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Why is Panther so buggy?
- Thread starter scem0
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That doesn't contribute to the topic of this thread in any way since I have already had a bunch of people say that they dont have problems.
I'm not saying that panther is ALWAYS buggy.
Im just asking why it is buggy for so many people.
bleh, why am I even attempting this while in the midst of mac zealots
.scem0
probably has something to do with the huge number of possible configurations people could be installing on, the quirks of one system that needs a fix that breaks 3 other things on 6 other configurations, etc... basically it boils down to, even with Macs, where there is actually a limit to the configuration, the major areas that cause problems in the PC world exist in the Mac world too (various memory issues, HD weirdness, etc). I know this doesn't "help" but the topic was a question, not a call for help
Bah, I didnt mean to make this post. I was trying to hit the edit button and clicked quote .
Well, to neoelec (in the post below) - He said he sold it because he was buying a G5, he was very honest throughout the transaction.
Plus, I dont have that many problems. Only 3 crashes, two of which were from when it was waking up from sleep, which it doesn't do anymore.
scem0
.Well, to neoelec (in the post below) - He said he sold it because he was buying a G5, he was very honest throughout the transaction.
Plus, I dont have that many problems. Only 3 crashes, two of which were from when it was waking up from sleep, which it doesn't do anymore.
scem0
Hmm. Maybe the reason the person was selling it on eBay is because he himself was having issues with it just as you are?
---just a thought.
---just a thought.
Originally posted by scem0
That doesn't contribute to the topic of this thread in any way since I have already had a bunch of people say that they dont have problems.
I'm not saying that panther is ALWAYS buggy.
Im just asking why it is buggy for so many people.
bleh, why am I even attempting this while in the midst of mac zealots
scem0
Don't call me a zealot and it's Mac, not mac.
I'm usually the one with no problems to report, but I've had a few. It's obvious that Panther was rushed to allow a 2003 release. Jaguar wasn't much better really as very few people could actually print from the initial release since CUPS threw everything off.
You can attribute a lot of complaints to people with customisations/haxies. These break the rules and need to be version-specific to run. Many people blame Apple because these things don't work after an operating system upgrade, but since they're using illegal entrances into the operating system, they shouldn't be working at all. Remember how many people complained about Transparent Dock when 10.2.8 was released? "My dock is gone." "10.2.8 ate my dock."
I did two Upgrades and one of the upgrades gave me a problem with the built-in firewall. I went ahead and did an Archive and Install afterwards, but found that it was unnecessary later. A simple command would have fixed it.
Hopefully 10.4 will have the ability to customize the user interface so that third party hacks will be less of a problem. The problems with broken permissions should also be a thing of the past. When a crash happens the operating system will recover automatically and repair itself. And monkeys will fly out of my ... .
.you're not alone
if its any consolation, I have problems with OSX performance issues. The finder is a piece of crap. I have a dual 1gig g4 with 1.5 gigs of ram and i have to relaunch the finder all the time. I think Panther runs on a lot of systems, but was written for the g5 in mind.
the finder doesn't like to display folders with large sums of files (30,000+). I wait minutes before i can even see files which also gives me the beachball of death and locks up the finder (application not responding). Heaven forbid, i want to move the entire contents of a folder to another... that's an instant freeze. A typical response from a mac zealot is, "why do you have that many files in one folder?" My answer is, why not? Its my machine, its my way of streamlining. The apple zealot, in a condescending tone, tells me to love or leave it. Nice. That's not a real solution, do you think? or better yet "don't copy that many files at once" -- once again, i say, "why not? it saves me time. Now I have to move files in chunks. Where i'm going with this...
Don't tell people to love it or leave it. Don't tell people they should have a way of working that doesn't show the weaknesses of OSX. People should embrace the fringe of computing. Don't tell people their ideas for features are stupid or worthless. If people have to buy an uprgrade every year, people have the right to bitch about things that bother thems and expect features that they want.
This is not the time to start pushing away loyal apple users by telling them to get a pc. They just might take you up on the idea.
if its any consolation, I have problems with OSX performance issues. The finder is a piece of crap. I have a dual 1gig g4 with 1.5 gigs of ram and i have to relaunch the finder all the time. I think Panther runs on a lot of systems, but was written for the g5 in mind.
the finder doesn't like to display folders with large sums of files (30,000+). I wait minutes before i can even see files which also gives me the beachball of death and locks up the finder (application not responding). Heaven forbid, i want to move the entire contents of a folder to another... that's an instant freeze. A typical response from a mac zealot is, "why do you have that many files in one folder?" My answer is, why not? Its my machine, its my way of streamlining. The apple zealot, in a condescending tone, tells me to love or leave it. Nice. That's not a real solution, do you think? or better yet "don't copy that many files at once" -- once again, i say, "why not? it saves me time. Now I have to move files in chunks. Where i'm going with this...
Don't tell people to love it or leave it. Don't tell people they should have a way of working that doesn't show the weaknesses of OSX. People should embrace the fringe of computing. Don't tell people their ideas for features are stupid or worthless. If people have to buy an uprgrade every year, people have the right to bitch about things that bother thems and expect features that they want.
This is not the time to start pushing away loyal apple users by telling them to get a pc. They just might take you up on the idea.
Ah, that old chessnut, a common problem should anyone dare to question Apple around here sometimesOriginally posted by scem0
bleh, why am I even attempting this while in the midst of mac zealots
scem0
i dunno, i would always suggest a clean install when setting up a used computer. if panther worries you, then do a clean install of jaguar instead.
just my .02
-box
Originally posted by yamabushi
Hopefully 10.4 will have the ability to customize the user interface so that third party hacks will be less of a problem. The problems with broken permissions should also be a thing of the past. When a crash happens the operating system will recover automatically and repair itself. And monkeys will fly out of my ...
your port.
I hope that Apple finally allows customisation, before we're all dead and buried. I'm not against it--I'd like different colour choices. I'm just against using hacks to get there. I want my machine to be stable.
Sorry if this is off topic, but I have noticed a new sort of "bug" since I started using 10.3 and yes it is a fresh install, hell I even did the zero out thing for the HD first. Anyway, the problem seems to be in Camino. When you open the first tab, it creates a little bit of the next page above the tab bar, weird huh? Other than that though things seem to be going well. Oh and one other thing, AIM can't seem to do logs anymore. It keeps giving me an error of "out of memory" when I try and do logs. Go figure? so no Panther is not perfect and problems still can crop up even when you do the clean install.
Well, if you want to blame Apple for Apple's software problems, feel free. But Camino and AIM are not developed by Apple. If they worked correctly under Jaguar but not under Panther, it's the problem of their developers - not Apple.
Certainly there are enough bugs that are Apple's fault, that we don't need to pile on them for things out of their control.
Originally posted by Westside guy
Well, if you want to blame Apple for Apple's software problems, feel free. But Camino and AIM are not developed by Apple. If they worked correctly under Jaguar but not under Panther, it's the problem of their developers - not Apple.
Certainly there are enough bugs that are Apple's fault, that we don't need to pile on them for things out of their control.
That's not always true. If you look at changes to OpenGL during Jaguar, you'd see that many games (and other 3D software) were suddenly graphically problematic after 10.2.3 was released; then, magically repaired when 10.2.5 and 10.2.6 were released and the drivers were re-worked.
It's usually a developer problem, but not always.
I agree Panther is very buggy, one of the bugs i can duplicate on demand. The bugs aren't bad, just annoying.
Originally posted by scem0
That doesn't contribute to the topic of this thread in any way since I have already had a bunch of people say that they dont have problems.
I'm not saying that panther is ALWAYS buggy.
Im just asking why it is buggy for so many people.
bleh, why am I even attempting this while in the midst of mac zealots
scem0
You bring up a good point. I should have qualified my statement.
I just think many people don't realize that things like the system APIs change from release to release; so often a program just isn't compatible as-is with a newer version of the OS. Also, a program crashing repeatedly is not the same thing as the system crashing repeatedly - seems obvious, but a lot of people don't seem to see the difference.I actually run into this more when I'm helping friends with Windows problems. They'll invariably call me with the message "Windows is crashing all the time on me", and it'll turn out that Internet Explorer is choking on some page that has a flash plug-in.
Originally posted by Westside guy
You bring up a good point. I should have qualified my statement.
I actually run into this more when I'm helping friends with Windows problems. They'll invariably call me with the message "Windows is crashing all the time on me", and it'll turn out that Internet Explorer is choking on some page that has a flash plug-in.
On Windows, 98 percent of the time, it's the developer's fault. I don't like taking MS' side, but I've found that most C and C++ developers are very bad about checking where their memory is. Overwriting good memory (buffer overruns is just one example) or abandoning something in use is all too common.
I upgraded my iBook from 10.2.8 to 10.3 and didn't have any problems at all (at least, I can't remember any! It was a while ago). But my Power Mac came preinstalled with 10.3.0 and had all sorts of crazy problems (eg. couldn't mount disk images). I had to do an Archive and Install from the Panther DVD to fix it up, but it's behaved itself ever since (except for crashing 3 times yesterday, I haven't figured out the problem there yet).
I use Panther on my 4 main Macs, the 1.42DP, the 867, the TiBook and the AlBook 15". My daughter also has it on her 600 iMac. Absolutely everything is perfect, even really old classic apps work without a hitch (Except for 4X4 Evolution for some reason, but who cares?). My secret, besides luck? A wipe and clean install, even when new.
Since I am in "the business", the few main areas where crashes start (in no particular order): Actually installing Norton, 3rd party enhancements like Haxies freaking out with various apps, bad ram, permissions, bad motherboard or other systemic bug/flaw, hosed pref file, or bad karma.
For you, my money is on ram or systemic issue, even up.
Good luck.
Since I am in "the business", the few main areas where crashes start (in no particular order): Actually installing Norton, 3rd party enhancements like Haxies freaking out with various apps, bad ram, permissions, bad motherboard or other systemic bug/flaw, hosed pref file, or bad karma.
For you, my money is on ram or systemic issue, even up.
Good luck.
I haven't had any problems with Mac OS 10.1 - 10.3... The only bugs I've found are kinda trivial anyway, one small one in Safari and then a really small one in Exposé where the title overlay sometimes stays on the screen.
If its an LCD iMac, Panther shouldn't be having any problems. It sounds like either a RAM or hardware (hopefully not) problem. I just worry that you might get the short end of the stick since you got it on eBay... Best of luck man.
If its an LCD iMac, Panther shouldn't be having any problems. It sounds like either a RAM or hardware (hopefully not) problem. I just worry that you might get the short end of the stick since you got it on eBay... Best of luck man.
I think we can all agree that despite how great panther is (I would never go back to Jaguar), it was obviously rushed out to make the Thanksgiving shopping spree....
One of the things that really pisses me off (only because its so obvious), is that the finder still has the same bugs since 9.0, that is, when maximizing the window when it is full of icons or whatever it manages to almost ALWAYS NOT maximize completely and leave a few pixels on the right or bottom (you can see the scrollbar on the bottom)...I know this cause I had to use 9 at someone's house and was surprised to see the exact same behavior...dissapointing.
Whoever is responsible for the finder should be fired.
One of the things that really pisses me off (only because its so obvious), is that the finder still has the same bugs since 9.0, that is, when maximizing the window when it is full of icons or whatever it manages to almost ALWAYS NOT maximize completely and leave a few pixels on the right or bottom (you can see the scrollbar on the bottom)...I know this cause I had to use 9 at someone's house and was surprised to see the exact same behavior...dissapointing.
Whoever is responsible for the finder should be fired.
Panther can't open Photoshop
I have recently upgraded both my Macs with Panther - and all was fine until I tried to open Photoshop 7. It can't or won't do it!
This is a major bug as I see it. It is also a big problem for me. Does anyone know of a way round it?
I have recently upgraded both my Macs with Panther - and all was fine until I tried to open Photoshop 7. It can't or won't do it!
This is a major bug as I see it. It is also a big problem for me. Does anyone know of a way round it?
Re: Panther can't open Photoshop
Okay, once again, this is not a bug in Panther! You need the updated version of Photoshop.
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=39&platform=Macintosh
Also, if you have Macromedia Studio installed (i.e. Dreamweaver, Fireworks, etc.) you need to download their update - those apps won't work under Panther until you update them.
When you do a major upgrade of your operating system, and find some apps don't work - it is usually not the fault of the operating system. There are exceptions, of course.
Also, when this occurs, it doesn't mean your software is buggy. Software is written against a particular version of the operating system. A newer OS often means the application needs to be updated. Expecting otherwise is just plain unrealistic.
Okay, once again, this is not a bug in Panther! You need the updated version of Photoshop.
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=39&platform=Macintosh
Also, if you have Macromedia Studio installed (i.e. Dreamweaver, Fireworks, etc.) you need to download their update - those apps won't work under Panther until you update them.
When you do a major upgrade of your operating system, and find some apps don't work - it is usually not the fault of the operating system. There are exceptions, of course.
Also, when this occurs, it doesn't mean your software is buggy. Software is written against a particular version of the operating system. A newer OS often means the application needs to be updated. Expecting otherwise is just plain unrealistic.