why is 13" = low end, 17" = high end? imo opposite

[reebzor]

The only unexplainable thing to me is why all the MBP's don't have the same CPU options. Other than the 17" being a whopping 270mhz faster than the 13" I don't see the big deal. Oh, no discrete GPU? Explain to me how you'd like to fit it in there... Other than that, I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the 17" was so much more "high end" than the 13"

 

[Vyruz Reaper]

Personally, the extra real estate on the 17" is ideal in situations when I have to be out of town for a week or so on business. the 13" I have right now just isn't large enough for gaming.

Until I have it hooked up to my 24".

So if you think about it, there COULD be a market for 17" performance in a 13" form factor. All it takes is a spare screen ^^

No, the 13s screen size is adequate, not perfect but big enough. The PROBLEM is that the resolution is too low. We need something like 1440 or 1600 x 900 -> that would make the world of a difference

 

[Sanderr]

The only unexplainable thing to me is why all the MBP's don't have the same CPU options. Other than the 17" being a whopping 270mhz faster than the 13" I don't see the big deal. Oh, no discrete GPU? Explain to me how you'd like to fit it in there... Other than that, I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the 17" was so much more "high end" than the 13"

Faster clock speeds equal more heat generation. The 13" case probably cannot dissipate the heat with the current cooling technology used in the 13" MBP.

 

[enberg]

I don't think the screen resoulution will grow much until OS X is resolution independent. 1440x900 maybe, but not much bigger.

 

[DanBUK]

The 12" PB had a graphics card that was obsolete the day it came out (and way worse relative to the competition than the 9400M is today), a very low memory capacity, slow CPUs, no FW800 port, and no expansion slot.

It was at least as crippled compared to the 17" PBs of its day as the 13" MBP is compared to today's 17" MBP. At least the 13" MBP will take 8 GB of RAM and has a relatively fast CPU in the upper configuration.

I have a 13" with lots of RAM and an Intel SSD and it does things only a Mac Pro could have done three years ago.

How can you rewrite history so flagrantly?! You have desacrated something almost holy! The 12" Powerbook remains a unique creation- the small size came at a premium and they had the same processor as the desktops of the time.

In 2004, I bought the 1Ghz model, it stayed competitive for nearly 4 years. Only Leopard really slowed it and it still capable performs as a light use machine. The keyboard will never be bettered (chicklet? -pah!) and the design and compactness was years ahead of it's time.

If Apple put the same emphasis on the smallest model this coming update, I will be tempted. As it stands, I am going for a 15 incher.

 

[reallynotnick]

I can't wait for Apple to abolish the optical drive in their laptops, the amount of space it takes up is ridiculous. If you removed it you make the laptop smaller, lighter, have dedicated graphics, faster CPU, a second HDD, more ports on the right side or a bigger battery, or maybe some sort of the mix of the above. The only time I use an optical drive is when I am at my desk so I wouldn't mind having an external that I would pull out like 3 times a year.

 

[Maserati7200]

Yeah, think of what they could do with the 13" if they lost the superdrive, who uses that? Except for the occasional reinstall of the OS or installing some software, give the option of a $100 external for those who need it

Please apple PLEASE do so!

no one needs a build in optical drive anymore let it just be usb like on the air

I use it everyday. I'd rather not have to lug around a USB CD drive. If you don't want an optical drive, fine. Leave it as an option, but don't take it away from those who need it.

 

[hundert]

Hi,

I want to share my experience:

I have

17 inch Macbook Pro 2.4 8600GT

and

15 inch Macbook Pro 2.2 8600GT


And I had an access to 13 macbook (not pro), so I am familiar with it and its weight and specs like it is my own. Plus, I think it can be directly compared to 13MBP

17
+Very good sound, no need for extra loudspeakers, except you always use headphones.
+Stays VERY VERY cool, WAY cooler thant 15 inch or 13.
+VERY silent
+no need for extra screen, even at home. Graphic designers of course would need a bigger screen, and FINAL CUT PRO users would only need an extra monitor (they use two at the same time). 15 and 13 models would need two extra monitors (is it possible?), because 15 and 13 are way to small to handle a part of final cut.
+large battery
+monitor accepts large resolutions
+very good insides

-big and heavy
-expensive

15
+Smaller, lighter than 17, but still big to carry around
+more sutable for students
+good performance

+- 15" is still acceptable, but in some cases an external moni would be a big help

-Loud
-Hot
-bad sound, headphones or loudspeakers is a must.

13
+very portable, light and small.
+good power under a small case, but usually not enough for professional use
+cheap

+-good for college - but this is not what macs are used for. There is a reason why professionals choose mac over win, when it comes to photo editing, drawing, video cutting.

-by no way something you use with final cut pro or photoshop. You can, but with an external monitor only and sometimes, when you need TWO screen simultaneously, 13 inch will only hinder you.
-loud
-hot
-bad sound
-performance is not on "mac" level

CONCLUSION
Now, if to remove the weight and the portability from the conclusion, and have these laptops compete here on my desk, or your desk, 17 inch is the most comfortable to work with. When it comes to watching movies, photoshoping, playing games, the best at it is no doubt 17 inch. It stays cool n quiet, big, but possible to carry around. 15 inches is something inbetween, still a monster, but has its minuses. It is almost as big as 17 when it comes to portability. Despite smaller weight and size, I still have troubles carrying it around. 13 is portability friendly, but unfortunately for me, it is not more than just a net book.

1place 17
2p 15
3p 13

Thank you

 

[kolax]

Jibberish

I doubt you have owned either of the two machines.

17" MBP being "VERY silent" and the 15" being "LOUD" ..?

Blah..

 

[hundert]

Jibberish/QUOTE]

I doubt you have owned either of the two machines.

17" MBP being "VERY silent" and the 15" being "LOUD" ..?

Blah..

I can send you a picture of me at my 15 sitting right now. My 17 is at apple store, because 8600GT failed. I will get it Tuesday or Wed and I will have no problems sending you a pic of those two.

Yes, 15 is very loud if fans hit 6000 rpm, simply because 1. they hit 6000 more often than 17 and 2. because fans are smaller.


Now, if you bought yout mbp to check emails, then they are of course all equally loud.

 

[kolax]

If your 15" fans are revving up to 6000rpm a lot (even with low CPU usage) then they are clogged up with dust, meaning the air flow is poor thus having to go to a higher rpm.

I mean your post.. it is just full of jibberish! You claiming the 13" MBP performance is not on "mac level".

 

[hundert]

If your 15" fans are revving up to 6000rpm a lot (even with low CPU usage) then they are clogged up with dust, meaning the air flow is poor thus having to go to a higher rpm.

I mean your post.. it is just full of jibberish! You claiming the 13" MBP performance is not on "mac level".

You made two posts, and neither of them had any arguments attached to the "jibberish" statement. Read your own posts. You never said why is it jibberish. You going to school already?

13MBP is a very bad laptop, when it comes to performance. It performs way slower than mid 2007 models. Enough for you to check emails, of course.

I have never mentioned 6000rpm at low CPU usage. When did I do it? My mac is clean inside and with new thermal grease applied. Cleaned 3 weeks ago.

Everything I wrote in the post, can be backed up by thousand other reviews across the internet, both commercial and user made.

Really, go ahead and read your posts again: that I have never owned any of those. Jesus Christ! Go watch a movie or something and don't steal time from people who need it!

 

[kolax]

So the 13" MBP is a very bad laptop when it comes to performance? And how are you measuring this exactly?

To quote you, "enough to check your emails". You really think the 13" MBP is only good enough to check emails?

 

[hundert]

So the 13" MBP is a very bad laptop when it comes to performance? And how are you measuring this exactly?

To quote you, "enough to check your emails". You really think the 13" MBP is only good enough to check emails?

You measure a speed of a laptop doing tests. The speed of a computer is measured in hz, fps, GB/s, sec and other custom units like 3D Mark.

You can use:
3D Max Rendering
Photoshop filter rendering
3DMark
Games
Cinebench
Encoding/Transcoding in iTunes, DivX
SisoftSandra
WinRAR
PCMark
Cinema4D
Maya


Any software, even AntiViruses to a certain level, can measure a performance of a laptop. GTA4 has an inbuilt performance measurer.

Well, that's how you test performance!


Emails: in the very first post. Yes.
If you are referring to the post you quoted. No.

It is a rethorical figure called exaggeration, I used it only in the very first post.
In the post you quoted, my intention was to reduce you to an email user, because it is usually someone, whos laptop would never get hot or fans would never go loud.

 

[Sanderr]

You measure a speed of a laptop doing tests. The speed of a computer is measured in hz, fps, GB/s, sec and other custom units like 3D Mark.

You can use:
3D Max Rendering
Photoshop filter rendering
3DMark
Games
Cinebench
Encoding/Transcoding in iTunes, DivX
SisoftSandra
WinRAR
PCMark
Cinema4D
Maya


Any software, even AntiViruses to a certain level, can measure a performance of a laptop. GTA4 has an inbuilt performance measurer.

Well, that's how you test performance!


Emails: in the very first post. Yes.
If you are referring to the post you quoted. No.

It is a rethorical figure called exaggeration, I used it only in the very first post.
In the post you quoted, my intention was to reduce you to an email user, because it is usually someone, whos laptop would never get hot or fans would never go loud.

old news. now give me scores of the top end 13" and the low end 15". Ain't gonna be much of a difference.

 

[hundert]

old news. now give me scores of the top end 13" and the low end 15". Ain't gonna be much of a difference.

Taking my conversation out of context, you are right. But you compare two nearly identical laptops. I was talking about completely different laptops!

Low end 15 has the same processor and graphics card as 13 has. Same amount of Ram and the same HDD inside.

Both have:
Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB Memory
160GB hard drive1 250GB hard drive1
SD card slot SD card slot
Built-in 7-hour battery2 Built-in 7-hour battery2
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics


People, please stay in context.

 

[ARF900]

Hi,

I want to share my experience:

I have

17 inch Macbook Pro 2.4 8600GT

and

15 inch Macbook Pro 2.2 8600GT


And I had an access to 13 macbook (not pro), so I am familiar with it and its weight and specs like it is my own. Plus, I think it can be directly compared to 13MBP

17
+Very good sound, no need for extra loudspeakers, except you always use headphones.
+Stays VERY VERY cool, WAY cooler thant 15 inch or 13.
+VERY silent
+no need for extra screen, even at home. Graphic designers of course would need a bigger screen, and FINAL CUT PRO users would only need an extra monitor (they use two at the same time). 15 and 13 models would need two extra monitors (is it possible?), because 15 and 13 are way to small to handle a part of final cut.
+large battery
+monitor accepts large resolutions
+very good insides

-big and heavy
-expensive

15
+Smaller, lighter than 17, but still big to carry around
+more sutable for students
+good performance

+- 15" is still acceptable, but in some cases an external moni would be a big help

-Loud
-Hot
-bad sound, headphones or loudspeakers is a must.

13
+very portable, light and small.
+good power under a small case, but usually not enough for professional use
+cheap

+-good for college - but this is not what macs are used for. There is a reason why professionals choose mac over win, when it comes to photo editing, drawing, video cutting.

-by no way something you use with final cut pro or photoshop. You can, but with an external monitor only and sometimes, when you need TWO screen simultaneously, 13 inch will only hinder you.
-loud
-hot
-bad sound
-performance is not on "mac" level

CONCLUSION
Now, if to remove the weight and the portability from the conclusion, and have these laptops compete here on my desk, or your desk, 17 inch is the most comfortable to work with. When it comes to watching movies, photoshoping, playing games, the best at it is no doubt 17 inch. It stays cool n quiet, big, but possible to carry around. 15 inches is something inbetween, still a monster, but has its minuses. It is almost as big as 17 when it comes to portability. Despite smaller weight and size, I still have troubles carrying it around. 13 is portability friendly, but unfortunately for me, it is not more than just a net book.

1place 17
2p 15
3p 13

Thank you

the 13" is not loud or hot unless your using the disc drive, it also has very good performance. Its sound is above average, the 15 and 17" MBP have the best sound I have ever heard on a laptop by far, so they make the 13" look weak, but really, its pretty good. by no means is the 13" a netbook, I guess it all comes down to preference, personally for me I like my LAPtop on my LAP, and I think anything bigger than 13" cumbersome and heavy. Laptops are meant to be a home away from home, I dont use my 13" as my primary computer.

 

[Sanderr]

Taking my conversation out of context, you are right. But you compare two nearly identical laptops. I was talking about completely different laptops!

Low end 15 has the same processor and graphics card as 13 has. Same amount of Ram and the same HDD inside.

Both have:
Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB Memory
160GB hard drive1 250GB hard drive1
SD card slot SD card slot
Built-in 7-hour battery2 Built-in 7-hour battery2
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics


People, please stay in context.

That is exactly what I mean, you were saying the 13" is bad by any means. You're right with the fact that Apple won't supply the high-end hardware in the 13". Does this mean you can choose for a more powerful 15 or 17" solution? Yes. Does this necessarily make the 13" bad? No, just not as powerful as the 15 & 17"

 

[Scorch07]

Obviously there are the size limitations already mentioned, but I also disagree with who needs what. There are very good reasons for people to need bigger screens. I do a good bit of video and photo editing, so a bigger screen is a HUGE benefit for me. I've tried running FCP on a 13"... It's not so fun. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but most people suited to 13"s are mostly doing more lightweight work, and thus don't really need the extra power. The people that need the extra power are the ones that also need bigger screen. 15 is definitely the sweet spot for me.

I'm not saying I don't like options or anything, but Apple has always tried to keep their product lines pretty simple. Adding crazy options everywhere would make the store very complex, which just isn't Apple. On the whole I think they've done a very good job of getting the best stuff at the right price points.

As for the optical drive, if they take it out, I will not be buying it. I use mine constantly. I'm going to keep buying hard media as long as I possibly can. Apple's stand for downloadable media is the one thing I have consistently been against them on.

 

[hundert]

the 13" is not loud or hot unless your using the disc drive, it also has very good performance. Its sound is above average, the 15 and 17" MBP have the best sound I have ever heard on a laptop by far, so they make the 13" look weak, but really, its pretty good.

13 gets very hot, when cpu stays loaded at 100% for some time and especially hot, if the graphics card is in heavy use.

if you are doing some simple stuff, neither of the mentioned laptops gets warm...

I totaly agree about sound, compared to laptops of different brands . I had Dell vostro 1400 and Dell Studio 15, the sound was not worth listening to

 

[Scorch07]

Hi,

I want to share my experience:

I have

17 inch Macbook Pro 2.4 8600GT

and

15 inch Macbook Pro 2.2 8600GT


And I had an access to 13 macbook (not pro), so I am familiar with it and its weight and specs like it is my own. Plus, I think it can be directly compared to 13MBP

17
+Very good sound, no need for extra loudspeakers, except you always use headphones.
+Stays VERY VERY cool, WAY cooler thant 15 inch or 13.
+VERY silent
+no need for extra screen, even at home. Graphic designers of course would need a bigger screen, and FINAL CUT PRO users would only need an extra monitor (they use two at the same time). 15 and 13 models would need two extra monitors (is it possible?), because 15 and 13 are way to small to handle a part of final cut.
+large battery
+monitor accepts large resolutions
+very good insides

-big and heavy
-expensive

15
+Smaller, lighter than 17, but still big to carry around
+more sutable for students
+good performance

+- 15" is still acceptable, but in some cases an external moni would be a big help

-Loud
-Hot
-bad sound, headphones or loudspeakers is a must.

13
+very portable, light and small.
+good power under a small case, but usually not enough for professional use
+cheap

+-good for college - but this is not what macs are used for. There is a reason why professionals choose mac over win, when it comes to photo editing, drawing, video cutting.

-by no way something you use with final cut pro or photoshop. You can, but with an external monitor only and sometimes, when you need TWO screen simultaneously, 13 inch will only hinder you.
-loud
-hot
-bad sound
-performance is not on "mac" level

CONCLUSION
Now, if to remove the weight and the portability from the conclusion, and have these laptops compete here on my desk, or your desk, 17 inch is the most comfortable to work with. When it comes to watching movies, photoshoping, playing games, the best at it is no doubt 17 inch. It stays cool n quiet, big, but possible to carry around. 15 inches is something inbetween, still a monster, but has its minuses. It is almost as big as 17 when it comes to portability. Despite smaller weight and size, I still have troubles carrying it around. 13 is portability friendly, but unfortunately for me, it is not more than just a net book.

1place 17
2p 15
3p 13

Thank you

I use Final Cut with my 15 and a single external all the time with no problems. I also use it by itself a pretty good bit.

 

[hundert]

As for the optical drive, if they take it out, I will not be buying it. I use mine constantly. I'm going to keep buying hard media as long as I possibly can. Apple's stand for downloadable media is the one thing I have consistently been against them on.

I am not attacking you, but, if it is not too personal: what are you using the optical drive for?

I, personally, prefer big flash drives. Faster, smaller, lighter, bigger space. I barely use mine. Maybe 10 times a year, while flash stick 300 times a year.

Optical drive takes up like a one forth of a 15 inch laptop, I'd personally would be more than happy to get rid of it, AT LEAST as an option.



I also use the 15inch one with an extrnal 19 (dont have nothing better), it is ok, but not as it is with 17. While 13 is possible to use, I dont feel comfortable cutting stuff on that one.

 

[Jamo12]

I'd be okay with Apple taking out the optical drives and giving us the FREE external SuperDrive that you have to buy with the MacBook Air. (Because Apple would totally give us a free optical drive)

 

[Scorch07]

I am not attacking you, but, if it is not too personal: what are you using the optical drive for?

I, personally, prefer big flash drives. Faster, smaller, lighter, bigger space. I barely use mine. Maybe 10 times a year, while flash stick 300 times a year.

Optical drive takes up like a one forth of a 15 inch laptop, I'd personally would be more than happy to get rid of it, AT LEAST as an option.



I also use the 15inch one with an extrnal 19 (dont have nothing better), it is ok, but not as it is with 17. While 13 is possible to use, I dont feel comfortable cutting stuff on that one.

Oh believe me for normal file operations I'm all for big flash drives and such (have a 16 gigger in my pocket pretty much all the time). I guess my main use of it is for music (I still get CDs vs. buying on iTunes and such), and I have to burn DVDs on a pretty much weekly basis at my internship at my church. Yes, our main system is computer based but we still use DVDs for some other stuff.

 

[shambo]

For complete portability power and performance (which I call the 15"3P's) all wrapped up in solid bad boy loveliness you need the 15 incher.