Why is PCs laptops the display screen is inferior to Apple laptops?

[maflynn]

By which i mean apple don’t cut everywhere, only where it is not so important.

LOL,
The amount of logical gymnastics to justify your statement is impressive. I get that you love apple, but you cannot accuse PCs cutting features, proudly proclaiming apple would never do that when the NEO is staring directly in your face.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

LOL,
The amount of logical gymnastics to justify your statement is impressive. I get that you love apple, but you cannot accuse PCs cutting features, proudly proclaiming apple would never do that when the NEO is staring directly in your face.

Exactly correct. Way too much hyperbole around the Neo. It is what it is, and that is all that it is. We don't have to make it more than that. It's the best low end personal computing device ever made. But it is low end.

 

[HouseLannister]

Why is PCs laptops the display screen is inferior to Apple laptops?

I notice lot of PCs laptops today only have 1920 by 1080 display screen where has Apple laptops are all Retina display like 2.5 K and 3K. Why is that?

Well sure there are some PCs laptops with 3K display but not many and well price over $1,000.

If resolution is all that matters then there are plenty of Windows computers with 4K screens.
And then there are gaming laptops, which want a lower resolution but a higher refresh rate so they can hit high FPS without killing the battery. Typically 1440p at 240hz.
Different priorities.

I would personally prioritize a Windows laptop with better display tech than just the resolution. We had RGB stripe and lots of tandem OLED desktop panels at CES this year. Just got to let them trickle down to the laptop market.
I currently have my eye on this upcoming model (which is 1800p):

I took this Asus laptop for a spin. Panther Lake makes it fly.

The Asus ExpertBook Ultra benefits from the performance of Intel’s new Panther Lake architecture, but it’s also a great premium business laptop in its own right.

www.pcworld.com

 

[klasma]

I notice lot of PCs laptops today only have 1920 by 1080 display screen where has Apple laptops are all Retina display like 2.5 K and 3K. Why is that?

MacOS removed subpixel font rendering while Windows hasn’t (although Windows font rendering got worse in recent years). Apple decided to go Retina-only at some point, while Microsoft didn’t (couldn’t, because they don’t control the hardware to that extent).

 

[Tr3m0r]

No, i said



By which i mean apple don’t cut everywhere, only where it is not so important.

I did not say apple won’t cut anything. I said they don’t cut everywhere in a race to the bottom.

Of course they will cut spec to meet a price point. But not on things that matter outside of performance.

The mac Neo is the finest $500 computing experience that money can buy

This is all based on your own subjective terms and views which I think was the overall point that was being shown. Stating apple will not cut anything of importance cannot be countered with logic and therefore the posters used a way to provide different perspective. It does not have to be a battle because you are not giving the possibility to discuss anything objective. One example I will give is some people have a use case for gaming. They may prefer less color accuracy for a lower quality screen that offers high refresh rates for gaming. It is simply an opportunity cost. Everyone has preferences and biases, but it doesn't have to be a discussion of "all or nothing" brand loyalty.

 

[throAU]

LOL,
The amount of logical gymnastics to justify your statement is impressive. I get that you love apple, but you cannot accuse PCs cutting features, proudly proclaiming apple would never do that when the NEO is staring directly in your face.

Mental gymnastics on your part trying to redefine what I wrote.

I can and will accuse PC vendors of offering nice looking specs (in the layman understandable metrics such as resolution with no mention of things like brightness) only to provide:

• Keyboards that suck to type on
• trackpads that barely function
• screens in the 300 nit range
  • accompanied with windows display scaling that is trash
• WIFI that is 802.11AX or later in chipset but small number of antennas and crap performance
• bluetooth by the cheapest vendor with software support that matches
• Windows built nagware in the form of continual pop ups for 365, one drive, etc.
• additional bundled trial software that exists purely because the company subsidised the machine to get their product preinstalled with a free trial
• etc

I know you love Windows, but you can't honestly claim that the actual user experience of a Mac Neo user and a $500 PC laptop user with no external peripherals, is anywhere close.

Even LTT and other strongholds of PC friendly media (like Toms, etc.) are praising the Mac Neo as a breath of fresh air compared to what's available in the PC space at this price.

 

[throAU]

One example I will give is some people have a use case for gaming.

Find me a $500 laptop PC that runs say, Cyberpunk better.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Find me a $500 laptop PC that runs say, Cyberpunk better.

This thing doesn’t run Cyberpunk well. LOL. I saw it running Tomb Raider and it was dying.

Same with Windows PCs in the $600 price range. They all suck at gaming.

 

[maflynn]

Find me a $500 laptop PC that runs say, Cyberpunk better.

How does the neo run Eldon Ring, or Starfield?

Oh wait it can't but plenty of entry level PCs can.

I know you love Windows,

I do, you say that as some sort of weird insult.

but you can't honestly claim that the actual user experience of a Mac Neo user and a $500 PC laptop user with no external peripherals, is anywhere close.

I'm not making any such claim. I merely pointed out your incorrect assessment.

Even LTT and other strongholds of PC friendly media (like Toms, etc.) are praising the Mac Neo as a breath of fresh air compared to what's available in the PC space at this price.

I'm not down on the neo, its a fantastic computer.

Lets rewind a bit because you seem keen on introducing other topics, shifting the blame and trying to confuse the conversation when its quite simple.

You made a statement that apple does not cut things out to produce a cheap laptop, and I simply pointed out that they did exactly that with the neo.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Never thought I would see Apple putting ads in. WOW. MS is righting the ship. THANKFULLY! I was losing hope for it, but as I mentioned, I think they reigned in Mr. Cloud/Ai and have his leash shortened considerably.

As for the hardware. There is no windows based system thats 14 inches and has a full sized SD reader anymore. Very dumb considering I use this regularly with all my cameras.

I use the SD reader in My Mac Studio, but instead of the SD port I would prefer to have another Thunderbolt port. In this case I would prefer three Thunderbolt ports with more room between them. As it is now the two Thunderbolt ports are too close to each other, which makes plugging/unplugging cords more difficult (the cable terminals or plugs don't leave much room for my fingers). The problem is present only if you have two cables connected to the Mac Studio.

There are a great number of external Thunderbolt hubs that have SD reader and several other ports. I have been pleased with the quality of Anker hubs so far. I use the hubs with card readers with other Macs that don't have card readers.

 

[throAU]

You made a statement that apple does not cut things out to produce a cheap laptop, and I simply pointed out that they did exactly that with the neo.

They don’t cut to the same degree, and don’t severely cut things that matter to the actual user experience.

Maybe i should have been more explicit with my statement but i thought it was obvious in context. Despite my correction, however you’re still being obtuse.

I stated why PC screens are crap. I’ll put it bluntly without referencing apple at all:

PC vendors cut spec on the display in ways the average user doesn’t understand (typical normie barely understands resolution or DPI). They severely cut things like brightness, colour space coverage, contrast ratio, etc. on cheap machines. Its not just the displays either.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

They don’t cut to the same degree, and don’t severely cut things that matter to the actual user experience.

Maybe i should have been more explicit with my statement but i thought it was obvious in context. Despite my correction, however you’re still being obtuse.

I stated why PC screens are crap. I’ll put it bluntly without referencing apple at all:

PC vendors cut spec on the display in ways the average user doesn’t understand (typical normie barely understands resolution or DPI). They severely cut things like brightness, colour space coverage, contrast ratio, etc. on cheap machines. Its not just the displays either.

I am not going to bicker endlessly with you, but I think you are both right and wrong. Windows PC manufacturers do tend to cut corners more in that low to mid range product mix, but not as much as you think, and it will definitely change now that the low end Macbook Neo is here. Competition is good for everyone.

 

[Steve Adams]

I use the SD reader in My Mac Studio, but instead of the SD port I would prefer to have another Thunderbolt port. In this case I would prefer three Thunderbolt ports with more room between them. As it is now the two Thunderbolt ports are too close to each other, which makes plugging/unplugging cords more difficult (the cable terminals or plugs don't leave much room for my fingers). The problem is present only if you have two cables connected to the Mac Studio.

There are a great number of external Thunderbolt hubs that have SD reader and several other ports. I have been pleased with the quality of Anker hubs so far. I use the hubs with card readers with other Macs that don't have card readers.

I have a couple of TB card readers. On my current laptop however, I don't need any extra dongles, doodads, etc to connect anything I own to it. It has a full size SD card reader, TB4 USB port, 2 usb A ports, HDMI and headphone mic combo. PLus the power cord does not take away one of the USB ports.

I like this for when we are travelling and I am doing some photo/video work. I just pop my SD card in, Transfer the files and go to work. I may carry a very thin 2tb HDD with me for storage but usually It stays home. Just depends on how long we are gone for. My workstation at home has a multitude of ports where dongles and doodads are not needed either.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I have a couple of TB card readers. On my current laptop however, I don't need any extra dongles, doodads, etc to connect anything I own to it. It has a full size SD card reader, TB4 USB port, 2 usb A ports, HDMI and headphone mic combo. PLus the power cord does not take away one of the USB ports.

I like this for when we are travelling and I am doing some photo/video work. I just pop my SD card in, Transfer the files and go to work. I may carry a very thin 2tb HDD with me for storage but usually It stays home. Just depends on how long we are gone for. My workstation at home has a multitude of ports where dongles and doodads are not needed either.

I understand. I was referring to my Mac M4 Studio. I don't have any problems with the TB ports of my MacBook since the cable terminals are connected to the ports horizontally. But in the Mac Studio, the 2 TB5 ports are vertical and close to each other. It I only have one cable connected to either one of these ports it is OK, but it is not if I have 2 cables connected because there is no room for my fingers between the plugs should I want to disconnect one of the cables. I do use the card reader port quite often, but the other Macs in my housed Don't have these ports so I use hubs with TB, USB, and card readers card readers.

 

[Slix]

I've noticed it's because most of the users and probably the manufacturers only care about refresh rate and not PPI. To me, this makes nearly every PC screen I've seen look worse than Apple's just because of the lack of crispness. I'm talking about even more expensive "higher end" laptops and monitors, approaching the prices or above the MacBook Airs. By now, in my opinion, they should all be better than they are now, after Apple has included a Retina display for the last 8 years on every laptop, and longer if you include higher end laptops that Apple has made.

 

[Bubble99]

I've noticed it's because most of the users and probably the manufacturers only care about refresh rate and not PPI. To me, this makes nearly every PC screen I've seen look worse than Apple's just because of the lack of crispness. I'm talking about even more expensive "higher end" laptops and monitors, approaching the prices or above the MacBook Airs. By now, in my opinion, they should all be better than they are now, after Apple has included a Retina display for the last 8 years on every laptop, and longer if you include higher end laptops that Apple has made.

Others here said PC makers cut cost more so than Apple that must be the reason.

But some others here said Lenovo and Asus have retina displays.

 

[Steve Adams]

I understand. I was referring to my Mac M4 Studio. I don't have any problems with the TB ports of my MacBook since the cable terminals are connected to the ports horizontally. But in the Mac Studio, the 2 TB5 ports are vertical and close to each other. It I only have one cable connected to either one of these ports it is OK, but it is not if I have 2 cables connected because there is no room for my fingers between the plugs should I want to disconnect one of the cables. I do use the card reader port quite often, but the other Macs in my housed Don't have these ports so I use hubs with TB, USB, and card readers card readers.

Totally get it, my friend.

 

[Steve Adams]

Others here said PC makers cut cost more so than Apple that mat be the reason.

But some others here said Lenovo and Asus have retina displays.

Retina is just marketing jargon. It's 216 ppi. There are dozens of Windows systems that have better than that. better color gamut too.

 

[Tr3m0r]

They don’t cut to the same degree, and don’t severely cut things that matter to the actual user experience.

Maybe i should have been more explicit with my statement but i thought it was obvious in context. Despite my correction, however you’re still being obtuse.

I stated why PC screens are crap. I’ll put it bluntly without referencing apple at all:

PC vendors cut spec on the display in ways the average user doesn’t understand (typical normie barely understands resolution or DPI). They severely cut things like brightness, colour space coverage, contrast ratio, etc. on cheap machines. Its not just the displays either.

you accuse others of being obtuse and that you will be specific but without anything specific being cited. I alreasy replied to your logical fallacies and saw the the manipulation by taking a single sentence to make a reductive reply that didnt include anything meaningful. You are doing this in each reply.

What specifically are you saying with your blunt reply anput screens? You mention things people do not understand but i dont see a single breakdown of displays to make your argument. I see words. I see words like contrast ratio, color space coverage and brightness. And?

I have a feeling this is a mixture of Dunning-Kruger effect and believing this forum should be like old system wars. I grew up with Apple computers until college and beyond as i got into building PCs and gaming. You reduced my entire argument and shifted to a question of "name a $500 dollar computer that can play cyberpunk." I assume most people see what you do by ignoring every single point made and then refining your words and challenges to fit a single point.

There are numerous gaminh budget laptops that will outperform an 8gb bandwidth starved mobile chip. I think i have one around my house somewhere, called Nitro by Acer? It wad only $450 and i got it for my wife to try some games. It had a gtx 1660 and i5 CPU. Though a computer from 2019, it likely is about on par with the Neo if i had to ballpark it since i dont know much about the low end specs of either apple or PC. Im not sure even if the neo would be better than the super outdated steam deck honestly.

The point is, if you want to make an argument bring up the actual comparison head on. No one is saying anything negative of the neo. Seems like a home run. Just because i am not going to pair it with my m5 vision pro, doesnt mean i dont like apple or the neo. I will lilely get a september macbook pro to pair with my AVP. Now since your arguments anout apple and PC are not just about the neo but about the entire product line when you say "apple doesnt make important cuts like PC does" (which again is subjective) lets compare at the high end of macbook pros and enthusiast PC laptops.

How is Apple only providing the good premium components compared to any enthusiast level gaming PC like Razer, Lenovo Legion series, Asus RoG etc? I picked up an open box excellent at microcenter for an Asus RoG Scar 18in Mini LED 2560x1600p HDR with an Intel Core Ultra 9 275hx, 64gb DDR5 5600mhz ram, RTX 5090 mobile 175 watt gpu, 2TB SSD, wifi 7 for $2200. An insane deal for sure and not typical. But there ARE sacrifices for having an SoC and soldered everything onto a board. As much as i love apple, it isnt because of their hardware as much as their software in regard to computers. There are benefits of having over a 1TB/s in bandwidth just from a dedicated GPU. There are benefits of having discreet components. As i also said prior, some may want high refresh 240hz laptop monitors and others want the tech in Apple.

It is NOT only one way that you feudally are campaigning for. It will not be that way either, inside and outside of any forums.

 

[maflynn]

I've noticed it's because most of the users and probably the manufacturers only care about refresh rate and not PPI.

That's because the usage is easier on the eye, i.e., motion, less lagginess and choppiness being felt. Also for games it helps with the overall smoothness and fits well within FPS to keep things running smooth, all else things being equal

To me, this makes nearly every PC screen I've seen look worse than Apple's just because of the lack of crispness

On laptops 4k (and beyond) is wasted in one sense because you cannot run a 4k display at native resolution on a 13"/14"/15" laptop. Everything will be too small.

What apple does is make 1 logical point on the screen, 4 pixels. The resolution you select is a multiple of the native resolution so its easily divisible by 4 and thus it has a nice crispness.

For laptops that works well, for desktop monitors in macos, it breaks down, and the resolution scaling is a lot more limited and rigid. I use BetterDisplay to offer the flexibility and options that macos doesn't offer out of the box.

For instance my 32" 4k monitor running at 2048x1152 in macos, but in windows I run it at 150% which is logically 2560 × 1440 the text looks a lot crisper in windows and I have more screen real estate.

Others here said PC makers cut cost more so than Apple that must be the reason.

But some others here said Lenovo and Asus have retina displays.

I've owned a thinkpad X1 Extreme that uses a 4k display on a 15" display panel, and to be honest, I've had to scale it 200% which gives me effectively a 1080P resolution. At that point I figured why not just buy a 1080P laptop which my next one was. No regrets, my Thinkpad T14S is excellent and I don't see any downsides to it not being 4k

 

[Steve Adams]

I found apple's definition of "retina".

A Retina display is Apple’s trademarked high-resolution screen technology where individual pixels are so densely packed that they are virtually indistinguishable to the human eye at a normal viewing distance.

I have retina displays on ALL my devices as I cannot see individual pixel on any of my devices at normal viewing distance. Right from my 100 dollar samsung travel tablet to my 24" ultrasharp dells on my workstation.

I love how that term "retina" is thrown around like it means something. It's a marketing term to make Apple displays seem somehow superior to the competition. The display on the 1000 dollar apple iphone 16 was "retina", meanwhile the display on a 300 dollar Motorola was better via specs.

Don't get me wrong, the displays on the macbook air and pro are awesome. But not because they are "retina".

 

[maflynn]

I love how that term "retina" is thrown around like it means something.

Yeah, its thrown about like its an actual specification, when its just their marketing term. I will say its a thing only for apple fans. In dealing in the real world, its a nothing burger.

 

[Steve Adams]

Yeah, its thrown about like its an actual specification, when its just their marketing term. I will say its a thing only for apple fans. In dealing in the real world, its a nothing burger.

Yes, exactly. That's the point I was making. Apple users and fans throw it around like it's something. The display on my ipad is awesome, but it's not as good as the display on my samsung tablet. It's just not. Not that the iPad is bad, it just NOT as good as the sammy.

I use both daily as well as my laptop. I don't see any pixels on any of my devices at working distance. All are great.

 

[maflynn]

I notice lot of PCs laptops today only have 1920 by 1080 display screen where has Apple laptops are all Retina display like 2.5 K and 3K. Why is that?

What resolution should a 14" monitor be, if not 1080p?

The neo a 13" display panel has a native resolution of 2408 x 1506. I'm pretty sure 99.99% of the people do not use the Neo using the native resolution but rather the default of 1308x838 or one click to the left on the more space slider as 1605x1004

In both of those examples the resolution is lower then 1920x1080

I will contend that my 14" T14S (1920 x 1200) running at 100% native is as crisp if not crisper then the Neo's display running the default resolution, and I get more screen real estate.

 

[pshufd]

I've noticed it's because most of the users and probably the manufacturers only care about refresh rate and not PPI. To me, this makes nearly every PC screen I've seen look worse than Apple's just because of the lack of crispness. I'm talking about even more expensive "higher end" laptops and monitors, approaching the prices or above the MacBook Airs. By now, in my opinion, they should all be better than they are now, after Apple has included a Retina display for the last 8 years on every laptop, and longer if you include higher end laptops that Apple has made.

I have a Lenovo Yoga 2-in-1 Aura 9i Gen 10. Display is 14 inches and wquxga at 3,840 x 2,400 and 323 ppi. Display runs at 60 hz.

The MacBook Pro 14 and 16 have 254 ppi.

My iMac Pro (5k at 27 inches) has a ppi of 218 but it's my favorite Mac.