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@Badrottie I had the Samsung Galaxy Tab S 10.5 While the screen was amazing and I could do some basic web browsing, the fact is that the Play Store doesn't have anywhere close to the tablet-optimized apps that iOS has. I personally really love my Note 5, but there is a HUGE disparity in the quality of apps that the Play Store provides for phones compared to tablets. Most phone apps are almost as good, if not just as good, as their iOS counterparts. For Android tablets, that is not the case whatsoever. They don't even have some basic tablet apps like Facebook (at least not a good version).

@Fancuku I bought the SP4 because initially I wanted something that could at least 90% replace my laptop. I actually was super excited to get it. It was just the more I used it, the more I realized that I used it more like a laptop and at that point, I'd rather use my rMBP. The tablet experience for me on the SP4 was just very lackluster, as was the battery life.

To all the other posts, like I said in my original post, one size doesn't fit all. I never intimated that everyone should buy an iPad Pro, either. I think what a lot of people will find out if they are looking for a true laptop replacement is that there just is none. The SP4 can replace a laptop, but it's not quite as refined as a true laptop. The iPad Pro, for me, seems to be a really good medium. I suspect a lot of people will end up either keeping their laptop or using the iPad. However, that doesn't mean that the SP4 is a terrible device. It's actually quite good. I'm just not convinced it fit into my workflow the way I was hoping. I guess over the last few years, I realized how much more I used a tablet than I do a laptop unless it's for something I need heavier lifting for.

And for Apple fan bias, I like to think I'm fairly objective. I've been super critical over Apple the last few years, especially with their iOS platform on phones starting to feel antiquated, but I'm sitting here with my Note 5, a Huawei watch, an iPad Pro and a rMBP. I choose products that I feel fit my daily life well. That's not to say I'm right and others are wrong. Again, to each their own. My post was simply to give my opinion for those who may be comparing the two products and to share my experience. In the end, aren't all of these devices pretty awesome? Think where we were 10 years ago. I feel fortunate to have the ability to choose between these great devices.
 
@aevan Again, to each their own. I personally feel like the OS hasn't really done anything groundbreaking in years for phones. Its ecosystem is defined by their amazing app support. Apple has put some good features on their phones, but nothing that Android hasn't had for the most part. When I look at the original iPhone OS compared to today, it still looks very similar. I would gladly go back to an iPhone if they did some things that felt fresh and new. But, I digress. That's for another forum.
 
When people mentioned that the SP4 does not provide good tablet experience, what exactly does that mean? What so bad about its tablet mode?
 
@peterpan123 The tablet experience being that Microsoft's app store is very lackluster. While desktop apps are awesome, they aren't touch optimized. Holding the SP4 in one hand, for me, was uncomfortable as well.
 
That's not what I said, of course not everyone should buy an iPad Pro. I was saying that from my usuage the iPad Pro has replaced my laptop and I believe that Tim Cook was right when he said this. The Surface is a confused product that isn't best at anything, I'm not the only one to have said this, many Surface users have said so. .
So much surface misinformation at MR
 
Seems to me like Apple fan bias. Put your iMac, rMBP ( which I have) etc away and use your iPad Pro for a month then get back to me

So basically, if you don't choose something that's not Apple, it's Apple fan bias. Got it.

Does every iPad Pro owner have to use a Surface too and then choose between the two? Because honestly I have no interest in using a Surface (or using Windows outside of work, where I have no choice). It's unfortunate that "real work" is being defined as anything that can't be done on iOS or an iPad. Or that there somehow has to be this competition between iPad and Surface and one has to beat the other.

There's no need to justify what you like. I get crap all the time about having a ton of Apple devices. I couldn't care less since they aren't paying for my enjoyment. I like competition and the Surface Pro/Book are excellent devices, but I'd much rather have the OS and performance of my 15" rMBP. I'm also currently building a new PC for gaming right now. I like having a Windows PC over my iMac for gaming.

@aevan Again, to each their own. I personally feel like the OS hasn't really done anything groundbreaking in years for phones. Its ecosystem is defined by their amazing app support. Apple has put some good features on their phones, but nothing that Android hasn't had for the most part. When I look at the original iPhone OS compared to today, it still looks very similar. I would gladly go back to an iPhone if they did some things that felt fresh and new. But, I digress. That's for another forum.

Other than the widgets, customization and a few gimmicky features, there is little Android has to offer now I'd say. Each passing year iOS seems to add a lot more useful features and become more open while i still get to have the app ecosystem and long-term support of iOS. Sure, SOME Android devices may have had some of these features before, but now I get the best of both worlds on iOS as Apple continues to add features. Plus, Apple is pretty much destroying the competition on the tablet front.(In terms of Android vs iOS)
 
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Can't disagree with you about them winning the tablet front. For me, the customizations and widgets are a big part of what I like. I will say, I like where Apple is going though. They seem to be more open than they were before. There's a good chance I'll be back to an iPhone at some point. Just hasn't come yet. I'm not someone who picks based on brand. I pick based on product. One thing I'll always give Apple credit for - their hardware design/quality is second to none.
 
To me it is simple... If you have to only have one as all of your computing power, you are WAY better off with a SP4. If you have a computer already, and are looking for a companion device, an IPP will be better. There is no way an IPP can replace all your computing needs, where as a SP4 may be able to.

The OP admitted that the SP4 wasn't as good of a laptop as a MBP, well yes, but how well does a MBP act like a tablet? Would you say that what the SP4 lacks in being a laptop beats what the MBP lacks in being a tablet? Because to me, if I had a MBP, I would still need an IPP, but I could easily survive with only a SP4...

I have a Windows based desktop with dual monitors, 3 6TB internal HDs, and dual bluray burners. In total it cost me $1k. There are no apple products in that price point that can do what these all do, now when I want portable (90% of the time), I use an iPad (now an IPP). To me, even a MBP lacks in what a real computer is, it is a portable solution without the heavy lifting of a desktop.

If anything, tablets have put people of the need of a laptop. Most people would be much better off with a powerful desktop (that will last YEARS longer than any laptop) and a tablet to be portable. You can even remote into your desktop on the road (free with windows professional editions, or using free software like Teamviewer).

EDIT: This was in no way meant to be an attack on anyone (especially the OP). Just my thoughts.
 
My major deciding factor for iPad Pro is writing.

I have iPad Pro and I think it's the best tablet I ever owned - I also have iPad Air 2 but the native support for writing is what made me get iPad Pro and I would love it be implemented in iPad Air 3. iPad Pro is a bit too big but it's definitely packing a punch.

I took a look at Surface Pro and decided against it. The writing doesn't feel "right" to me. The fact that it runs a Windows OS makes it inefficient for tablet usage. The Surface Pro is too heavy and looks awkward while iPad Pro is much thinner, lighter and cleaner.

I am still using Windows laptop for programming (which I do for a living) but I am finding myself using iPad Pro a lot for note taking, reading, and making videos. I find editing videos much easier on iPad Pro than on my Mac. Since I do web programming and don't need compilers, I could develop on iPad Pro but I don't see that as being efficient. Maybe I should give it a try this time with iPad Pro.

I am glad Apple now supports iCloud drive on iOS devices. It's much needed for productivity use and makes it easier to manage files. Of course, that requires the apps to be able to support the iCloud drive.
 
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I use my SP4 as a notepad with pen. A web browser with touch. And, most importantly, a photo editing machine with the pen only (no keyboard attached) in Lightroom, then Photoshop.

Those are 3 huge advantages for me over an ordinary Windows laptop, which my SP4 is the rest of the time.

The photography work using only a pen on my lap is the game changer for me.

The game changer on the iPad Pro is artwork (as long as you aren't locked into Adobe's desktop ecosystem).

If you aren't going to draw, take notes, or need a giant screen, you are most likely good to get an Air 2 over the Pro.

If you aren't going to edit photos (or some other very specific personal need), take notes, or need a very slim device, you are most likely good to get another Windows laptop over the SP4.

They ARE two VERY different devices and they both operate within niches and they both appeal to masses out of being slick, whether they truly need them or not.
 
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Does every iPad Pro owner have to use a Surface too and then choose between the two? Because honestly I have no interest in using a Surface (or using Windows outside of work, where I have no choice). It's unfortunate that "real work" is being defined as anything that can't be done on iOS or an iPad. Or that there somehow has to be this competition between iPad and Surface and one has to beat the other.
I myself prefer to use devices that I enjoy using first and foremost. Then I decide if I figure out how I can do work with them. That's just me though. I have to like the device to put in the time and effort....
 
Well, I find FULL browsing on the Surface Pro 4 way better. I also prefer REAL YouTube and not the app. In fact I also like REAL apps. When a full computer finally is possible and acceptable to use ALSO as a tablet and you can avoid apps - then I am happy.
 
Id argue that Apple needs to change its mindset if they want to make a pro level device. The restrictions on iOS have helped people of all ages to come to their devices and learn how to use them quickly and easily. But now this operating system needs to grow up for the iPad pro.

I have changed the way I work to do it apples way for years because the iPad and the iPhone have been the best devices for me (build, screen, reliability, app selection etc). But I've personally been patient and have been waiting for iOS to mature and allow greater freedom to allow me to use the device how I want. The iPad pro could have been the beginning of this change but no, the restrictions are now a huge hinderance for this device.

Split screen is not true multi tasking how I want it. I can't even run the same app side by side.

If we can have a stylus (pencil) then why not mouse support?

Why does the pencil only operate in some parts of the OS but not all of it?

Large screen, larger area for apps to expanded into? No, lots and lots of wasted space. Can I resize to suit my use? No everything is fixed and formatted how Apple want.

Just some examples that made me feel annoyed with the pro and made me realise today this is just a bigger iPad (that is twice the price). But if you are an artist or designer this is your new Wacom device replacement that is also a capable portable tablet for less than a cintiq.

You had me right up to the words "mouse support", then I had to sadly shake my head and not finish reading your post & discount your opinion entirely. =(
If someone seriously can't understand why a mouse literally CANNOT act exactly the same as fingers & thus.... every single app would have to be rewritten to have two modes, a "touch" mode and a "mouse" mode & comprehend the disgusting horrible headaches and difficulties associated with that, and the teeny tiny return on convenience... well, I have a hard time listening to anything they have to say tech related.
Seriously... think long and hard about how realistically "adding mouse support" would come about, how many years it would take, how significantly iOS would have to change (I mean it would genuinely be unrecognizable, comparatively), how all apps and user behaviors would have to change, and let me know again if you still believe that Tim, Phil, and everybody else at Apple are wrong, and that this "mouse tablet" is really the wise direction in any way, shape, or form.
 
You had me right up to the words "mouse support", then I had to sadly shake my head and not finish reading your post & discount your opinion entirely. =(
If someone seriously can't understand why a mouse literally CANNOT act exactly the same as fingers & thus.... every single app would have to be rewritten to have two modes, a "touch" mode and a "mouse" mode & comprehend the disgusting horrible headaches and difficulties associated with that, and the teeny tiny return on convenience... well, I have a hard time listening to anything they have to say tech related.
Seriously... think long and hard about how realistically "adding mouse support" would come about, how many years it would take, how significantly iOS would have to change (I mean it would genuinely be unrecognizable, comparatively), how all apps and user behaviors would have to change, and let me know again if you still believe that Tim, Phil, and everybody else at Apple are wrong, and that this "mouse tablet" is really the wise direction in any way, shape, or form.

No app have to be rewritten if the mouse have very few gestures. Not different to point and click than touch - except point and click is better and you won't have to lift your whole arm.

You would only need Magic Mouse like gestures for expose and app closing.

How can people not see that?

No changes to iOS is needed either. In fact, I would be a hundred times more happy for my iPad, if it could use a mouse - and it would be possible without any interface changes.
 
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@peterpan123 The tablet experience being that Microsoft's app store is very lackluster. While desktop apps are awesome, they aren't touch optimized. Holding the SP4 in one hand, for me, was uncomfortable as well.

Thanks. For tablet mode, I only use app for web browsing and pdf annotation. In this case, do I need to concern about the tablet experience some users are concerned with?
 
You had me right up to the words "mouse support", then I had to sadly shake my head and not finish reading your post & discount your opinion entirely. =(
If someone seriously can't understand why a mouse literally CANNOT act exactly the same as fingers & thus.... every single app would have to be rewritten to have two modes, a "touch" mode and a "mouse" mode & comprehend the disgusting horrible headaches and difficulties associated with that, and the teeny tiny return on convenience... well, I have a hard time listening to anything they have to say tech related.
Seriously... think long and hard about how realistically "adding mouse support" would come about, how many years it would take, how significantly iOS would have to change (I mean it would genuinely be unrecognizable, comparatively), how all apps and user behaviors would have to change, and let me know again if you still believe that Tim, Phil, and everybody else at Apple are wrong, and that this "mouse tablet" is really the wise direction in any way, shape, or form.


Mouse support's been in Android for ages. Works fine and I doubt Google had to break their backs doing it. The benefits it gives you when editing text, for example, is enormous. Sure, when using the device in your hands it's not needed but some of us (particularly writers) like to plonk our iPads on a table and use them as mini workstations.
 
It's a complete joke that anything Microsoft could build will rival Apple. Maybe in 10 years. Apple has been doing this way longer. Microsoft is totally new at hardware, and there software has never been fantastic. It's offensive for them to compare that piece of junk Surface to anything Apple has made in the last 7 years. It's junk. They have good marketing. Period. Some people like junk. Whatever. It's a free world.
 
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It's a complete joke that anything Microsoft could build will rival Apple. Maybe in 10 years. Apple has been doing this way longer. Microsoft is totally new at hardware, and there software has never been fantastic. It's offensive for them to compare that piece of junk Surface to anything Apple has made in the last 7 years. It's junk. They have good marketing. Period.

Have you honestly used one?

EDIT: MS jumped into console game, and beat the hell out of Sony... Don't just assume they don't know how to build hardware.
 
It's a complete joke that anything Microsoft could build will rival Apple. Maybe in 10 years. Apple has been doing this way longer. Microsoft is totally new at hardware, and there software has never been fantastic. It's offensive for them to compare that piece of junk Surface to anything Apple has made in the last 7 years. It's junk. They have good marketing. Period.

Yes, Microsoft may suck at hardware, and their software has never been fantastic, taking Windows as an example. I too agree that Mac OS is much more reliable and maintenance free.

But Apple suck at their office productivity apps; i.e., iWorks. MS Office may not be reliable and frustrating to use, but it offers so many more features compare to Apple's alternative.

Speaking of ink, now that Apple has the iPad Pro, why the heck did they not invest in upgrading their Pages and Keynote to support inking? Instead, they get Microsoft to do it, and of course they are taking their time...
 
Yes, Microsoft may suck at hardware, and their software has never been fantastic, taking Windows as an example.

I would easily say that Windows XP, 7, and so far 10 have been fantastic. The areas where the OS' seem to fail is 3rd party hardware drivers that are not MS certified (Apple has the same problem)...
 
Though not as well. I may be able to run a desktop app in tablet mode on a Surface Pro, but I will unlikely want to get any work done that way. You can give me the best apps on the Windows platform, but if the user experience sucks, I am not going to use it, plain and simple.

In the case of the iPad, the touch interface enables its functionality. The apps may be simpler and arguably less capable, but because I am willing to use those apps in the manner prescribed by Apple, I actually end up getting more work done this way.



And real work is, as usual, conveniently defined as anything which the iPad cannot do.

I personally think that the greatest hurdle here is not just iOS, but also our own mindset and our own reluctance to move beyond the mode of desktop computing and reimagine our workflows for a modern tablet interface.

Agreed. A simple example is multitasking on both devices. Of course Surface can run any number of programs at the same time, and you can configure the Windows however you want. However, this can be a pain on a 13 inch screen, realistically you don't want more than two windows open at once anyway, probably side by side. Then you have the toolbar on the bottom cutting off additional screen space, and app headers etc.

I have to say by comparison, multitasking on the iPad is downright brilliant. Slide over and split screen are so well integrated on iOS. The way apps automatically reconfigure from slide over to split screen, the way the grammar of slide over is reflected when you close apps and the "main' app collapses downward and the second app slides over to the side from where you pulled it out. It just maximizes the screen space and use efficiency and feels so natural and effective. The only downside is limited support at present, which is honestly a concern for me going forward.

The iPad has limitations in terms of functionality, but the overall user experience is without peer IMO. I really can't wait to see where Apple takes it in the future, because every release adds awesome feature expansions that add "desktop" functionality in a way that is totally natural on a touch based device.
 
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My major deciding factor for iPad Pro is writing.

I have iPad Pro and I think it's the best tablet I ever owned - I also have iPad Air 2 but the native support for writing is what made me get iPad Pro and I would love it be implemented in iPad Air 3. iPad Pro is a bit too big but it's definitely packing a punch.

I took a look at Surface Pro and decided against it. The writing doesn't feel "right" to me. The fact that it runs a Windows OS makes it inefficient for tablet usage. The Surface Pro is too heavy and looks awkward while iPad Pro is much thinner, lighter and cleaner.

It's the superior polling rate of the iPad. It's absolutely insane how well it captures quick, small print so perfectly, Surface doesn't come close.
 
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