Why is everyone so obsessed with an OLED Mac?

[scaramoosh]

I've an OLED TV, OLED 27 inch monitor and my is OLED..... I've not got anything against OLED. However I have a Macbook Pro M1 Max next to all these displays and the Macbook is 99 percent as good in the blacks, but it's MUCH brighter when opening a white window like Google. The Macbooks now have so many dimming zones that you rarely notice any blooming and you can get perfect black borders on movie content like OLED.

The things I noticed with all my OLED panels is they're great for blacks, but they're really bad in near black, they often just clip and you lose detail compared to even a standard backlight LCD. The other thing I notice is when displaying a single colour like white or especially grey, you see how the display isn't uniform. Often the display is a bit noisy, you really see this on grey and it is so distracting once you notice it.

But the number one issue (other than them being useless for displaying bright white over a full window), is how they have image retention and sometimes it goes away, sometimes it does not. Like on my iPhone right now I have the white bar and the info at the top permanently burned in. If I display a full grey image it makes it really obvious and it only took two years to do this, people are going to keep a £3000 Macbook for way longer. I have it on my monitor too that I used with Windows, the bar at the bottom is just burned in now and that only took a six months.

I cannot see any downsides in using these FALD panels of Apple's. I think if Apple just keeps using them until Micro LED becomes a viable thing, OLED wont ever be needed as it just has too many downsides.

 

[leman]

OLED won’t replace the miniLED display on the MBP, but it has the potential to bring the MBA closer to the miniLED one. The ultimate goal would be to make each pixel its own HDR dimming zone, but that will probably have to wait until microLED.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

For me it’s about the response times. Apple LCD/MiniLED displays have such bad response times on all their devices it’s kind of odd.

 

[leman]

For me it’s about the response times. Apple LCD/MiniLED displays have such bad response times on all their devices it’s kind of odd.

From what I understand slow response times are very common among high-quality displays aimed at creative and workstation markets. It appears that it’s a trade off between image quality, power consumption, and response times, and premium manufacturers often choose the first two.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

From what I understand slow response times are very common among high-quality displays aimed at creative and workstation markets. It appears that it’s a trade off between image quality, power consumption, and response times, and premium manufacturers often choose the first two.

I would need a reference for this claim. I’ve done a lot of in depth display research over the years and have never heard this from any reputable source.

 

[MRMSFC]

I want a CRT Mac again, screw newer display technology.

 

[bobcomer]

I want an OLED iMac! My wallet might not want that though.

The color and contrast is soooo much better with my vision, if I have a choice, I'd take OLED over anything.

 

[poorcody]

I'm with the OP -- I think the current screens are great and I don't want to have to worry about burn-in. I would risk it for an external monitor, but not for a laptop I want to keep for years and is so $$$.

 

[senttoschool]

OLED laptop displays seem to decrease battery life by a sizable amount. Coupled that with potential burn in and lower brightness, I don't think I'd trade my minLED display in until OLED displays get drastically better.

Battery Power Online | OLED Display’s Impact on Battery Life for Consumer Tech Devices

www.batterypoweronline.com

 

[leman]

I would need a reference for this claim. I’ve done a lot of in depth display research over the years and have never heard this from any reputable source.

Absolutely!

Here are some reviews of contemporary laptops aimed at the creative professional market that I was able to find with a cursory search (and you will find links to more reviews within those). Note the display response times:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5560-workstation-review-The-Quadro-RTX-A2000-boost.568606.0.html

Lenovo ThinkPad P1 G4 Laptop Review: BIOS update provides more CPU performance

Notebookcheck tests the Lenovo ThinkPad P1 G4 with the Core i7-11800H and the Nvidia T1200 GPU and evaluates the CPU performance with the latest BIOS version.

www.notebookcheck.net

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ProArt-StudioBook-Pro-15-W500G5T-Review-Powerful-workstation-with-weaknesses.502442.0.html

HP Book DreamColor (widely regarded as probably the best laptop display panel on the market for the last 10+ years) used to be extremely slow, but seems to be gotten much faster in the recent models:

HP ZBook Studio G5 (i7, P1000, 4K) Workstation Review

We review the HP ZBook Studio G5, a very powerful HP laptop with the Nvidia Quadro P1000 and the Intel Core i7-8750H. As a mobile workstation, the ZBook competes against the Dell Precision 5530 and the Lenovo ThinkPad P1.

www.notebookcheck.net

https://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-ZBook-Studio-16-G9-laptop-review-Workstation-with-120-Hz-DreamColor-display.667804.0.html

Of course, Apple's miniLED response time are bad even by those standards:

Apple MacBook Pro 16 2023 Review - M2 Max challenges GeForce RTX 3080 Ti

Notebookcheck reviews the new Apple MacBook Pro 16 2023 with the M2 Max, 64 GB RAM and Mini-LED display.

www.notebookcheck.net

I suspect this was the only way to achieve good battery life with the current miniLED technology. Overall, they did a good job. Can't say that the slow response time is noticeable at all in real life.

 

[jayryco]

On my 16inch M2 Max, I frequently see the light leaking from bright whites into the blacks, not quite daily but multiple times a week this occurs in my professional workflow. I believe this is the main issue with miniLED and potentially why a different or superior screen technology might be (once again) game changing.

 

[clam zero]

Another advantage of LCDs is longer lifetime since the organic compounds (especially for the blue sub-pixels) don't degrade with time and use. As a moderate enthusiast of old Macs, the prospect of not being able to use a laptop one day because the color balance has deteriorated is just deeply weird and off-putting. (This also applies to the Vision Pro; I can't imagine the initial headsets will be worth very much by the time MicroLED models appear.)

That said, I really wish users could toggle between localized and uniform brightness on the MiniLED MBPs. There are plenty of legitimate uses for such a feature (gaming, working in applications with dark UIs, simply checking how an image would appear on the average display) so I'm somewhat surprised that Apple has omitted it. I have my sights set on next year's 16" MBP so once I have sufficient standing to complain about it I plan to do what I can to persuade them to add this option. Hopefully if I can at least persuade them that it's worth considering for Game Mode in macOS Sonoma that will set things in motion.

 

[leman]

That said, I really wish users could toggle between localized and uniform brightness on the MiniLED MBPs. There are plenty of legitimate uses for such a feature (gaming, working in applications with dark UIs, simply checking how an image would appear on the average display) so I'm somewhat surprised that Apple has omitted it. I have my sights set on next year's 16" MBP so once I have sufficient standing to complain about it I plan to do what I can to persuade them to add this option. Hopefully if I can at least persuade them that it's worth considering for Game Mode in macOS Sonoma that will set things in motion.

Surprised that you'd mention gaming. I always thought that local dimming was amazing for gaming since it can display HDR content much more convincingly than other display technology. Disabling it for gaming would take away one of the key advantages these displays have for games IMO.

 

[Falhófnir]

Seeing the poor response times of the miniLED displays Apple uses vs the extremely smooth iPhone Pros has brought me around to OLED. I can actually appreciate ProMotion on the iPhone whereas I literally cannot tell the difference on the iPad, or from what I've seen of the mLED MacBook Pros.

If Apple can solve the RGB problem so they don't have to use PenTile panels, that solves the biggest snag I can see (the resolution would have to be astronomical on a 13"+ display to get good enough pixel density to hide the PenTile sub pixel layout. It looked awful on early OLED phones with under 400ppi).

 

[clam zero]

Surprised that you'd mention gaming. I always thought that local dimming was amazing for gaming since it can display HDR content much more convincingly than other display technology. Disabling it for gaming would take away one of the key advantages these displays have for games IMO.

I'm sure it looks great in open-world RPGs and such. I was thinking more along the lines of Minecraft and RTS/MOBA type games where there's a lot of abrupt camera movement and/or the graphics aren't hyper-realistic. That definitely seems like an area where the slow response times of the MiniLEDs could be bothersome (but take that with a grain of salt as I haven't confirmed it myself).

 

[Basic75]

I want an OLED iMac! My wallet might not want that though.

The color and contrast is soooo much better with my vision, if I have a choice, I'd take OLED over anything.

Different use cases, different requirements. I definitely don't want an OLED Mac. I use my Mac for work and some parts of the screen always display the same things, plus for my line of work IDGAF about contrast ratios, black levels or colour spaces. IPS with LED backlighting works perfectly well.

 

[Basic75]

On my 16inch M2 Max, I frequently see the light leaking from bright whites into the blacks, not quite daily but multiple times a week this occurs in my professional workflow. I believe this is the main issue with miniLED and potentially why a different or superior screen technology might be (once again) game changing.

That's why I don't like miniLED. Given the choice I'd have taken the 16" M1 Max MBP with traditional one-zone LED backlighting. It's a transition technology until microLED is ready. It might be a viable choice for televisions where you just watch movies and play games, but for professional use cases it's just rubbish.

 

[Closingracer]

I love OLED. That is primarily why I went to a Samsung Galaxy S2 back in the day. Currently own a Google Pixel 7 Pro, and a OLED monitor. Heck Honestly I would prefer a OLED Laptop as well. But the Reason why i got a Macbook air is partly in fact it hasa bright LCD screen and not oled. At least on Window laptops that I have tried with OLED screens there is this window screen effect I seen when I brought it outside. It was fairly annoying. Burn in isn't something I fear because if you know what you're doing you're going to be fine with it. Never had any burn in.

 

[johannnn]

I have no interest in OLED. I don't care if blacks are 100% black or 95% black.
What I do want is ProMotion on more Macs, especially on some cheaper Macs.
love scrolling in 120hz, it makes such a difference.

 

[bobcomer]

Different use cases, different requirements. I definitely don't want an OLED Mac. I use my Mac for work and some parts of the screen always display the same things,

I have a years old XPS15 with an OLED panel (as well as TV's) and haven't seen any burn in yet.

plus for my line of work IDGAF about contrast ratios, black levels or colour spaces. IPS with LED backlighting works perfectly well.

That I don't know anything about, I'm just an IT guy, but I do like the way OLED looks over anything else, especially for content consumption, but it works in general computing for me as well. It's easier to see fine detail with the better contrast, and I need help with that with my eyesight.

 

[spiderman0616]

I feel like my 14 Pro Max and M1 MBP screens are the nicest screens I own, followed by my Apple Watch and iPad followed by my 4K TV. I don’t know what the screen tech is in the MacBook, but the OLED sure looks nice for media on my phone.

 

[Sn0wLe0pard]

Why is everyone is obsessed with an OLED Mac? Perhaps because these matrices are on phones, where by default there is an unnaturally bright color profile. Perhaps because these people have not heard of PWM.

 

[bobcomer]

Perhaps because these people have not heard of PWM.

Or are not bothered by it..

 

[nexx27]

I've tried the LG 42-inch c2 OLED tv as a monitor. And even tough it supports 120hz hdr and have beautiful colors and costs a fraction of an apple studio display, I've had to sell it and exchange it for the former.

The problem is it gives me bad eye tearing. Also, I don't like the OLED screen because it counterbalances the lights dynamically. For example with you have a small white window, and then maximizes, all the screen gets dimmer because it somewhat shares the brightness between the screen. It really sucks and it is very unfortunate...

Tried many settings to fight eye tearing to no go... Now I'm pretty happy with the Studio Display, can't tell how much I love the audio from the display. I love that even when the screen is off, the audio keeps working. So my midi keyboard keeps playing even when the screen is off. It's amazing... The fonts also looks so crisp. You can't match apple because they control hw and sw... They f#ck#d up the 4K display sellers by removing subpixel rendering from macos.. So right now it is the only option for a decent non-integrated display.

And if the high Apple Studio display bothers you in US, just consider that in Brazil it costs something like 2200 usd... 😢

 

[bobcomer]

The problem is it gives me bad eye tearing.

That's caused by PWM like the other guy was talking about. Some people are effected by it like you, and some, like me, aren't. The only thing I'd suggest get one with a PWM frequency so high you aren't effected, or find one without PWM. Turning your up to 100% brightness might make it more tolerable or make it disappear altogether. Some LCD's also use PWD, and they do effect me, but only if the brightness is set low.

Pulse-width modulation (PWM) in OLED displays | OLED-Info

Pulse-Width Modulation, or PWM, is one of the ways display makers can use to adjust the display's brightness. PWM is considered to be an easy (or cost-effective) way to control the brightness, but it has serious drawbacks, such as flicker that may cause eye strain and headaches. In this article...

www.oled-info.com