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What happens if you watch a lot of Netflix DVDs? Streaming libraries are tiny by comparison and pirating is a whole other conversation.
Assuming you are talking about older classic movies, that you've probably already seen at least a couple of times anyway? All the new ones release now in time with the blu-rays and have done so for several years.

You realise you're talking about a mail order service for physical media...and are complaining about not having a built in Super Drive in a computer the size of the rMB...so you can watch movies on the go when at the same time you have to wait several days for them to be delivered in the mail...I hope you realise how cutely quaint and old fashioned that sounds. Do you mark on your calendar and plan out when you have to order the films you want to have with you on your next trip???

You're willing to go through all of that for a slightly larger selection of movies?

Additionally, the only Apple computer you can actually get with that "feature" is the legacy cMBP. You should buy that. This extremely niche example has absolutely nothing to do with the rMB.
 
I just don't understand why Apple keeps that headphone jack. It is supposed to be "wireless world", right?
Because Apple doesn't yet sell an Apple branded wireless headphone. ;-)

This is exactly my argument. Since you have to have a dongle for anything except power out of the box (how many people previously had any USB-C devices?), then why not a dongle for audio? Why dedicate limited and precious space for an audio port? In comparison, why not put an audio jack on the Watch too?

A second USB-C port would be far more useful than an antiquated audio jack. And to follow the same apologists arguments given for everything else, 'just buy a wireless headset if you don't already have one, no need for a dedicated audio jack, problem solved'. Your observation is a specialized use case, just like all the other anecdotal arguments being offered in this thread. For instance, here's mine -- I've never plugged a headphone into my MacBook, so nobody else should need to do that.

The bottom line is there's no good reason not to include two USB-C ports. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages -- offers a redundant port in case something happens to one, the odds of which are increased now that MagSafe has been eliminated, and the added strain from required dongles. Prevents excessive wear on a single port, resulting from connecting and disconnecting a charging cable twice a day, especially for those who do use it for peripherals, or require more frequent charging. Allows someone to plug in more than one device without buying specialized dongles, and hubs, allowing simultaneous power connection if necessary. Allows connection from either side of the MacBook (a selling point on some previous MacBooks). Does not add significantly to the weight or cost, nor compromise the design.

But let's get back to your original audio port observation -- Apple is essentially using technology that dates back to 1878! So why is that? Why hasn't Apple revolutionized something as antiquated as the audio jack? Wouldn't a connector half the height of 1/8" audio plug be far more useful and space saving in Apple's quest for the ultimate thinness? Something like the size of the lightning connector for instance? To the extent there's ANY justification to keep a wired audio connection on a mobile device, especially one that relies almost exclusively on wireless connections, why not redesign it for all of your products? To that end, why offer an audio port on an iPhone or iPad either? Why not just use the one lightning port for everything? And if you have to plug in anything else on any product, you get an adapter? That seems to be the logic in play here.
 
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I'm not sure about removing the audio plug. I get the all wireless thing and the single USB-C plug has been a non issue for me so far (I have a NAS, dropbox, iCloud for Photos...), but is still like to use high quality headphones when travelling and those are still wired. BT4 is ok but not as good as a wired connection yet and that is one more thing to charge when travelling and most are bulky compared to intra ears monitors for example.
 
As a direct response to these two points:
  1. Newsflash: Every single company determines for you what you want and when you need it, and how your workflow will be shaped using that equipment. Then you as the client or consumer get to vote with your wallet. Quite the concept, actually, eh? Just because Apple often leads the way by doing things a bit different or a bit earlier than other companies doesn't change that fact. Did anyone force me to spend my company's money on the rMB? Nope, that was an active choice. I'll state this again for your benefit - my worklow has actually changed 0% from the previous 4 years, nor has the number of dongles increased at all - 2 adapters were replaced with 2 adapters. We don't even need to talk about the wireless aspect, even though, yes, I do use it extensively.
  2. You are unable to provide even an anecdotal example to support your assertion that the one USB-C port would require you to change your workflow significantly as compared to an equivalent MBA, which the rMB will be replacing. rMBP examples don't count - if you need/want an rMBP for your work any criticism of the rMB is irrelevant to the discussion. This simply because the rMB isn't meant to be an rMBP alternative. Different tools for different uses.

Your posts are based on false presumption. I leave you at that as I immensly enjoy wintessing this - let me borrow from you - "anecdotal" amount of self-confidence in a person. It always makes me smile.
Your interpretation of classical market economy and the role of the consumer in it is quite original and unique. What you are referring to in your writing is called in academic circles "consumer capitalism", "where consumer demand is manipulated in a deliberate and coordinated way on a very large scale through mass-marketing techniques to the advantage of sellers."
 
Given all the interest in port adapters on KickStarter, I'm a bit surprised that Apple didn't design smaller or more attractive adapters for the MacBook. Perhaps it's part of the push to discourage the use of wired connections, but they could easily have developed something like the Kadi port or Hub+.
 
Your posts are based on false presumption. I leave you at that as I immensly enjoy wintessing this - let me borrow from you - "anecdotal" amount of self-confidence in a person. It always makes me smile.
Your interpretation of classical market economy and the role of the consumer in it is quite original and unique. What you are referring to in your writing is called in academic circles "consumer capitalism", "where consumer demand is manipulated in a deliberate and coordinated way on a very large scale through mass-marketing techniques to the advantage of sellers."
Wow - you've a very special way of interpreting things. You must be claiming that Apple then is the only company out there with a marketing department whose sole purpose for existing is to convince the consumer to buy their stuff.

You think my false presumption is that I am an independent being, unaffected by the evil influences of consumer capitalism. Do you think I actually have the misplaced gaul to refute that consumer marketing actually does work in all its forms, and that I am so detached and devoid of self awareness that I would be ridiculous enough to deny that I am, in fact, influenced by said marketing in all its forms? That would be extremely self righteous of me.

Almost as self righteous as you come across, thinking your smug academia rhetoric absolves you from making any concrete contribution to supporting your viewpoint. So far you've just pontificated your philosophy about mass marketed sheep blindly walking through the turnstiles and forking over their cash to the Man before stepping onto the conveyor belt to be incinerated in the style of Pink Floyd's The Wall.

Of course I am influenced by external stimuli. What does any of all of that above have to do with the simple fact that the rMB has no less wired functionality than the MBA it is meant to replace, while providing it in a smaller, lighter, simpler and more efficient package? It is something called targeted design goals.

@Mac 128 - The first thing that comes to my mind with regards to not having a second USB-C port is having to add a second USB-C controller for it on the miniscule, cramped logic board. The logic board is tiny for the combined reasons of thermal efficiency and battery capacity. The rMB, for better or for worse, whatever your viewpoint may be, was probably designed around having just this one port, which will evolve into TB3/USB-C with the next update. You possibly could even get a second one if Apple decides to release a 14" model some time after or in conjunction with the redesign of the rMBP line.
 
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Wow - you've a very special way of interpreting things. You must be claiming that Apple then is the only company out there with a marketing department whose sole purpose for existing is to convince the consumer to buy their stuff.

You think my false presumption is that I am an independent being, unaffected by the evil influences of consumer capitalism. Do you think I actually have the misplaced gaul to refute that consumer marketing actually does work in all its forms, and that I am so detached and devoid of self awareness that I would be ridiculous enough to deny that I am, in fact, influenced by said marketing in all its forms? That would be extremely self righteous of me.

Almost as self righteous as you come across, thinking your smug academia rhetoric absolves you from making any concrete contribution to supporting your viewpoint. So far you've just pontificated your philosophy about mass marketed sheep blindly walking through the turnstiles and forking over their cash to the Man before stepping onto the conveyor belt to be incinerated in the style of Pink Floyd's The Wall.

Of course I am influenced by external stimuli. What does any of all of that above have to do with the simple fact that the rMB has no less wired functionality than the MBA it is meant to replace, while providing it in a smaller, lighter, simpler and more efficient package? It is something called targeted design goals...

1. No such claim, you try to insinuate. Apple is not the only company, though it is a company that without doubt succeeded in your case.
2. "More efficient package?" With an Intel Core M-5Y31, Intel HD Graphics 5300, 480p FaceTime camera, single port which is limiting, to say the least amongst others because of the necessary adapters and finally at $1,299?
3. It is called form over function.
 
Assuming you are talking about older classic movies, that you've probably already seen at least a couple of times anyway? All the new ones release now in time with the blu-rays and have done so for several years.

You realise you're talking about a mail order service for physical media...and are complaining about not having a built in Super Drive in a computer the size of the rMB...so you can watch movies on the go when at the same time you have to wait several days for them to be delivered in the mail...I hope you realise how cutely quaint and old fashioned that sounds. Do you mark on your calendar and plan out when you have to order the films you want to have with you on your next trip???

You're willing to go through all of that for a slightly larger selection of movies?

Additionally, the only Apple computer you can actually get with that "feature" is the legacy cMBP. You should buy that. This extremely niche example has absolutely nothing to do with the rMB.

I responded to your post of:

That poster in this thread still carrying around a DVD player, and actually believes he needs it on occasion? That guy needs to let it go.

I said nothing about built in, of course an external superdrive will work but you acted like someone would hardly ever use DVDs. Movies are generally available on DVD at least a month before they are streaming. There is also a huge catalog of older movies not available in streaming. Netflix streaming usually does not have all the extra bonus features. of course if you are willing to wait for streaming to be available or buy them instead of renting then you have no need of DVDs.

Of course you don't plan your vacations based around movies, you maintain a queue and take the movies/tv shows at your house with you when you go. There is zero overlap because you send back what you are finished with so you have a constant supply of videos to watch.
 
Because Apple doesn't yet sell an Apple branded wireless headphone. ;-)

This is exactly my argument. Since you have to have a dongle for anything except power out of the box (how many people previously had any USB-C devices?), then why not a dongle for audio? Why dedicate limited and precious space for an audio port? In comparison, why not put an audio jack on the Watch too?

A second USB-C port would be far more useful than an antiquated audio jack. And to follow the same apologists arguments given for everything else, 'just buy a wireless headset if you don't already have one, no need for a dedicated audio jack, problem solved'. Your observation is a specialized use case, just like all the other anecdotal arguments being offered in this thread. For instance, here's mine -- I've never plugged a headphone into my MacBook, so nobody else should need to do that.

The bottom line is there's no good reason not to include two USB-C ports. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages -- offers a redundant port in case something happens to one, the odds of which are increased now that MagSafe has been eliminated, and the added strain from required dongles. Prevents excessive wear on a single port, resulting from connecting and disconnecting a charging cable twice a day, especially for those who do use it for peripherals, or require more frequent charging. Allows someone to plug in more than one device without buying specialized dongles, and hubs, allowing simultaneous power connection if necessary. Allows connection from either side of the MacBook (a selling point on some previous MacBooks). Does not add significantly to the weight or cost, nor compromise the design.

But let's get back to your original audio port observation -- Apple is essentially using technology that dates back to 1878! So why is that? Why hasn't Apple revolutionized something as antiquated as the audio jack? Wouldn't a connector half the height of 1/8" audio plug be far more useful and space saving in Apple's quest for the ultimate thinness? Something like the size of the lightning connector for instance? To the extent there's ANY justification to keep a wired audio connection on a mobile device, especially one that relies almost exclusively on wireless connections, why not redesign it for all of your products? To that end, why offer an audio port on an iPhone or iPad either? Why not just use the one lightning port for everything? And if you have to plug in anything else on any product, you get an adapter? That seems to be the logic in play here.

I believe the reason that they left the audio port is because they haven't quite gotten around to doing the work necessary to get rid of it yet. Every device they sell still includes it, and on their laptops, it has to be the most used port for a wide swath of their user-base outside of the power jack. I expect Apple to tackle the audio jack soon, my guess is with the iPhone 7 as it is currently the component most constraining the design. As a headphone collector, I fear what they will do here, because I'm not interested in wireless headphones, and while I'd be ok with an adapter, I know that anything converting to lightning would require a DAC which is going to be bulky and low-quality in anything small. I could use my own DAC as I do now at times, but I'd hate to lose the convenience of plugging right into Apple's quite good amp/dac implementation.

Anyhow, in my opinion, Apple was not yet at a place where they could drop the audio jack as they don't yet have an alternative solution in place. The situation is somewhat the same with USB-C, but the difference is that adapters that cover the main use cases were available right off the bat. If you accept that they have to keep the audio jack, then adding a second usb port suddenly compromises the design a fair bit. Given the capabilities of a single usb-c port, I'm ok with it - and the situation will only improve as the accessory market gets rolling. As an owner of a Surface Pro 3 for work, I'm familiar with the limitations of a single usb port, and in the case of the SP3, that single port is actually extremely limited in what it can do (ie. it is under powered, so when I plug in my hub/Ethernet adapter, it can't actually power things like a hard drive, meaning if I want to copy something from my external hard disk to a usb stick, I have to copy it to the Surface first, then move it to the stick). So moving to usb-c will actually be a huge improvement in that situation, and will allow for docking on the go without having several plugs to worry about once I get the right adapter.

The early point about this being a device for early adopters is right on in my opinion. USB-C isn't quite ready for the average consumer to rely on as their only input choice. When the MacBook first came out I thought it would be the perfect replacement for my wife's aging 11" Air, and it would be, with the exception of the lack of a legacy usb port. She doesn't use it a lot, but she does use it, and there is no way she will keep track of a dongle. Ultimately I ended up ordering one for myself because as I explained above, I already have experience living with the limitations of a single port, and carrying around dongles to compensate. I'm fine with it if the device itself is reduced in size as a result because for the 90+ percent of the time I use it without accessories, I far prefer having the device as light and small as possible instead of carrying that bulk at all times on the off-chance I might want to use some legacy port or accessory.
 
1. No such claim, you try to insinuate. Apple is not the only company, though it is a company that without doubt succeeded in your case.
2. "More efficient package?" With an Intel Core M-5Y31, Intel HD Graphics 5300, 480p FaceTime camera, single port which is limiting, to say the least amongst others because of the necessary adapters and finally at $1,299?
3. It is called form over function.
I don't actually try to insinuate anything, I come right out and say what I mean, unlike your good self.

For you, yes it might be limiting - for others, no. I guess because I have different needs, priorities and device history than your majestic self and thus have sullied myself by owning an rMB, I am a brainwashed Apple sheep? :rolleyes:

Yes, it is more efficient. It provides far superior CPU & GPU performance than the 2011 11" MBA Core i7 I am coming from - at only 40% of the power draw (pretty much the definition of efficient, last time I checked). It has a smaller footprint, provides an overall much thinner and lighter package, and sports a vastly superior screen that has a more productive aspect ratio, higher resolution allowing for HiDPI resolution scaling (aka "retina"), more screen real estate at those HiDPI scaled resolutions, better colour accuracy, and wider more comfortable viewing angles than the machine I had immediately previous to this one.

You see everything is relative. Like I suggested earlier, if you are an Apple Sheep like me, you better run out and get a 2015 rMBP before they redesign it, otherwise you might end up having to by a new adapter. :eek:

Or - since you are so removed from the world and immune to the lowly consumer capitalism that plagues the proletariat that you are totally brand and product agnostic, why don't you just go buy a big, fat, thick, 15 onboard port Dell, HP, or Lenovo with a real live internal dual layer 32x CD R/W drive and two expansion ports on the back side? That would be aaaaawesome!

Seriously don't get what you were expecting out of a Broadwell Core M in a fanless chassis design made by Apple. Micro USB, mini HDMI? You should know better.
 
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2. "More efficient package?" With an Intel Core M-5Y31, Intel HD Graphics 5300, 480p FaceTime camera, single port which is limiting, to say the least amongst others because of the necessary adapters and finally at $1,299?
3. It is called form over function.

You have interesting way at looking things.

Intel Core M is indeed efficient and wonderful CPU. It's plenty powerful considering how little energy it consumes. You have to notice that Core i5's found inside MacBook Air aren't that much more powerful, yet they use a lot more energy. Oh, and it's fanless which I consider positive. Less moving parts, less noise and no need to worry about dust.

rMB has retina display which is best in it's class. Quite easily.

Base configuratation comes with 8Gb of RAM and 256Gb SSD. Compared to MacBook Air's 4Gb and 128Gb.

It's a lot more portable than even the MacBook Air.

One port is plenty enough especially since it's as versatile as USB-C. Most of the things are done wirelessly anyways.

You are right about the FaceTime camera. It's piece of crap.

At 1299$ I consider it great value especially compared to MacBook Air.
 
I responded to your post of:

That poster in this thread still carrying around a DVD player, and actually believes he needs it on occasion? That guy needs to let it go.

I said nothing about built in, of course an external superdrive will work but you acted like someone would hardly ever use DVDs. Movies are generally available on DVD at least a month before they are streaming. There is also a huge catalog of older movies not available in streaming. Netflix streaming usually does not have all the extra bonus features. of course if you are willing to wait for streaming to be available or buy them instead of renting then you have no need of DVDs.

Of course you don't plan your vacations based around movies, you maintain a queue and take the movies/tv shows at your house with you when you go. There is zero overlap because you send back what you are finished with so you have a constant supply of videos to watch.
Ok, so what's the problem with the rMB then? It's not like you can't use it anymore. Get a USB-A adapter and you are good to go?
 
Does anyone here agree that a MBA design with a better display would be more appealing than a rMB?

The rMB offers nothing substantial over the MBA in my opinion, apart from the display. The battery life shows to be the same on the MBA 11'', and higher on the MBA 13''.
 
I don't actually try to insinuate anything, I come right out and say what I mean, unlike your good self....

This is a commendable trait of character and much appreciated that you have the guts to admit:
...an Apple Sheep like me...I am a brainwashed Apple sheep...


...Yes, it is more efficient. It provides far superior CPU & GPU performance than the 2011 11" MBA Core i7...

It would be more realistic and fair to compare the rMB to MacBook Air 2015, if we are talking about efficiency, though no problem with that approach, feel free to compare it to iBook or PowerBook series next time.

...Or - since you are so removed from the world and immune from the lowly consumer capitalism proletariat that you are totally brand and product agnostic, why don't you just go buy a big, fat, thick, 15 onboard port Dell, HP, or Lenovo with a real live internal dual layer 32x CD R/W drive and two expansion ports on the back side? That would be aaaaawesome!

Let me once again borrow your words: everything is relative. The question is who is really removed from the world, i.e. reality. Sometimes for some it maybe a problem to determine who is on the inside or on the outside of the fence.
 
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1. No such claim, you try to insinuate. Apple is not the only company, though it is a company that without doubt succeeded in your case.
2. "More efficient package?" With an Intel Core M-5Y31, Intel HD Graphics 5300, 480p FaceTime camera, single port which is limiting, to say the least amongst others because of the necessary adapters and finally at $1,299?
3. It is called form over function.

It called being "locked in", no imagination, no vision, which is why you are trapped where you are, while others with more open minds move ever forward...

Q-6
 
Does anyone here agree that a MBA design with a better display would be more appealing than a rMB?

The rMB offers nothing substantial over the MBA in my opinion, apart from the display. The battery life shows to be the same on the MBA 11'', and higher on the MBA 13''.

The rMB is smaller, thinner, lighter, has a smaller power brick, better quality display, in a better aspect ratio, using a usb-port that is cutting edge in a fanless design. It's a decidedly different machine than the existing MBA. If the MBA were updated with a high resolution screen, the battery life would have dropped and the price would have gone up substantially. Perhaps Apple evaluated those options, and decided that making a device heavier and more expensive with a reduction in battery life was not the way they wanted to move forward. I don't know. If the Air were updated as it stands with a retina display at a higher price, then no, it would not have interested me. If it had been updated with a new screen aspect ratio and design, with fully cutting edge parts and chassis, perhaps it would have tempted me. I can't say because such a machine doesn't exist!
 
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And this preconception is coming from someone from Behind the Great Firewall.
It is high time you reconfigured it and let data flow in and not only out.

You assume far too much, which simply confirms that you have no idea what you talking about. I may currently reside in P.R. China, equally there is significantly more chance you are Chinese...

As stated previously it`s time for you to "open your mind", drop the rhetoric and assumption, might just do you "a world of good" as for preconceptions clearly that`s more your field of expertise ;)

Q-6
 
And who was the first to "assume far too much":

...no imagination, no vision, which is why you are trapped where you are...

You know, Queen6, the most interesting phenomenon in this Forum is that if you don't nod, agree with all that Apple does and the followers (no pejorative meaning this time) think or express then you are a "troll", "this is not for you, go buy a (insert whatever brand you like)" or just "open your mind".

再见
 
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And who was the first to "assume far too much":



You know, Queen6, the most interesting phenomenon in this Forum is that if you don't nod, agree with all that Apple does and the followers (no pejorative meaning this time) think or express then you are a "troll", "this is not for you, go buy a (insert whatever brand you like)" or just "open your mind".

拜拜啦

I for one certainly do not follow or care for all that Apple produces, nor do I own explicitly Apple devices. I look to what works for me, and adds value irrespective of brand accepting others case use will differ. I don't consider you a "troll" rather more lacking an open mind to the usage and scope of purpose of other users.

世上无难事,只怕有心人

btw. you really need to work on your Chinese :)

Q-6
 
I for one certainly do not follow or care for all that Apple produces, nor do I own explicitly Apple devices. I look to what works for me, and adds value irrespective of brand accepting others case use will differ. I don't consider you a "troll" rather more lacking an open mind to the usage and scope of purpose of other users.

世上无难事,只怕有心人

btw. you really need to work on your Chinese :)

Q-6

I use Apple products (that meet my needs). It does not bother me though to have an objective opinion. If the latter or lack of unconditional acceptance means missing an "open mind", let it be.

What concerns Chinese, it was a modest try, I am more into European languages. (对不起).

(btw, I agree with you as everything is possible, the impossible just takes a little longer) ;)
 
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I use Apple products (that meet my needs). It does not bother me though to have an objective opinion. If the latter or lack of unconditional acceptance means missing an "open mind", so let it be.

What concerns Chinese, it was a modest try, I am more into European languages. (对不起).

(btw, I agere with you as everything is possible, the impossible just takes a little longer) ;)

All in good time, of that I am sure, for the both of us :)

Q-6
 
The rMB is smaller, thinner, lighter, has a smaller power brick, better quality display, in a better aspect ratio, using a usb-port that is cutting edge in a fanless design.
How are these improvements, given all that you sacrifice?

It's a decidedly different machine than the existing MBA.
I'm aware of this, but if the MBA were updated you would arguably have a much more versatile ultrabook option that is still just as portable. Does the fact that the rMB is ever so slightly thinner than the MBA really matter to anyone?

If the MBA were updated with a high resolution screen, the battery life would have dropped and the price would have gone up substantially.
Yes it would reduce the battery life, but then you're talking about the battery life similar to the rMB which everyone seems to love to boast about. The price would not likely go up "substantially." Multiple components would affect its price point anyway, not just the screen.

Perhaps Apple evaluated those options, and decided that making a device heavier and more expensive with a reduction in battery life was not the way they wanted to move forward. I don't know. If the Air were updated as it stands with a retina display at a higher price, then no, it would not have interested me. If it had been updated with a new screen aspect ratio and design, with fully cutting edge parts and chassis, perhaps it would have tempted me. I can't say because such a machine doesn't exist!

I think an Air, even at the same price point as the rMB, with its exact form factor, updated screen and updated internals would be more successful, and would be something worth seeing.

The rMB is redundant in my opinion. Zero idea of why it can co-exist with the MBA, except for the fact that right now, in this moment, it is the Mac OS X ultrabook with a superior screen - and "retina" or other IPS-type panels are all the rage. You can argue that "the rMB is the Digital World version of the ultrabook!" but that is silly at the cost of everything in order to shred off fractions of weight in my opinion. If a MBA with an equivalent screen was released tomorrow, with the same chassis and 2015 i5-i7s, I feel that a good amount of those who purchased the rMB would be experiencing buyer's remorse.

Just opinions.
 
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