movies. That's what I remembered of their online service before I cancelled it because of the Apple TV, anyway.

Streaming new releases is a stronger advantage, IMO.

I purchased the netflix Roku box and believe me, its not only old B movies! Lots of foreign, good TV shows (like the Inspector Lynley series in PBS), and even some recent movies are popping up. 10,000 plus videos and growing everyday! Granted, its not HD quality, but considering it comes included in my $8.99/mo subscription... Its really a great buy in my book.

For watching my photos in my TV, my PS3 does a really fine job!
 

rafacq

macrumors newbie
Nov 17, 2007
21
0
$230 rents me 230 movies from Redbox. That's 1 movie per week for 4 1/2 years. Maybe you can see why an ATV isn't that tempting for movie rentals.

Hey you forgot the 2 freebies we are getting every week from RedBox if you subscribe to their SMS Text news service on your cell phone!
 
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