Why is MacRumors getting a lot of hate?

Discussion in 'Site and Forum Feedback' started by MacBH928, Jan 21, 2017.

  1. MacBH928 macrumors 68020

    MacBH928

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    #1
    I have recently read a post by /r/Apple mods at Reddit saying "We’re watching this place slowly turn into something akin to the MacRumors forums".

    I don't understand why so many people like to hate on MacRumors. This site have been online for a very long time reporting the latest on Apple news. Moderators on the forums allow everyone to experience his opinion and criticism, unlike other places where you will be banned for making any comment that is not considered a "compliment".

    Forum members here are very friendly and I get a lot of help from them, and I have seen them help many more others. So why the hate?
     
  2. sunapple macrumors 65816

    sunapple

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    #2
    Haters on the internet tend to hate everything on the internet. It usually shouldn't be taken too seriously.

    I personally enjoy these forums and don't know of another place with this much info, activity and helpful people.
     
  3. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #3
    I read that post, too. He was talking about all the trolling on here and how he didn't want /r/apple to end up the same way.
     
  4. Ulenspiegel macrumors 68030

    Ulenspiegel

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    #4
    Oh well... "the tired" "/r/Apple mods at Reddit", "the #1 place to discuss Apple" (SIC!) should've minded their own businees.
    This is the post on Reddit and the part in question:

    "The truth is, we (the mods) are tired. We’re tired of dealing with the trolls. We’re tired of dealing with the negative attitudes. We’re tired of dealing with the constant bickering, name-calling, childish behaviors, and incessant desire to complain about the same things over and over again. We’re watching this place slowly turn into something akin to the MacRumors forums, and that's something none of us want to see happen. We love this place, and we're very motivated to make sure it stays the #1 place to discuss Apple."

    And to be crystal clear "/r/Apple mods at Reddit", the above cited post is called classical trolling.
     
  5. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #5
    Is this in regards to Apple products forum over at Reddit? If so lol. :) The mods at Reddit, can either put effort into moderating or cut down on their audience by cutting offenders out. But if they want to run forums, effort is required. Imo trolling is sometimes hard to identify. You don't want trolling? Rely on effective moderation, get a new audience, or shut your forum down. ;)

    The follow on paragraph is my speal about political discussions which I was ready to launch, when I realized they might not be talking about politics. :D However, some of the following applies because it involves people in any kind of a discussion. I disagree completely with the description of MacRumors as being some kind of a uncivilized, unregulated war zone, especially if outside the realm of political discussions. Every corner of MacRumors I visit besides PRSI is pretty darn friendly for typical discussions.

    If a web site allows something along the lines of PRSI forum, this is part of the landscape, there is no way around it. It's impossible to have a political discussion without contention, bickering, complaining, childish behavior, and some trolling, but this is where moderation comes in. And PRSI discussions are intellectual, contemporary, interesting, morally and philosophically intriguing and mostly kept to a contentious, but civil level. :)

    However, that said, and I've said this before, the PRSI forum at MacRumors is the best moderated political discussion forum I've had the pleasure of participating in. This is a cake walk compared to other online forums especially Facebook which is a horror show in comparison, flaming, name calling, insulting, degrading comments is the norm. It's a jungle, survival of the intellectually fittest. I feel fortunate to have this releatively civil outlet at MacRumors. :D
     
  6. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #6
    There are two threads in the Site and Forum Feedback section that address this somewhat.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macrumors-has-become-a-cesspool-of-haters.2027512/
    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/excessive-vulgar-language.2016056/
     
  7. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #7
  8. ThisBougieLife, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017

    ThisBougieLife macrumors 65816

    ThisBougieLife

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    #8
    It seems there are two general but somewhat unrelated complaints about MacRumors: those that deal with the Apple side of the site (it's too negative, we're "haters", it's nothing but complaining about Apple) and those that deal with PRSI (it's toxic overly-politicized flaming). None of these complaints are totally unfounded--there is a lot of bitching about Apple here, some of it justified, some of it exaggerated and ridiculous. And PRSI is a fairly toxic place, no doubt--I was surprised to find it here. Sometimes it comes off as a right-wing echo chamber--not what I was expecting from an Apple forum. That said, I've never actually been flamed or attacked there, despite how opinionated I am, so there's a way to keep it rational.

    Overall my experience on this forum has been positive despite these things, so I don't exactly sympathize with all the disdain for this site, but I'll be perfectly honest, I've been a member of multiple forums since I was 12 and they all have some sense of "this site is going downhill" about them. This seems to be what we think about everything in general. For some reason and to some extent humans need to be in a constant state of "everything used to be better, we're going downhill, but we can save it!" It's a mindset that I've never truly had myself so I don't entirely understand it. But whether it's internet forums or the country itself, it's there.
     
  9. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #9
    I think it's because it's rare to see a forum that allows this much verbal freedom.

    Take iMore for example, they removed so many posts that sometimes there would be a 10 page thread reduced to 1.

    I was banned from iMore because I was an ambassador over there and I couldn't stand the censorship. Me and about 5 other people wrecked chaos.

    When you aren't cursing, name calling, etc but are voicing your opinion and you get censored, it feels like communism.

    Everyone would rather read positive stuff but reality isn't always positive. That's why I like it here and probably why many complain about it too.
     
  10. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #10
    Well, I think you mean it feels like authoritarianism.
     
  11. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #11
    Excellent and well argued post.

    Re attracting attention on PRSI, as you become better known, - trust me - that will (inevitably) happen.

    However, with regard to Apple itself, its world, products, founder, and so on, there are two distinct yet ardent perspectives which tend to arouse the most by way of emotion (and ire).

    These are those who uncritically revere the company and the person of the Founder (best expressed by the "if Steve was alive" type of thread, or post), while the other deplores the current commercial priorities of the company - where profit seems to have triumphed over innovative design, - especially at the expense of further developing the computing arm - and instead, longs for the days when it was a company whose products were aimed at an esoteric technological elite.
     
  12. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #12
    Yeah. That could be a better word. It was very stifling when you couldn't even say things like "My iPhone has an uneven backlight" without getting a post removed.

    I've heard they are a bit less controlling now but I haven't been back after a moderator decided to say I was a "Crazy American lout". I'm female and he knew it.
     
  13. MacBH928 thread starter macrumors 68020

    MacBH928

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    #13
    They are complaining and seem to be on the "Reddit" side, I am defending. I come here daily, I don't see the cesspool of haters or vulgar language. Maybe its in the politics forums, but thats a side thing and not a core part of the MacRumors site.
     
  14. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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    #14
    You asked why, and I pointed you to two threads where people are answering that question in their own words. You don't have to agree with what they are saying, but I thought you'd appreciate the help answering the question you posed in the title of this thread.
     
  15. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #15
    "Cesspool of haters" is an exaggeration, but there are plenty of trolls on here.
     
  16. Zenithal Suspended

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    Sep 10, 2009
    #16
    Reddit's userbase seems to be made up of children and whinging windbags. People are allowed to have differing opinions. If the administration here only wanted positive Apple posts, then this would be a dull place. Obvious trolls are often called out here and dealt with accordingly by the administration or users detracting from their falsely opinionated posts by carefully composed posts with data to backup and and address the troll.

    The internet was never meant to be a safe space meant for harmonious attitudes among users. There is a clear different between not liking the direction a company is taking and bilking loyal fans of said company and being a destructive idiot whose sole goal is to wreck havoc. Now, if you were describing PRSI... then that's a different matter altogether.
     
  17. keysofanxiety macrumors 604

    keysofanxiety

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    #17
    MacRumors is a great community and there are lots of helpful people in the forums. It's one of the best websites out there for assisting people with Mac, PC, or general technical problems. However I don't think Reddit were talking about that part of MacRumors.

    The issues with toxicity and haters doesn't just come from PRSI, but from front page articles. Almost every comment there is some snarky "Tim Cook must go" rant. Anybody who refutes what they say, or even ask them to provide a citation for their wild claims, is labelled a spineless Apple apologist who can't think for themselves.

    I think that's the part that Reddit are talking about. Just click on any old article and you'll see the top comments underneath, which 9 times out of 10 are toxic. That's the public image that guests reading articles see. A bunch of pandering crybabies, indulging in mutual gratification by upvoting each other's hyperbole-ridden rhetoric.
     
  18. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #18
    Agreed. There is a difference between authoritarianism and communism.

    True, unfortunately.

    And - bizarre though it may seem, and unpleasant though they are - successful trolls appear to have developed some serious skills, as it takes a perverse degree of being able to recognise and finesse matters so that one is able to skate on the right side of - that is, an unsuspended side of - what might be considered trolling.
     
  19. MacBH928 thread starter macrumors 68020

    MacBH928

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    #19
    thanks for posting, but I was more concerned with the outsiders view of MR over the actual members. But I see now why you posted the threads
     
  20. ChrisChaval macrumors regular

    ChrisChaval

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    Aug 30, 2016
    #20
    What's Reddit anyway?

    I find tons of good information here and do get really nice support if needed

    Never had a problem
     
  21. annk Administrator

    annk

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    #21
    I'm glad you have a good experience of the forum!

    To answer your question, I think there are a few reasons:
    • Not everyone understands how very subtle users who want to troll can be. Many of them have learned how to stay just under the radar. We often have to follow and discuss the posting patterns of suspected trolls for quite a long time before we can be certain that they are trolling and not simply expressing unpopular opinions. When things take time, it can seem like we don't moderate trolls. And even those users who DO understand how subtle trolls can be can get frustrated at times.
    • Related to the first point: we choose to err on the side of the user when we are at all in doubt. That means that if it's possible that a user MIGHT be expressing an unpopular opinion, we will wait until we're sure before we moderate for trolling. This has pros and cons, to be sure. If we were much stricter there would be fewer comments open to interpretation, but there would also be less freedom for expression. It frustrates some users because they are sure that their definition of trolling is trolling (and for them, it is!). I understand the frustration, but charged with moderating as fairly as possible, we choose to give users the benefit of the doubt if we're at all unsure.
    • Some users choose to focus on an aspect of the forums that's problematic because that aspect is especially important to them. In doing so there's a danger that they lose sight of the big picture and no longer see all the good here. A forum as large as ours (over 1 000 000 registered users) will have users with very different wishes and opinions about how things should be run. It's unfortunately impossible to find a balance that will please everyone, so we've landed on an extensive set of rules (and we adjust it when we feel it's needed).
     
  22. I7guy macrumors G5

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    #22
    I actually chuckled when I read the bolded. There's out and out trolling, which seems to get addressed adeptly by the staff, and there's the more subtle trolling.

    The subtle trolling, which @annk speaks of, consists of patterns of innocuous synonyms for out and out trigger words that would immediately get moderated. Sentences that have the format: "I can't wait to see how the Apple likers will respond when the iphone 8 comes out and it's a direct copy of ?, the very phone they originally bashed" fits the mold of subtle trolling (at least imo).

    It's annoying as anything to read stuff like that. Having said that, the moderators are addressing that type of behavior, as I've noticed that certain posters who have engaged in a pattern similar to the above example are now banned.

    There is a lot of freedom for expression. Shouldn't be that hard to have some civil discourse and many members know how to do it. However, a small percentage can make an online community unpleasant.
     
  23. Macman45 macrumors demi-god

    Macman45

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    #23

    It's traditional here. Take it from a old hand creaky typing, the hate debate has always been a part of things here at MR and the internet is full of trolls and trouble seekers, guy's with a dozen empty beer cans strewn accross the floor making " informed" comments. You shift through pays your money and you take your choice..:)
     
  24. pat500000 macrumors 604

    pat500000

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    #24
    1) it's a forum (good or bad)

    2) lot of angry people due to Apple directions. I mean...who would be happy if there were no updates on hardwares like Mac Pro or mini?

    I believe the root of the problem is Apple.

    For example: Tim Cook and Apple ended the keynote 30 mins short (October keynote) leaving people high expectation for macs because of "hello again"."

    These days Apple had been focusing more on politics rather focusing on their products.
     
  25. Goatllama macrumors 6502a

    Goatllama

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    #25
    This exactly. Gotta look beyond the surface. And for those that are dismissive of reddit, it's the exact same thing - there's good and bad and it largely depends upon where you're looking and which groups you participate in. Honestly, r/Apple seems pretty similar to MacRumors from what I've seen, the content is just presented in a different format. We most likely share a lot of users, so there's really no need to trade vitriol.
     

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