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Why is everyone so obsessed with an OLED Mac?

I love LCD screens for computers; it feels so comfortable in the eyes and I priorize that.
I have no interest in mini-LED or OLED in the normal use case.

For video and photo editing and media consumption, obviously mini-LED and OLED are better.
 
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scaramoosh said:
I've an OLED TV, OLED 27 inch monitor and my is OLED..... I've not got anything against OLED. However I have a Macbook Pro M1 Max next to all these displays and the Macbook is 99 percent as good in the blacks, but it's MUCH brighter when opening a white window like Google. The Macbooks now have so many dimming zones that you rarely notice any blooming and you can get perfect black borders on movie content like OLED.
Click to expand...

Try with white tiny text on black background (typical usage scenario for code editors, book readers, terminals, etc..). I've seen the 16" mbp together with an Asus OLED laptop, same stuff on the screen (visual studio code, high contrast dark mode).
The blooming on the mbp's display was VERY noticeable. It's like looking at it with a pair of dirty glasses. The Asus was perfect.

I'll tell you why everyone is obsessed with OLED mac *and* ipad displays. Summarizing:

1. Regular IPS do have substantial uniformity issues, and getting a decent IPS screen is a lottery.
2. IPS has also the glowing and no true blacks
3. Minileds do have horrorific blooming issues, inherent to the technology, i.e. not addressable. Albeit on the mbp that's a bit more moderate than on the 12.9 iPad.

OLED screen would solve both, as long as Apple has the grace to implement DC dimming (e.g., not PWM), and eliminate the infamous tendency to burn in.

I think that Apple is late in putting OLED devices on the shelves lest of burn-in related warranty requests. Since macbooks do have more static display elements w.r.t. the iPads, and no one wants to hide the menubar (for example), I think that we'll see OLED on the iPads sooner than on the Macs and/or the standalone displays (studio, xdr, etc..).
 
balnazzar said:
What exactly is that 'windows screen effect'?
Click to expand...
Perhaps he was talking about "reflection". Matte screen should be better. But OLED screens are usually glossy which are pretty bad outside under direct sunlight.
 
leman said:
Absolutely!

Here are some reviews of contemporary laptops aimed at the creative professional market that I was able to find with a cursory search (and you will find links to more reviews within those). Note the display response times:

www.notebookcheck.net

Lenovo ThinkPad P1 G4 Laptop Review: BIOS update provides more CPU performance

Notebookcheck tests the Lenovo ThinkPad P1 G4 with the Core i7-11800H and the Nvidia T1200 GPU and evaluates the CPU performance with the latest BIOS version.
www.notebookcheck.net www.notebookcheck.net

HP Book DreamColor (widely regarded as probably the best laptop display panel on the market for the last 10+ years) used to be extremely slow, but seems to be gotten much faster in the recent models:

www.notebookcheck.net

HP ZBook Studio G5 (i7, P1000, 4K) Workstation Review

We review the HP ZBook Studio G5, a very powerful HP laptop with the Nvidia Quadro P1000 and the Intel Core i7-8750H. As a mobile workstation, the ZBook competes against the Dell Precision 5530 and the Lenovo ThinkPad P1.
www.notebookcheck.net www.notebookcheck.net

Of course, Apple's miniLED response time are bad even by those standards:

www.notebookcheck.net

Apple MacBook Pro 16 2023 Review - M2 Max challenges GeForce RTX 3080 Ti

Notebookcheck reviews the new Apple MacBook Pro 16 2023 with the M2 Max, 64 GB RAM and Mini-LED display.
www.notebookcheck.net www.notebookcheck.net

I suspect this was the only way to achieve good battery life with the current miniLED technology. Overall, they did a good job. Can't say that the slow response time is noticeable at all in real life.
Click to expand...
All these laptops you picked are 3-4yrs old when the reviews were published. Your original statement is still baseless and is simply a personal assumption based on old tech.

Here are some CURRENT laptop reviews spanning from workstation, creative, and gaming. All under 10ms response times.




 
balnazzar said:
3. Minileds do have horrorific blooming issues, inherent to the technology, i.e. not addressable. Albeit on the mbp that's a bit more moderate than on the 12.9 iPad.
Click to expand...
Bummer, I just ordered a new 12.9 iPad Pro today! I've been reading more manga lately and the bigger screen was too much of a draw for me over my current 10" iPad Pro.

Not really, I don't think bloom will bother me that much, but we'll see. I have an OLED Samsung tablet too, but it's just not quite big enough to read manga comfortably.
 
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Sheepish-Lord said:
All these laptops you picked are 3-4yrs old when the reviews were published. Your original statement is still baseless and is simply a personal assumption based on old tech.

Here are some CURRENT laptop reviews spanning from workstation, creative, and gaming. All under 10ms response times.




Click to expand...

Most laptops I have referenced are contemporaries of M1 Max, so not really sure why you think that my claims are baseless. Three of the examples you show are gaming laptops with poor color accuracy and one has an OLED workstation panel with lower color accuracy and brightness compared to the LCD panels. It does seem like new high-end OLED panels tend to have exceptionally good response times, but that does not come for free.
 
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I much prefer MiniLED over OLED. We are still some time away from MicroLED making that not an option.

OLED is fine as long as they don’t slap aggressive PWM on it. If you look at the PWM numbers between the 12.9 IPP and the 16” MBP (Both being MiniLED) it’s clear Apple is doing this for battery life numbers. So, I would not hold my breath on that issue changing anytime soon.

As far as the tech goes, MiniLED is much more resilient and does not need to be throttled or tamed like an OLED display. IMO, If you are an HDR enthusiast, there is NO comparison. Due to the nature of the displays, MiniLED is much brighter and can stay there for far longer than OLED.

Blooming is a side effect to the FALD lighting system with MiniLED. Especially if the display is pumping out high nit content. However, OLED can also be prone to color shift and or the need for recalibration as the panel ages.

I dunno.. for me, I prefer the impact of HDR that the set and forget MiniLED offers. Example: Resident Evil Village looks INCREDIBLE on my M2 Max. I was floored with the sustained peak brightness and contrast.

If they do make the transition, it will be a give and take away situation.

This will not be the same as Nintendo Switch Vs Nintendo Switch OLED. Now, if it were that situation, I would be all aboard that train.

MiniLED’s can be built without banding, DSE and with very minimal blooming under HDR/DV conditions. That’s just up to the OEM and price ones willing to pay. For example, my Sony Z9K has zero blooming with SDR/HD/4K content. Yes, once HDR/DV is enabled I might get a touch, but I’m also pushing 3000+ nits.

There have been some good advancements with IPS within the last year. Although, still prefer a good VA, especially on a larger display.

All display tech have their cons.
 
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“The Macbooks now have so many dimming zones that you rarely notice any blooming and you can get perfect black borders on movie content like OLED.”

We shall agree to disagree, shall we? I very much notice both the imperfect black levels and blooming on mine. However, they are without doubt the best I’ve ever seen on an LCD display and rarely bother me. Unlike the display on my 12.9” iPP which I find horrible. Definitely prefer the lacklustre 11” display to the garish 12.9” one.

I have and adore an OLED gaming monitor, yet I constantly sweat the burn-in. And yes, low lumen output. So no, I also feel that OLED is not the solution. My dreams of microLED continue to go unrequited…
 
Maven1975 said:
I much prefer MiniLED over OLED. We are still some time away from MicroLED making that not an option.

OLED is fine as long as they don’t slap aggressive PWM on it. If you look at the PWM numbers between the 12.9 IPP and the 16” MBP (Both being MiniLED) it’s clear Apple is doing this for battery life numbers. So, I would not hold my breath on that issue changing anytime soon.

As far as the tech goes, MiniLED is much more resilient and does not need to be throttled or tamed like an OLED display. IMO, If you are an HDR enthusiast, there is NO comparison. Due to the nature of the displays, MiniLED is much brighter and can stay there for far longer than OLED.

Blooming is a side effect to the FALD lighting system with MiniLED. Especially if the display is pumping out high nit content. However, OLED can also be prone to color shift and or the need for recalibration as the panel ages.

I dunno.. for me, I prefer the impact of HDR that the set and forget MiniLED offers. Example: Resident Evil Village looks INCREDIBLE on my M2 Max. I was floored with the sustained peak brightness and contrast.

If they do make the transition, it will be a give and take away situation.

This will not be the same as Nintendo Switch Vs Nintendo Switch OLED. Now, if it were that situation, I would be all aboard that train.

MiniLED’s can be built without banding, DSE and with very minimal blooming under HDR/DV conditions. That’s just up to the OEM and price ones willing to pay. For example, my Sony Z9K has zero blooming with SDR/HD/4K content. Yes, once HDR/DV is enabled I might get a touch, but I’m also pushing 3000+ nits.

There have been some good advancements with IPS within the last year. Although, still prefer a good VA, especially on a larger display.

All display tech have their cons.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Just disagree on that we have quite different sensibilities. The blooming on FALD drives me bonkers. PWM on the other hand hasn’t been noticeable to me. I have another friend whose sensitivities extend to motion blur, which I notice but am not overly put off by… except when scrolling text on my iPads… 120Hz is nicer than 60Hz but it does not remotely fix the issue for me.

Bring on uLED…
 
bobcomer said:
Not really, I don't think bloom will bother me that much, but we'll see. I have an OLED Samsung tablet too, but it's just not quite big enough to read manga comfortably.
Click to expand...
Please keep us posted, I'm eager to hear about how you evaluate the miniled screen vs. the OLED...!
 
Closingracer said:
on Window laptops that I have tried with OLED screens there is this window screen effect I seen when I brought it outside.
Click to expand...
What exactly is that 'windows screen effect'?
vanc said:
Perhaps he was talking about "reflection". Matte screen should be better. But OLED screens are usually glossy which are pretty bad outside under direct sunlight.
Click to expand...

Apple glossy screens are treated with an anti reflective coating which is quite effective. I have an ipad pro, a M1 mba and a lenovo glossy convertible laptop.
I can assure you that the lenovo is quite a PITA to work with, unless the environment is very dim, while the apple devices are usable even outdoor.
As a matter of fact, I think they are the best possible compromise. Matte screen look too grainy, and imho one should avoid them unless working on a sunny balcony is the main usage scenario.
 
leifp said:
The blooming on FALD drives me bonkers. PWM on the other hand hasn’t been noticeable to me. I have another friend whose sensitivities extend to motion blur
Click to expand...
Same here. Sensitive to full array blooming, insensitive to PWM.
Also I spent a lot of money for a 27" 144Hz 4K display. I swear I cannot notice any difference with my other 27" 4k 60 Hz monitor. And I scroll a lot.
By contrast, I had the occasion of playing with a Studio Display in a store. It's perfect, no matter its 60 Hz. It's night and day with respect to my two quality 4K display.
The contrast is better, the text sharper, the glossy surface makes any content better. It's a bit reflective, but the store had an unrealistic level of environment illumination.

..But 1600eur for a 1-input monitor with a damn fixed power cable.. My dog will chew it for sure, just because it's not user replaceable.
 
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Meanwhile I've decided that if the 4th gen (ips) 12.9 ipad resurfaces on the refurb official store, I'll buy it. I'm sick tired of waiting for this phantomatic "maybe oled" 14 inch ipad ultra.
 
Maven1975 said:
All display tech have their cons.
Click to expand...
True. But I still have to comprehend how a professional laptop should have a display optimized for media consumption and gaming. A *very good* IPS screen (e.g. like the HP dreamcolor zbooks') would have made more sense...
 
leifp said:
however, they are without doubt the best I’ve ever seen on an LCD display and rarely bother me. Unlike the display on my 12.9” iPP which I find horrible.
Click to expand...

I wonder why.. I mean, I noticed that too. Moderate blooming on the mbp, horrible blooming on the ipad. Difference in number of dimming zones?
 
balnazzar said:
Also I spent a lot of money for a 27" 144Hz 4K display. I swear I cannot notice any difference with my other 27" 4k 60 Hz monitor. And I scroll a lot.
Click to expand...
I'm the same, I really don't notice any difference in scrolling either. My 27" iMac, at 60Hz, is the best monitor I have.
 
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scaramoosh said:
I've an OLED TV, OLED 27 inch monitor and my is OLED..... I've not got anything against OLED. However I have a Macbook Pro M1 Max next to all these displays and the Macbook is 99 percent as good in the blacks, but it's MUCH brighter when opening a white window like Google. The Macbooks now have so many dimming zones that you rarely notice any blooming and you can get perfect black borders on movie content like OLED.

The things I noticed with all my OLED panels is they're great for blacks, but they're really bad in near black, they often just clip and you lose detail compared to even a standard backlight LCD. The other thing I notice is when displaying a single colour like white or especially grey, you see how the display isn't uniform. Often the display is a bit noisy, you really see this on grey and it is so distracting once you notice it.

But the number one issue (other than them being useless for displaying bright white over a full window), is how they have image retention and sometimes it goes away, sometimes it does not. Like on my iPhone right now I have the white bar and the info at the top permanently burned in. If I display a full grey image it makes it really obvious and it only took two years to do this, people are going to keep a £3000 Macbook for way longer. I have it on my monitor too that I used with Windows, the bar at the bottom is just burned in now and that only took a six months.

I cannot see any downsides in using these FALD panels of Apple's. I think if Apple just keeps using them until Micro LED becomes a viable thing, OLED wont ever be needed as it just has too many downsides.
Click to expand...
Only few monitors are using mini-LED which proves that it's hard to manufacture and not popular. Not only that LCD/LED has fundamental issues to deal with and even mini-LED monitors still have them. Since mini-LED is already difficult to make still not widely being used due to many technical issues, can't imagine how long will it take to use micro-LED. For that, it would be better to improve OLED to replace LCD/LED and mini-LED displays. In many ways, OLED is great and superior except for burn-in.

www.thelec.kr

[영상] 애플 아이패드에 탑재된다는 투스택 OLED는 어떤 제품? - 전자부품 전문 미디어 디일렉

진행: 한주엽 디일렉 대표출연: 이기종 디일렉 기자-이기종 기자님 모셨습니다. 이기종 기자님 안녕하십니까. 지금 애플 아이패드 보도를 그게 우리 쪽에서 먼저 보도한 거예요?“다른 쪽에서도 하고 있습니다. ...
www.thelec.kr
But Apple already asked Samsung and LG to develop dual layers or stacked OLED which has 4 times longer lifespan and twice the brightness for iPad Pro and Mac series a while ago and LG already used their dual stacked OLED for vehicles. If OLED technology can be improved, I don't think we need LCD/LED and mini-LED techs in near future. micro-LED might be good or better but since even mini-LED still not a major tech for monitors, I don't think micro-LED won't be coming soon at all so why not OLED?

mini-LED technology is just improved backlight and it will never be our future and it's still not able to adapt for many devices as of today so it's already hopeless.

Yes, OLED will be the future of display as long as they resolve some issues such as burn-in, power consumption at max brightness and white, manufacturing price, and more.
 
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My iPad Air 2 was fine for more than 4 years of heavy use. Then a color plane went wonky and it became very uncomfortable to use. One of the effects of the display defect was that burn-in became all too evident. It does happen to LCD screens as well as to OLEDs, but it is mostly not that noticeable and takes ten or fifteen thousand hours.
 
bobcomer said:
That's caused by PWM like the other guy was talking about. Some people are effected by it like you, and some, like me, aren't. The only thing I'd suggest get one with a PWM frequency so high you aren't effected, or find one without PWM. Turning your up to 100% brightness might make it more tolerable or make it disappear altogether. Some LCD's also use PWD, and they do effect me, but only if the brightness is set low.

Pulse-width modulation (PWM) in OLED displays | OLED-Info

Pulse-Width Modulation, or PWM, is one of the ways display makers can use to adjust the display's brightness. PWM is considered to be an easy (or cost-effective) way to control the brightness, but it has serious drawbacks, such as flicker that may cause eye strain and headaches. In this article...
www.oled-info.com www.oled-info.com
Click to expand...

It's better to not have PWM at all in the first place.

I don't suffer from eye fatigue problems in general, but I do feel "fresher" at the end of the day working on the Apple Studio Display, than if I was working on the 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro display directly.

No PWM > PWM with high-frequency.
 
balnazzar said:
I wonder why.. I mean, I noticed that too. Moderate blooming on the mbp, horrible blooming on the ipad. Difference in number of dimming zones?
Click to expand...

You only see blooming on the iPad in dark rooms with the lights off. And you shouldn't be watching movies in a dark room in the first place because it is bad for your eyes.

In a cinema or with OLED it's different because the brightness is low, unlike with an iPad that can blast 1600 nits to your eyes.

mini-LED is in the end far superior to OLED. If you take your device outside on a sunny day, you will need the extra brightness mini-LED can provide. And the best part is, it won't kill your display unlike with OLED.
 
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sunny5 said:
I don't think micro-LED won't be coming soon at all so why not OLED?

mini-LED technology is just improved backlight and it will never be our future and it's still not able to adapt for many devices as of today so it's already hopeless.

Yes, OLED will be the future of display as long as they resolve some issues such as burn-in, power consumption at max brightness and white, manufacturing price, and more.
Click to expand...

You just answered your own question. OLED still has problems that are difficult to overcome in scale. MiniLED is a transitory technology that helps achieving results before superior technology is available.

As to why not more manufacturers use miniLED - it’s expensive, difficult to get right, and requires complicated controllers. Most customers are ok with inferior LCD or OLED displays do manufacturers don’t bother. Apple is pretty much the only one maintaining high standards in consumer displays, because of principles.
 
balnazzar said:
What exactly is that 'windows screen effect'?
Click to expand...
You know what a window screen looks like right? now on a laptop.... I had owned an ASUS Zenbook 14X which has a 2.8K OLED panel which I loved until I went outside with it. It looks like it has a window screen in front of the display. Problem is I needed the laptop for portal use like using it outside which is one of the reasons why I got a MacBook Air M2 and instead of the M1 because of the LCD 500 nits display.
 
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