Why is BMW the only company that makes unique cars?

[SevenInchScrew]

What citation? Just ask any car enthusiast that's not a BMW fanboi. They'll tell you all about it. BMW fanbois tend to overlook the ridiculous amounts of maintenance these cars require nowadays. And it's all because BMW only cares about the first owner who lays out most money. And then to hell with all of the subsequent ones.

Well, I'm not a "BMW fanboi", but I AM a car enthusiast, and I don't know of these problems you speak of. I previously owned and auto-x'd one (E30 M3), my family owned a couple BMWs previously (E39, E46), my girlfriend owned a couple (E39, E60), and I currently have 3 friends who've owned/own them (E46, E90, E92, F10). None of these various cars ever had "ridiculous amounts of maintenance" while I knew them.

That is why I asked for a specific reference, like an article or some study that showed this to be the case. Maybe all of these cars that we all owned just happened to be luckily put together well, I don't know. As it stands, with you offering no real evidence of this widespread fragility and expense, I don't believe it. It will take more than anecdotal "go ask X, they'll tell you" statements to change that.

 

[Naimfan]

That is why I asked for a specific reference, like an article or some study that showed this to be the case.

Well, I can be called a fan, and I'd have to agree on the lack of reliability of newer BMWs. As far as sources, you can review JD Power surveys, Consumer Reports surveys, Edmunds.com reliability reviews, and so on. The early E46s in particular strike me as being especially troublesome (and I've owned two different ones).

I do agree on maintenance--I don't think the recommended/required maintenance is out of line with other manufacturers.

 

[SevenInchScrew]

As far as sources, you can review JD Power surveys, Consumer Reports surveys, Edmunds.com reliability reviews, and so on.

I just went and looked at the JD Power 2010 ratings, and BMW had either "About Average" or "Better than Most" ratings on everything I could find. I couldn't find anything older on the site. A quick look at Edmunds, as well, shows a great deal more "Minimal Problems" ratings than anything else. That is quite a bit different than the suggestions to the contrary from people here, so if you have any specific examples, I'd love to see them. Like I said before, maybe me, my family and all my friends that have owned BMWs just got lucky with the dozen or so cars we've owned over the last 20 years or so, because none of them ever suffered from anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Nabooly]

mmmm....

 

[quagmire]

The Corvette is a car that has a unique design, powerful engine and AWFUL handling. It's like driving a bucking bronco. Fun for a few minutes then it really chaps your ass. I'm definitely no fan of the Corvette of the past few decades. You can get a lot better car for your money.

Yeah, no handling. That's why it is one of the fastest production cars around the Nurburgring or is one of the fastest cars in C&D's lightning lap, etc. Why the C6-R is dominate in the Le Mans races( the Z06 is based off the C6-R) The C6 Corvette is no muscle car. It is a bit tail happy if you put too much throttle in the corner, but other than that it is a pretty good handler.

You can watch the review of the 2011 Corvette Z06 here. It does require skill to drive a Corvette. It isn't a GT-R where computers help you out.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2011_chevrolet_corvette_z06_test/index.html

I drove a 2011 Corvette GS at GM's Main Street in Motion driving event. They allowed you to go all out on the 'Vette. The handling of the Corvette is no joke.

 

[Naimfan]

I just went and looked at the JD Power 2010 ratings, and BMW had either "About Average" or "Better than Most" ratings on everything I could find. I couldn't find anything older on the site. A quick look at Edmunds, as well, shows a great deal more "Minimal Problems" ratings than anything else. That is quite a bit different than the suggestions to the contrary from people here, so if you have any specific examples, I'd love to see them. Like I said before, maybe me, my family and all my friends that have owned BMWs just got lucky with the dozen or so cars we've owned over the last 20 years or so, because none of them ever suffered from anything out of the ordinary.

Look at CR reliability ratings - they're not great. The JD Power bit you looked at only talks about defects in new vehicles. And I say that as a fan--I own one, and have owned a bunch. But the reality is that BMWs are not as reliable as, say, Honda.

 

[vincenz]

Funny, when I think "most unique car" BMW isn't what comes to mind.

Me neither.

 

[milbournosphere]

Imho, BMW makes yuppie crap for people who only care about what others think about them. Older BMWs before mid-90s had a soul and although I'd never buy one (I have unadulterated disliking for most things German) at least I can respect them. I know quite a few people that only bought BMWs for the sake of having a BMW and nothing else.

New cars are just bloated overpowered status symbols loaded up to the gills with unreliable electronics. Not much else to say. If you don't believe me, buy a used BMW circa early 2000s with some mileage and see how quickly it will drain your wallet and your patience.

My impression has been that everything past the E46 has been crap. I know several people with E46 and E39 bimmers that have been very happy with them. I think that those model years also look the best, aside from the E30 of course. Everything e60 and up look horrible. Now that Bangle is gone, maybe things will turn around. I'll never forgive him for the X6.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Never owned one, but did get to drive my nephew's 2001 330i, when it was new.

Very nice car, and a load of fun to drive. Torque up the ass, if I may say so.

Fast-forward to today.

He has just paid $2K to 'refresh' the paint, and he plans on keeping it.

And, as a self-made software millionaire, he is not suffering for money.

It has been my experience, that most people with money like keep it, by being frugal.

 

[SevenInchScrew]

Look at CR reliability ratings - they're not great. The JD Power bit you looked at only talks about defects in new vehicles. And I say that as a fan--I own one, and have owned a bunch. But the reality is that BMWs are not as reliable as, say, Honda.

The discussion was not about how they ranked with other brands. It was about the alleged horrible reliability problems they are apparently plagued with.

But, I went to JD Power and Edmunds, as you suggested, and both said nothing in line with the claims people made in this thread. I would have looked at Consumer Reports, but it wanted me to subscribe to see the reports. I'm not going to pay $$$ just to continue a discussion.

So, like I've said a few times now, if you can provide me with actual evidence, I'll start listening. And by that, I mean an actual link to a story or test, not just more suggestions on stuff to look up. As it stands, my personal experience with the vehicles, as well as, apparently, JD Power and Edmunds, says there is nothing out of the ordinary with these cars.

 

[Naimfan]

The discussion was not about how they ranked with other brands. It was about the alleged horrible reliability problems they are apparently plagued with.

Stop. My comment, based on ownership of every 3 series since the E30, is that they have declined in reliability, both on an absolute and a relative basis, compared to car manufacturers as a whole. It is also based on easily available documentation that you can find if you spend one-tenth the time googling instead of posting. If you're too lazy to research it, you're not worth conversing with.

 

[-Ken-]

There are very few things about BMWs that make them 'unique'

Most of their line-up with a few exceptions is quite pedestrian.

If you want something unique (at least in the United States) you'll need to find a rotary-powered car or something from the former Warsaw Pact nations.

 

[Naimfan]

If you want something unique (at least in the United States) you'll need to find a . . . QUOTE]

Fiat missile carrier, perhaps?

 

[quagmire]

My impression has been that everything past the E46 has been crap. I know several people with E46 and E39 bimmers that have been very happy with them. I think that those model years also look the best, aside from the E30 of course. Everything e60 and up look horrible. Now that Bangle is gone, maybe things will turn around. I'll never forgive him for the X6.

I like my dads E90 335xi better than his old E46 330xi. So far more reliable too at this point in time as well. Knocks on wood though the high pressure fuel pump doesn't fail like it has for others. Besides the N54 and N55 models, BMW's that have the N52 have been solid.

 

[Synchromesh]

The discussion was not about how they ranked with other brands. It was about the alleged horrible reliability problems they are apparently plagued with.

For the money people are being charged they should be far more reliable than any Honda/Toyota. I did notice that European and Japanese/American term "regular maintenance" tends to differ quite a bit.

Example: my previous '93 Accord had 160K miles on original shocks and clutch when I sold it. Current Integra has 130K, all original shocks and clutch. Other than timing belt, a radiator and regular stuff like oil/brakes I haven't changed much on it since I owned it for almost 6 years. Now if it was a used BMW of same vintage with same mileage, chances are I'd be changing expensive pieces often. Simply because Naz... errrrr... Germans think it's ok to call all those pieces "regular maintenance".

If you want examples, here is one. Had a coworker a couple of years ago who had an E39 540i. Timing CHAIN (not belt!) on it went causing $4K in damage and requiring a new head. Car had about 100K on it. I can go on and on about people having very expensive problems with their older BMWs. Point is: they're for people who only care about the badge on the hood. I'm positive that if they were to put some other badge (say Mitsubishi) on the same exact car vast majority of posers wouldn't buy them.

 

[quagmire]

If you want examples, here is one. Had a coworker a couple of years ago who had an E39 540i. Timing CHAIN (not belt!) on it went causing $4K in damage and requiring a new head. Car had about 100K on it. I can go on and on about people having very expensive problems with their older BMWs. Point is: they're for people who only care about the badge on the hood. I'm positive that if they were to put some other badge (say Mitsubishi) on the same exact car vast majority of posers wouldn't buy them.

Welcome to the luxury car market. Perception and image sells the car. Why people believe the Germans are so great. Why people think Cadillac's are for old people despite their newer cars like the CTS/-V and SRX. Why people say the Corvette isn't great due to it having an OHV engine, uses a leaf spring as part of its rear suspension, doesn't handle( not true), etc.

Perception rules almost everything from the car industry to the electronics industry.

BMW's are great vehicles. They do give you one the best driving experiences you will ever experience. But, 90% will not be driven the way they were designed for( racing on a track).

 

[SevenInchScrew]

It is also based on easily available documentation that you can find if you spend one-tenth the time googling instead of posting. If you're too lazy to research it, you're not worth conversing with.

I looked at 2 of the 3 places that YOU suggested. I skipped the third, as it was asking for a subscription, plus I'm on my phone. But, if you'd rather just not share your "easily availavailable" sources, and just end the discussion, fine by me.

Simply because Naz... errrrr... Germans think it's ok to call all those pieces "regular maintenance".

Charming. Yea, I'm DEFINITELY done with this "discussion" now. Auf wiedersehen.

 

[leenak]

I personally hate BMWs but it is mostly because of their 'typical' owners. I saw a brand new BMW yesterday and my first thought was that they are starting to copy Audi design because it looks just like the newer Audis that have been coming out in the last couple years.

There are some nice, unique cars on the market but they certainly aren't BMWs

 

[QuarterSwede]

YOU HATE MY CAR!!! :'( *acts emo*

No, this is a box!

What's wrong with a box? it's better than looking like a BMW

You're one of those Nissan Cube fans aren't you? *barf*

Sadly I'd buy a BMW anyway. If I drove my 300 to my future job the fellow nerds will probably mock me and laugh for liking detroit/canadian metal instead of THE ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINEEE!!!!! :O

They ought to be liking the superior tech (for everyday use) of current Fords. MyFord Touch is hard to beat. Most fellow nerds I know don't care much about the car mechanics. How it interfaces with their smartphones is much more important to them (and me).

 

[QuarterSwede]

Yeah, no handling. That's why it is one of the fastest production cars around the Nurburgring or is one of the fastest cars in C&D's lightning lap, etc. Why the C6-R is dominate in the Le Mans races( the Z06 is based off the C6-R) The C6 Corvette is no muscle car. It is a bit tail happy if you put too much throttle in the corner, but other than that it is a pretty good handler.

You can watch the review of the 2011 Corvette Z06 here. It does require skill to drive a Corvette. It isn't a GT-R where computers help you out.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1102_2011_chevrolet_corvette_z06_test/index.html

I drove a 2011 Corvette GS at GM's Main Street in Motion driving event. They allowed you to go all out on the 'Vette. The handling of the Corvette is no joke.

I'll admit I've never driven one but from what I understand even some pros think it's too much work to keep under control. I don't like computers doing all the correction as it takes some of the control away but having them help is a good thing. Ex. No human can fly an F-22 without the computers help. The best cars these days require computer assistance to function optimally.

 

[MacNut]

I hate the Chrisler front ends. They are huge and too flat.