Because you are thinking like Apple and ignoring the fact that the iPhone is available outside the us
you might be able to use email as a good replacement but some countries cannot
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Why is everything with iPhone such a struggle?
- Thread starter Knique
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Because you are thinking like Apple and ignoring the fact that the iPhone is available outside the us
you might be able to use email as a good replacement but some countries cannot
I semi agree, i have had an iphone since uk day one up to my 3gs and it did feel for me (in the UK anyway) that apple did miss lots of expected things out, the idea of a high end phone that wasn't 3g seemed so silly and the low end camera and lack of bluetooth functions etc and no mms pissed me off too, however the pros out weighed cons by a mile and now the iphone does practically everything i want it to do and even though they did miss lots of expected things out it does appear they listened to customers to a point.
Is this just related to the simple rule that as you increase complexity, the more things will break down? That comes with a big caveat, which is provided you have the same amount of resources for each approach.
For example, say Apple tries to do everything right away. Wouldn't there be a good chance much of it is buggy? Rather, they seem to put out what they can, but make sure it works good (with the full realization they can't get every feature in).
So you ask yourself, would you rather have a phone that has missing features but generally works great or one with more features where even the core functions struggle?
To me, the choice is clear. Get the main stuff working as well as you can, put your energy there. Then add on bells and whistles once everything is working.
To me it makes sense and I am a very satisfied (well way beyond satisfied). Believe, I REALLLLLY want the remote control functions for stereo bluetooth!!! How could they not implement that (rhetorical)? I am not happy about that, but in the grand scheme it is an amazing product and nothing else comes close to it for me needs....so I will just accept that shortcoming. However, I am pretty sure apple will get around to it as well. I don't have that confidence with competitors.
Windows user since 3.1, always disliked Apple (was not a big fan of iTunes/DRM). But once I was introduced to the iPhone (on my second now), I think I realize why so many people are satisfied with this company.
For example, say Apple tries to do everything right away. Wouldn't there be a good chance much of it is buggy? Rather, they seem to put out what they can, but make sure it works good (with the full realization they can't get every feature in).
So you ask yourself, would you rather have a phone that has missing features but generally works great or one with more features where even the core functions struggle?
To me, the choice is clear. Get the main stuff working as well as you can, put your energy there. Then add on bells and whistles once everything is working.
To me it makes sense and I am a very satisfied (well way beyond satisfied). Believe, I REALLLLLY want the remote control functions for stereo bluetooth!!! How could they not implement that (rhetorical)? I am not happy about that, but in the grand scheme it is an amazing product and nothing else comes close to it for me needs....so I will just accept that shortcoming. However, I am pretty sure apple will get around to it as well. I don't have that confidence with competitors.
Windows user since 3.1, always disliked Apple (was not a big fan of iTunes/DRM). But once I was introduced to the iPhone (on my second now), I think I realize why so many people are satisfied with this company.
I must say I used to be a strong hater of everything apple but once I got my hands on the iPhone OS especially 3.0 I was and stll am blown away.
Other phones can tether, but AT&T is going to charge $30 to do it. It would be nice to have some small tethering service that was free in case you wanted to send like two files from a MacBook one time, but I don't see that happening.
My only real complaints about the phone are the e-mail app doesn't merge accounts like Mail does and I'm getting antsy for more of the over-the-air services that I see on other devices. If a BlackBerry can do something over 3G, then the iPhone should be allowed to as well.
It was very telling when Apple put up that slide showing a comparison of apps at WWDC, and left out Windows Mobile, so the iPhone would look better:
A major reason to use WM is its freedom. A lot of non-programmers use the simple script app MortScript to create their own homepage displays. Instead of acting like all their users are helpless idiots and need control, Apple should act more like when their HyperCard days, giving power to the user.
Speaking of WM, analysts like iSuppli now think that it will reclaim the #2 position (behind Symbian) in the years to come.
I think that watching Microsoft is like hearing the Pearl Harbor misquote, "I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant". If/when MS ever gets serious about WM, look out. The WM devices these days have incredible hardware; they just need the OS updated.
Exactly. In my opion they have always had incredible hardware and I always wondered why they weren't used as widespread even before the iPhone came out. Before the iPhone came out the smart phone was the blackberry I always had this thought that one day windows mobile devices would be on top of the smartphone industry but that seams even more farfetched today with the iPhone and the android devices coming out. If WM devices had better OSs they would in my opion obliterate there competion but devices like the iPhone out of the box offer easier to use OS's and more features. I mean look at the specs of some of those WM devices compared to the iPhone...you really have to think.
It was very telling when Apple put up that slide showing a comparison of apps at WWDC, and left out Windows Mobile, so the iPhone would look better:
![thumb_450_whereswinmo-400x224.png]()
A major reason to use WM is its freedom. A lot of non-programmers use the simple script app MortScript to create their own homepage displays. Instead of acting like all their users are helpless idiots and need control, Apple should act more like when their HyperCard days, giving power to the user.
Speaking of WM, analysts like iSuppli now think that it will reclaim the #2 position (behind Symbian) in the years to come.
I think that watching Microsoft is like hearing the Pearl Harbor misquote, "I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant". If/when MS ever gets serious about WM, look out. The WM devices these days have incredible hardware; they just need the OS updated.
Both good statements. That is why I said earlier in the thread that someone was glossing over some of the plus things about windows mobile. I like the fact that when I needed a doc on my Windows mobile device, I could just drag it to the phone.
Say what you will, and I know I'm gonna get a load of backlash, but I don't care - Apple products blow all other computers & mobile phones out of the water, with solid features, beautiful UI and ease of use/reliability.
Apple don't HAVE to be the best, it's just that the other companies are greedy, and don't want to invest in the YEARS of legacy & legwork which has brought Apple to the standing and respect which they enjoy now. Nokia etc just want an "iPhone killer" NOW, and they will take the cheapest, tackiest shortcut to do so. If Nokia, SE etc pulled their preverbials out, and dumped Symbian for the POS it is, and worked on developing their OWN OS, it may pay dividends - maybe not immediately, but you can't rush a good product.
All people SEE is the interface - the *OS* is what makes iPhone SO easy to use, so beautiful AND such fun to code apps for - I should know, I'm an app developer. These STUPID phone companies just think they can better iPhone OS, by copying what is on the surface. Stupid.
So, call me a "fanboy", but there is a BOATLOAD to be a FAN, OF. Period.
Apple don't HAVE to be the best, it's just that the other companies are greedy, and don't want to invest in the YEARS of legacy & legwork which has brought Apple to the standing and respect which they enjoy now. Nokia etc just want an "iPhone killer" NOW, and they will take the cheapest, tackiest shortcut to do so. If Nokia, SE etc pulled their preverbials out, and dumped Symbian for the POS it is, and worked on developing their OWN OS, it may pay dividends - maybe not immediately, but you can't rush a good product.
All people SEE is the interface - the *OS* is what makes iPhone SO easy to use, so beautiful AND such fun to code apps for - I should know, I'm an app developer. These STUPID phone companies just think they can better iPhone OS, by copying what is on the surface. Stupid.
So, call me a "fanboy", but there is a BOATLOAD to be a FAN, OF. Period.
With Windows Mobile Apps vs. iPhone apps, aren't we talking about offical apps in the app store, where as with WM, we're talking about Fred in his shed.
I believe I read earlier today that there were only about 600 apps in the Windows Mobile Marketplace.
And Apple obvioulsy wouldn't count apps from Cydia. Are we?
And I am not blasting WM. I have used it, it's ok, the devices let it down more than anything, or at least they did when I used them.
I personally would like to see all the various devices merged into one.
On topic though, my iPhone doesn't struggle with day to day activities such as email, web browsing, phone calls, SMS/MMS, browsing the app store and cydia, and playing some light games.
When I go and play some more intensive games, it does lag a bit. Compared to the 3GS mine is slower. I will more than likely be buying the version of the iPhone that comes out in June, if one comes out in June.
And honestly MMS and copy/paste was not a big deal for me. I can count the amount of times I have used both of these features on one hand. The only one that I am impressed with is 'Find My iPhone' and the iDisk application
I believe I read earlier today that there were only about 600 apps in the Windows Mobile Marketplace.
And Apple obvioulsy wouldn't count apps from Cydia. Are we?
And I am not blasting WM. I have used it, it's ok, the devices let it down more than anything, or at least they did when I used them.
I personally would like to see all the various devices merged into one.
On topic though, my iPhone doesn't struggle with day to day activities such as email, web browsing, phone calls, SMS/MMS, browsing the app store and cydia, and playing some light games.
When I go and play some more intensive games, it does lag a bit. Compared to the 3GS mine is slower. I will more than likely be buying the version of the iPhone that comes out in June, if one comes out in June.
And honestly MMS and copy/paste was not a big deal for me. I can count the amount of times I have used both of these features on one hand. The only one that I am impressed with is 'Find My iPhone' and the iDisk application
It's almost the opposite. Other companies spent a decade supporting smartphones that had to start with tiny B&W screens and very simple cpus with little memory. In other words, they had the legacy systems to stay compatible with, and they did the legwork creating the radios and SoC's.
Apple was smart. Jobs killed off smartphone projects and waited until the hardware was ready to pull off a slick device.
Again, opposite. Apple used a dirt simple UI that could be copied in days (and was, by web authors).
Other companies are not satisfied with that, and try to allow so much more, which is why we have this seemingly large divide between something being simple and something being powerful.
Large app stores like Handango have been around for almost a decade.
Unlike that Apple chart, which only showed company owned stores, places like Handango have something like 16,000 RIM apps and I forget, something like over 30,000 WM (corrections welcome). So Apple could've still "won" in number of apps. They just wanted to look lots better for some reason.
Not that it matters. I thought everyone here believed that quality was preferred over quantity... whether it be apps or devices?
WOW! Really?!
I use copy paste all day long! And i like to get pictures of my nephew thats all the way in New Jersey...
Could not have said it better. I agree 100%. And that comparison chart that you showed that's from apple is really half assed on apples part, really did they think they could leave out those two major competitors without people knowing? Maybe if your caitoring to a ignorant market....
I guess you realize that the very interface you so adamantly defend becomes cumbersome for power users with more than 11 pages of apps, which is probably why you find it conveniently easy not to answer and say irrelevant. It is not easy to drag icons from the first page to the last page, re-arrange pages etc. I would venture to say Apple also realized this and gave a intermediate method to re-arrange icons through itunes.
I don't see what you find so hard to use about the winmob interface.
Quote: Say what you will, and I know I'm gonna get a load of backlash, but I don't care - Apple products blow all other computers & mobile phones out of the water, with solid features, beautiful UI and ease of use/reliability.
All people have some interest in finance, whether its your checking account, paycheck, portfolio etc. At least in the US, the financial industry runs on Windows and RIM, from the account officer in the branch to the stock trader. Blowing out of the water, I would say is subjective, dependent upon user and need.
I like all technology, I am not going to stand on a pulpit and rave about one over the other, unless the company who owns the technology pays me handsomely for doing so.
Possibly. However not anytime soon. Especially given the Pink gossip on the interweb.
The big reason why WinMo is falling behind is the fact that 6.0 - 6.5 are CE based, supposedly even 7.x as well. Until Microsoft drops CE (and supposedly moves to NT based - whatever that means), it will not be able to provide the same level of user experience no matter what the hardware is. And, given Apple's relative performance compared to Microsoft in the Mobile arena, makes me doubt Microsoft will ever be a major force in the market, at least any time soon.
Windows Mobile's failing have little to do with the business model, Android has made a great product with a limited set of hardware.(that said I love the iPhone, and it business model is great, but I think MS and Google model can work well too)
I didn't talk about the business model. That was a speculation of the facts facing Microsoft business managers upon trying to fix the problem in front of them.
This is not a flame. Define user experience. I keep hearing this thrown around like a all encompassing mantra, but no definition.
Clutching at straws, much?. Why are you SO desparate to have someone comment in a positive way, about a platform which is plain rubbish?. There IS no user experience, bar a terrible one. Who on earth puts a "start" button on a mobile UI?. Pleasssssseee!!
If you want THE definition of user experience, boot up ya iPhone
.Must say, I am enjoying this debate, it is much more intelligent than the "OMG I dropped my iphone/ hero/ Touch diamond in a bucket of sulphuric acid and Apple/ AT&T/ O2/ Google won't give me my money back!
A further contribution, IMHO, Apple did 2 things right with the iphone:-
1) A compelling user experience via a tightly controlled hardware/ sofware set and innovative UI.
2) A very clever marketing campaign that made the device desirable to consumers lifting it above the "functional tool" into a "must have" piece of kit much sought after by the chattering classes, surely the fact that iphone users tend to fall in the upper percentiles w.r.t intelligence and dispoable income did not come about by chance.
The challenge for the other smartphone players is to beat Apple, to do that they not only have to copy Apple (the fast slick user experience is an expectation now and has to be there), they also have innovate ahead of Apple
and that is the hard part. Microsoft are trying, they have announced their chassis spec (control the hardware), they have a (very limited) market place now, and they are trying to make the interface more appealing (albeit WM6.5 just don't cut the mustard unless you have a nice sexy HTC overlay on top!) the challenge for M$ is to make WM7 utterly compelling, we will have to wait and see. As for android, being "open source" (ish) the possibilities are theoretically endless, as are the risks of fragmentation and marginal revenue models. What will Apple do? this one is difficult - if they want another revolution, do they maintain backwards compatibility to current users or leave them out in the cold? If they opt to maintain backwards compatibility, does this mean that all we get are faster and more capacious versions of the same old, same old.
Whatever happens, the future looks exciting and I for one can't wait!
A further contribution, IMHO, Apple did 2 things right with the iphone:-
1) A compelling user experience via a tightly controlled hardware/ sofware set and innovative UI.
2) A very clever marketing campaign that made the device desirable to consumers lifting it above the "functional tool" into a "must have" piece of kit much sought after by the chattering classes, surely the fact that iphone users tend to fall in the upper percentiles w.r.t intelligence and dispoable income did not come about by chance.
The challenge for the other smartphone players is to beat Apple, to do that they not only have to copy Apple (the fast slick user experience is an expectation now and has to be there), they also have innovate ahead of Apple
and that is the hard part. Microsoft are trying, they have announced their chassis spec (control the hardware), they have a (very limited) market place now, and they are trying to make the interface more appealing (albeit WM6.5 just don't cut the mustard unless you have a nice sexy HTC overlay on top!) the challenge for M$ is to make WM7 utterly compelling, we will have to wait and see. As for android, being "open source" (ish) the possibilities are theoretically endless, as are the risks of fragmentation and marginal revenue models. What will Apple do? this one is difficult - if they want another revolution, do they maintain backwards compatibility to current users or leave them out in the cold? If they opt to maintain backwards compatibility, does this mean that all we get are faster and more capacious versions of the same old, same old.
Whatever happens, the future looks exciting and I for one can't wait!
Apple are not trying to "fool" you - they are selling iPhone, and they do things the way they do, for a reason. Think of this; imagine bluetooth file transfer had been available from day one, and NOONE had used it (improbable)... so all the whiners would say "iPhone has useless features, like the bluetooth... etc" - they would get slated for packing in a boatload of apps that were either redundant, or badly thought out & rushed efforts. At least with Apple, they take their time to do it PROPERLY (*cough* Nokia *COUGH*) and supply the features that their users ask, by LISTENING to their users.
Nokia phones are a pathetic joke - spray-painted plasticky, clunky, overflowing with useless, disorganised, badly categorised "features" that are difficult to find, and when, eventually, you DO find them, they are either total rubbish, OR are total rubbish AND intuitive AND take ages to load AND crash!.
Android?... another App store clone... with the usual utopian "Open source" nonsense behind it.
Vendors should just abandon Symbian & Windows Mobile altogether - I mean WHEN will they learn?!. They're trying to emulate iPhone with terrible clone apps, but they STILL don't "get it" - OSX and Apple's philosophy as a whole, is the reason for success, not just a pretty front end - the BACK END is most important. "A wise man builds his house upon a rock" <--- the Bible says, and this carries through here - pretty UI on SH*TTY OS'... which leads me to...
Oh look - it too, wants to be iPhone!
http://www.htc.com/europe/product/hd2/overview.html
It STILL uses Windows mobile - when will you people learn?...
Dear Glossy, re your last comment about the HD2 wanting to be an iphoneeven if it did (which I don't think it does) why would you have a problem with that?