why is 13" = low end, 17" = high end? imo opposite

[mingoglia]

I doubt anyone will agree with me but I think the 13" MBP should be discontinued. I think the 13" should be a standard MacBook as the size limitation and performance is IMHO not up to the "professional" level. I believe the 15" is about the right size. I've carried one for many years in the business world.

Right now I'm using a 17", and yeah, it's big. I decided to buy a stripped down laptop case and carry less with me. Ultimately my bag is now lighter than it was with a 15. It's all a sacrifice I guess.

After traveling for the first time with the 17" though I found out that it's almost too big to use on a plane if you're flying coach like most of us do. By "almost" I mean it WAS too big. Luckily I didn't have any work to do and was just watching Lost on DVD. I had to have the screen somewhat tilted forward which was ok for watching a DVD, but wouldn't have worked for working on the plane. I'll likely buy a Air for when traveling and just load movies/shows on the HDD if I want to watch something while flying.

 

[chaosbunny]

Why have to use that outdated way of storage just because a few wanna use it? . Better to make it external so the few who uses it every day can still have one. And for a 13" that is not really a desktop replacement it makes no sense to have that **** internal.

Why remove it just because a few want it to be removed?

I doubt you'd find much support for a drive less laptop as a main machine outside a tech community like this.

It would be great as an option for everyone to be happy - but we all know how apple likes options...

 

[Davidkoh]

Why remove it just because a few want it to be removed?

I doubt you'd find much support for a drive less laptop as a main machine outside a tech community like this.

It would be great as an option for everyone to be happy - but we all know how apple likes options...

I am pretty sure that most users use it on their 13" rarely. Even less use it "on the go", and even less use it "on the go" every day. Technology is moving forward

 

[IgnatiusTheKing]

I am pretty sure that most users use it on their 13" rarely. Even less use it "on the go", and even less use it "on the go" every day. Technology is moving forward

Do you have any statistics to back this up? I have a MBA and rarely see the need for an optical drive, but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that most people don't want/need one. If that was truly the case, wouldn't there be more 13" laptops out there without it?

 

[Davidkoh]

Do you have any statistics to back this up? I have a MBA and rarely see the need for an optical drive, but I'm not sure I agree with the idea that most people don't want/need one. If that was truly the case, wouldn't there be more 13" laptops out there without it?

Nop, just some small studies among people I know . Most people I know do not install things every day . I never said people do not need one, I said they rarely need them, for installs and such.

 

[chaosbunny]

Nop, just some small studies among people I know . Most people I know do not install things every day . I never said people do not need one, I said they rarely need them, for installs and such.

Well, most people I know use it to convert or play their music CDs, or play a DVD while on holiday or business trip, or burn music/picture CDs for their friends etc. They just have their laptops on their desks and wouldn't like any more clutter.

 

[Dan73]

Well the 15" and 17" can get pretty much the same options, so for the most part they're on the same level.

As for the 13"... I would buy one without a CD drive but discrete graphics instead.

 

[MacModMachine]

who said the 17" was the high end?

all of the macbook pro lines are high end.

thats why they call them pro.

 

[Davidkoh]

Well, most people I know use it to convert or play their music CDs, or play a DVD while on holiday or business trip, or burn music/picture CDs for their friends etc. They just have their laptops on their desks and wouldn't like any more clutter.

Seems like they should go back to the 90s . I can understand CDs for a good stereo, since you need to get to 1.5-2k usd for a good enough DAC to match a good CD-player.

Most people I know stream their music via Spotify, with offline playlists for when they do not have internet access, same goes for video files,they are stored on the drive. Want to share something? Send it over the net, it will be done before you can even locate and burn the CD.

 

[the1payday]

Some of the thoughts expressed in this thread, are exactly why I think Apple should implement more choices, and CLEARLY separate the "consumer" and "Pro" models to their customers. It annoys me to no end that Apple has been set in their mindset of "13-inch means you don't want power and 17-inch means you must want it fully loaded." I sell Macs at my job, and almost every time I sell a 17" MBP, it's not to some geek, but to some little old lady who wants the big screen because of diminished eyesight; not because she needs a freaking Nvidia 9000000GFXLIKEOMG! graphics card inside. Apple should begin releasing 13,15,17" laptops in BOTH the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines. Picture something like this:

Macbook Specs
9400m GPU, 2GB DDR3 Ram, base 160GB HDD, and around a 2.2 GHz Intel C2D
and all the existing ports of the current MacBook. Priced as follows:

13" $999
15" $1299
17" $1499

MacBook Pro Specs
Dedicated+Integrated dual cards across ALL three sizes, 4GB DDR3 Ram, minimum 2.6GHZ i5 Processors and a minimum 320GB HDD. Backlit keyboards, and possibly additional USB/FireWire ports on the 17" due to it's extra port space. Priced as follows:
13" $1499
15" $1799
17" $2100

What are everyone's thoughts on Apple actually implementing something like this?

 

[chaosbunny]

Seems like they should go back to the 90s . I can understand CDs for a good stereo, since you need to get to 1.5-2k usd for a good enough DAC to match a good CD-player.

Most people I know stream their music via Spotify, with offline playlists for when they do not have internet access, same goes for video files,they are stored on the drive. Want to share something? Send it over the net, it will be done before you can even locate and burn the CD.

Seems like they should up the bandwith where I live.

And even then, some people use these usb internet sticks as their only web access. No fancy up/download speeds there.

Apart from that, I refuse to buy music at places like the itunes store. It's pricing is crap. Why buy a mp3 album for 10 euros when I can get the CD, with it's cover, booklet, better quality and no drm for 12-13 euros?

Some of the thoughts expressed in this thread, are exactly why I think Apple should implement more choices, and CLEARLY separate the "consumer" and "Pro" models to their customers. It annoys me to no end that Apple has been set in their mindset of "13-inch means you don't want power and 17-inch means you must want it fully loaded." I sell Macs at my job, and almost every time I sell a 17" MBP, it's not to some geek, but to some little old lady who wants the big screen because of diminished eyesight; not because she needs a freaking Nvidia 9000000GFXLIKEOMG! graphics card inside. Apple should begin releasing 13,15,17" laptops in BOTH the MacBook and MacBook Pro lines. Picture something like this:

Macbook Specs
9400m GPU, 2GB DDR3 Ram, base 160GB HDD, and around a 2.2 GHz Intel C2D
and all the existing ports of the current MacBook. Priced as follows:

13" $999
15" $1299
17" $1499

MacBook Pro Specs
Dedicated+Integrated dual cards across ALL three sizes, 4GB DDR3 Ram, minimum 2.6GHZ i5 Processors and a minimum 320GB HDD. Backlit keyboards, and possibly additional USB/FireWire ports on the 17" due to it's extra port space. Priced as follows:
13" $1499
15" $1799
17" $2100

What are everyone's thoughts on Apple actually implementing something like this?

I would love to see that happen, but, like I posted before, apple ≠ choices, unfortunately.

 

[PAC88]

I'm with the OP. Give me a true high end 13" with the option for a matte screen.

 

[Cali3350]

The Sony Vaio Z is the only true "High End" 13" notebook on the planet and it costs upwards of $2000 - imagine the Apple tax on top of that!

Larger notebooks are considered more high end for a number of reasons, but the biggest is productivity. Larger machines have higher resolutions, which are very important for engineers. Sure, SOME engineers may make due with a 1280*800 screen size but most want MINIMUM 1600*900 when coding / running / autocading / etc. Screens of that resolution for that size are both very expensive and 'unwanted' by the masses. Mom and Dad dont want to squint to use the computer - they want things big. Add to that the relatively limited resolution choices OSX offers (no resolution independence in 2010 is laughable Apple) and its easy to see how a 13" notebook is considered low end.

If Apple offered a 13" with a resolution of 1600*900 and discrete GPU id buy it in a heartbeat. They wont, because it would cost upwards of $2500. Imagine seeing a $2500 notebook at Best Buy next to all the other $700 ones. Apple brand image is good, but its not that good.

 

[Maserati7200]

My wife, for one. She has an office in Fort Worth but she also has to have the ability to work remotely from home or in Minneapolis (where here boss is located). Even a 17" display isn't ideal for her work (she has a 23" ACD at her office), but the 13" definitely wouldn't get the job done when she is working remotely.

Wait.. a 17" MBP (from 2008 and on) and a 23" ACD have the same resolution... how does connecting to ACD help?

Why have to use that outdated way of storage just because a few wanna use it? . Better to make it external so the few who uses it every day can still have one. And for a 13" that is not really a desktop replacement it makes no sense to have that **** internal.

If you don't want to use it, get a MBP without one. Like I'd imagine you could choose between a bigger battery or a CD drive, I'd pick optical and you'd pick battery. And please don't give me BS, a lot of people still use optical drives, and don't want to plug in a USB one that gets in the way and easily unplugs.

 

[Davidkoh]

Seems like they should up the bandwith where I live.

And even then, some people use these usb internet sticks as their only web access. No fancy up/download speeds there.

Apart from that, I refuse to buy music at places like the itunes store. It's pricing is crap. Why buy a mp3 album for 10 euros when I can get the CD, with it's cover, booklet, better quality and no drm for 12-13 euros?

Hell, I download at like 300 kb/s when using my iPhone 3G as a modem, if I would get a stick I could up that to 500 kb/s. As I said, for music I stream through spotify .

If you don't want to use it, get a MBP without one. Like I'd imagine you could choose between a bigger battery or a CD drive, I'd pick optical and you'd pick battery. And please don't give me BS, a lot of people still use optical drives, and don't want to plug in a USB one that gets in the way and easily unplugs.

I still think there are more people who do not use their drives every day then use them every day. But there are no statistics either way so all we can do is speculate.

 

[PAC88]

The Sony Vaio Z is the only true "High End" 13" notebook on the planet and it costs upwards of $2000 - imagine the Apple tax on top of that!

If Apple offered a 13" with a resolution of 1600*900 and discrete GPU id buy it in a heartbeat. They wont, because it would cost upwards of $2500. Imagine seeing a $2500 notebook at Best Buy next to all the other $700 ones. Apple brand image is good, but its not that good.

yea.. I've been excited about the new z that's coming out (wish it was shipping already). I don't understand why apple won't try to absorb part of that market.. sure the powerful ultra portable market is very small but it's big enough for them to at least make a respectable effort. The 12" powerbook was a good start and then I feel like they gave up.

The people who want that type of notebook are willing to pay a little extra. Sure the average consumer at best buy would think it's crazy (even though they will drool all over it).. but your above average consumer that knows anything would see the price is easily justified by the specs.

Apple is quickly losing these customers that they once catered to. The average consumer is easier for them to profit from I guess. I'd rather not support a company with this mindset.
anyways.. I'll end up getting the z if apple doesn't step up to the plate on this next update. I'd rather give a company like Sony my hard earned cash since they seem to know exactly what I want and they don't keep consumers in the dark about updates

 

[carl l]

who said the 17" was the high end?

Clearly it is. 9600GT graphics, 7200rpm HDD, anti glare, high res screen, 6mb cache and a 3.06Ghz processor. The 13" has none of this.

It's a shame as I'd have gotten the 2.53Ghz 13" w/ 8gb upgrade if only they'd offered the anti-glare option. No heat, cost or space reasons not to.

As it is, I fully loaded up a 15" which can handle big FCP jobs with ease.

Would be great for Apple to offer more options, but then it seems they're doing okay as it is telling us what we want.

 

[Dan73]

who said the 17" was the high end?

all of the macbook pro lines are high end.

thats why they call them pro.

Thats some great logic there

I'm going to go slap a "Sport" sticker on my car, that should add about 25+ HP to it.

 

[PAC88]

if the 13" had a matte screen and no sd card slot, I would be happy.

 

[Maserati7200]

if the 13" had [...] no sd card slot, I would be happy.

I don't understand. You would want to take away a feature from the MBP for you to be happy? Are you some kind of sick, twisted, freak? It's not like on the 15" MBP where the SD Card slot replaced a express card, which wasn't such a good idea, but Apple never made a 13" computer with an express card, and the 12" PB didn't have an express card, either. So what you're suggesting is taking away a feature that many people use, and replace it with nothing. Great idea. If Kate from LOST were to hook up with me, I'd be happy too. I guess we can't always get what we want, can we?