Why is retail doing so badly in the US

[BigMcGuire]

Let's see here...

I recently tried to go buy some bird seed for the bird feeder that my wife has outside. Took me 10 mins to get ready, hopped in the car, drove 13 mins to a local pet shop. I find a big 20 pound bag of bird seed that I like (no waste, shelled). I spend 15 mins in line because despite the store having 6 checkout lanes, they only pay one person to check out. I then spend 13 minutes to go back home. (About an hour for anyone counting).

Just for ***** and giggles I ... opened my phone. Amazon had the same bag of bird seed for half cost. Took me less than 2 minutes to find it and order it for delivery to my house - same day. (2 minutes for anyone counting).


More and more people I know are doing delivery because ... again ... especially up here in NorCal, you'll have 10-20 checkout lanes, but only 2 opened and lines going back to the aisles. My wife and I recently spent almost 18 mins in line waiting to check out at a Safeway because of this exact same scenario.

So yeah... double the price of Amazon, the time investment to have the privilege of paying the company 2x, etc... I can see why people are avoiding retail.

Don't get me started on how many malls up here require you to pay for parking. And they wonder why less and less people are going.

That said... when I needed a suit for an interview in less than a week, it was really nice to hit a local Macys and find everything I needed for super cheap... And I hadn't worn a suit for 14 years so I had no clue what size I was. lol. The checkout lady was nice... but while her supervisor was glaring at her, she tried to get us to sign up for a Macy's Credit Card over and over and over. I felt bad because I bet her employment was dependent on getting enough people to sign up per month.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Let's see here...

I recently tried to go buy some bird seed for the bird feeder that my wife has outside. Took me 10 mins to get ready, hopped in the car, drove 13 mins to a local pet shop. I find a big 20 pound bag of bird seed that I like (no waste, shelled). I spend 15 mins in line because despite the store having 6 checkout lanes, they only pay one person to check out. I then spend 13 minutes to go back home. (About an hour for anyone counting).

Just for sh*ts and giggles I ... opened my phone. Amazon had the same bag of bird seed for half cost. Took me less than 2 minutes to find it and order it for delivery to my house - same day. (2 minutes for anyone counting).


More and more people I know are doing delivery because ... again ... especially up here in NorCal, you'll have 10-20 checkout lanes, but only 2 opened and lines going back to the aisles. My wife and I recently spent almost 18 mins in line waiting to check out at a Safeway because of this exact same scenario.

So yeah... double the price of Amazon, the time investment to have the privilege of paying the company 2x, etc... I can see why people are avoiding retail.

Don't get me started on how many malls up here require you to pay for parking. And they wonder why less and less people are going.

That said... when I needed a suit for an interview in less than a week, it was really nice to hit a local Macys and find everything I needed for super cheap... And I hadn't worn a suit for 14 years so I had no clue what size I was. lol. The checkout lady was nice... but while her supervisor was glaring at her, she tried to get us to sign up for a Macy's Credit Card over and over and over. I felt bad because I bet her employment was dependent on getting enough people to sign up per month.

I’ve recently relented and changed my primary credit card to be the Amazon VISA.

I’ve been shopping there and at Whole Foods for a whole bunch of reasons and I figured I might as well be getting some cash back since I’m doing it anyways.

Here we have 6% state tax and if you do the slower prime day delivery, you get 6% back on the card so it wipes out the sales tax for me. 👍

My desire to keep racking up airline miles is more and more limited as time goes on. That’s what I was doing before with an Alaska Airlines Visa card.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I’ve recently relented and changed my primary credit card to be the Amazon VISA.

I’ve been shopping there and at Whole Foods for a whole bunch of reasons and I figured I might as well be getting some cash back since I’m doing it anyways.

Here we have 6% state tax and if you do the slower prime day delivery, you get 6% back on the card so it wipes out the sales tax for me. 👍

Yep yep. That 6% adds up (I have the same card) 😀. It's amazing how much cheaper Whole Foods is with the Amazon Visa too vs Safeway here in Northern CA. Just have to find a non-busy time to go. The employees are way happier too. lol.

 

[MacCheetah3]

I currently work retail...

People are impatient

People hate lines

…. as well as other unnecessary grumpiness plus the general corporate exec slime does equal:

The morale is lower than a sink hole).

Theft is up, so the costs are trickling down to everyone else, making everything more expensive

I don’t know how it’s trending, but theft is certainly substantial/frequent. I’d like to [self censored] for this, although that’s on my morals, not based on company losses. Suffice it to say, while there are still some decent (and even respectable) people, many are truly garbage — and I do hate pointing that out, it’s irritating and depressing. Anyway… That’s another huge discussion.

I would argue that the convenience of online shopping, falling - and stretched - incomes, poor - or inadequate service from traditional stores/shops, changed habits (a tendency that has accelerated even more since the pandemic), have all contributed to this.

However, these are also choices that people make: For all of the undoubted ease and convenience of online shopping, some of these businesses - such as Amazon - treat their staff appallingly and atrociously; this matters to me, and is one of the main reasons I no longer buy anything online, least of all from Amazon - and haven't done so for several years.

Completely agree.

Again, agreed.

Some of Amazon's practices and their appalling and atrocious treatment of their staff - not permitting bathroom breaks, and there was a recent horrific story whereby supervisors prohibited a staff member who had been trained to give CPR from going to the assistance of a colleague who had suffered a collapse (and who subsequently died) - instructing staff to "ignore" their deceased colleague, who lay on the ground, and to continue working around him instead - is disgusting, disgraceful, is utterly inhumane, and is an ethics-free and morally rotten universe, to my mind.

Personally, I prefer not to reward such egregious conduct by giving any business to such a company.

Again, based on working for a large corporation, I’ll tell you this sort of crap is by no means limited to Amazon. So many restricted actions are (I’m confident in concluding) a strong attempt to avoid any level of legal action. And the company will spin it as “It’s (primarily) for your safety and good.” And speaking of restroom breaks. Well… As a “lead/head cashier” during a shift, you’re basically a handcuffed tool. Don’t let a customer be unattended for a second. If you need a restroom break and no one’s willing to err around to help, tough it out, I guess. And if you’re ambitious and willing to actually do your job… Well… Get ready for a lose-lose. I’ve requested assistance many times, as I’m instructed to. I even get dirty looks if I don’t, as if “why didn’t you call someone? We can’t have this line of people.” Yet, no one’s around. Customers have asked/said, “You the only one running the store?” as I sprint from department/area to area. I either joke, “it feels like it” or reluctantly defend lazy coworkers, “they’re caught up in doing other things.” But then also had a shift lead, “You don’t need to try to run the whole store.” AYFKM?! Anyway… I’ll end my seemingly now rant with this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WalgreensStores/comments/1l6wfbh/how_exactly_are_walgreens_responsibilitiestasks

P.S. I’ve seen a similar cluster**** of CSAs needing to be “jack-of-all-trades” and assistance to cashiers being non-existent at the local Dollar Tree as well. And I feel for them. It’s (a) corporate **** (show).

 

[NT1440]

Several reasons:
Gas is expensive (still the most used method of transportation here)
Food, necessities are expensive
Theft is up, so the costs are trickling down to everyone else, making everything more expensive
People hate lines
People hate fumbling with tap-to-pay
People are impatient

Online is often cheaper
Alternative marketplaces are often MUCH cheaper (I can get band shirts on AliExpress for a fraction of the cost here)
Online store inventory is vast
Delivery is often quick
No lines
Discreet shipping
Easy returns
No suicidal employees (been to a Walmart lately? The morale is lower than a sink hole).

Just off the top of my head.

Theft is covered by insurance, it has no impact on consumer good prices in a brick and mortar chain. It’s already built in to inventory checks (referred to as “shrinkage”). These aren’t mom and pop stores.

That’s not an endorsement of theft, just pointing out that’s not how retail works.

 

[Madhatter32]

Theft is covered by insurance, it has no impact on consumer good prices in a brick and mortar chain. It’s already built in to inventory checks (referred to as “shrinkage”). These aren’t mom and pop stores.

That’s not an endorsement of theft, just pointing out that’s not how retail works.

Correction is in order. No offense. A reported burglary, a robbery, or perhaps employee theft, which are provable) may be covered depending on the insurance -- but "shrinkage" (which is undefined inventory loss usually due to shoplifting) is not covered. Sometimes it is passed on to the supplier (per agreement) but usually it's a write-off.

 

[conmee]

This is all great news! If theft is covered by insurance and/or written off (“Do you even know what a write-off is? No. But they do and they’re the ones writing it off!” - Kramer), and staffing is inadequate, and companies would rather someone roll out of the store with a basket of unpaid goods than suffer bad PR or get the law involved, do you know what this means? The only “victims” are the honest customers actually paying for things. I mean if it’s true the cost of theft isn’t passed on to other paying customers, and it doesn’t sound like the cost of theft is passed onto society, sounds like a victimless crime to me. We’re only doing ourselves a disservice by paying up, so it’s high time we all get our piece of the pie. I see now why the flash mobs are so popular/successful between inadequate staffing and potential loss of a job due to company policy keeping employees at bay, there’s never been a better time to get ahead in America! /sssssss

 

[Madhatter32]

This is all great news! If theft is covered by insurance and/or written off (“Do you even know what a write-off is? No. But they do and they’re the ones writing it off!” - Kramer), and staffing is inadequate, and companies would rather someone roll out of the store with a basket of unpaid goods than suffer bad PR or get the law involved, do you know what this means? The only “victims” are the honest customers actually paying for things. I mean if it’s true the cost of theft isn’t passed on to other paying customers, and it doesn’t sound like the cost of theft is passed onto society, sounds like a victimless crime to me. We’re only doing ourselves a disservice by paying up, so it’s high time we all get our piece of the pie. I see now why the flash mobs are so popular/successful between inadequate staffing and potential loss of a job due to company policy keeping employees at bay, there’s never been a better time to get ahead in America! /sssssss

I know your post is in jest/sarcasm but just in case there is confusion (this is MR after all), a "write-off" is a tax term -- a setoff against income. The loss is actually an operating expense on the income statement, which is paid by the company (not insurance in most cases). It's not "victimless" as the company, it's shareholders, investors (including retirements accounts), consumers and other stakeholders all bear the costs.

 

[conmee]

I know you post is in jest/sarcasm but just in case there is confusion (this is MR after all), a "write-off" is a tax term -- a setoff against income. The loss is actually an operating expense on the income statement, which is paid by the company (not insurance in most cases). It's not "victimless" as the company, it's shareholders, investors (including retirements accounts), consumers and other stakeholders all bear the costs.

Thanks, @Madhatter32 despite having an MBA and having held finance and marketing roles, I never pass up the opportunity to quote Seinfeld when someone mentions write-offs. 😉

 

[JoeG4]

Man I actually feel the opposite to most people here?

Amazon isn't the cause of the stores closing down. People turned to amazon and other online retail when the stores stopped carrying what they needed or wanted. Then the stores closed down because people stopped going to them lol.

The vast majority of stores in my local mall don't carry much clothing for overweight people, yet the majority of the potential shoppers are overweight. How the heck does that work?! I walk into a store and they tell me I can find the jeans I want online (and indeed, they carry the larger sizes online lol). Then they're surprised I don't bother going to visit them anymore?

But Amazon stinks for buying clothing. The cool stuff is just as slow to ship as buying it from any other retailer and most of their variety is total crap with weird proportions.

Amazon & Walmart are great for stuff like toilet paper and laundry detergent and other home essentials.

I think a lot of malls in the US failed because they relied too much on anchor stores. That's great until 75% of the anchor stores get bought out by Macy's and the other 25% go bankrupt.

 

[LincolnNE]

Theft is covered by insurance, it has no impact on consumer good prices in a brick and mortar chain. It’s already built in to inventory checks (referred to as “shrinkage”). These aren’t mom and pop stores.

That’s not an endorsement of theft, just pointing out that’s not how retail works.

No, that’s absurdly inaccurate. While some theft is insured, it doesn’t cover shrink (unexplained loss). Shrinkage costs the industry $100B+ yearly—eating into thin 3% margins. Guess who pays for the insurance and shrink… customers and employees.

 

[zenmacx]

One thing is the actual experience of being in a pleasant store environment. That was the lesson Waterstones learned in the UK, they put power for what books to stock back in the hands of local teams in order to empower them to provide the best experience for their customers - personal service and recommendations tailored to local tastes.

Plus they made people want to shop at Waterstones: soft lighting, couches to sit in, a coffee bar, stores organised so you can find what you want but are encouraged to explore, knowledgeable staff. So that you can leaf through books at leisure and maybe walk away with something. The result? A ‘destination shopping experience’ and a profitable bottom line.

People love Waterstones in the UK. The last time they had riots the only shop that was untouched was Waterstones, when the Bookfest 2025 was held by the Piccadilly branch people were queueing to get in. Online people are responding by saying how much they enjoy just getting lost in the experience of browsing books for an hour or two.

Sell the experience, not only the product.

Kudo's nice description, sounds delightful!

But alas I live in CA, so that's a bit of a drive...lol 🙂

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Are none of you concerned, - let alone remotely bothered - not even, made to feel just a little uncomfortable, by the way companies such as Amazon treat their employees?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Are none of you concerned, - let alone remotely bothered - not even, a little concerned, by the way companies such as Amazon treat their employees?

Absolutely. But then in general I believe a lot of retail treat their employees pretty poorly.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Are none of you concerned, - let alone remotely bothered - not even, a little concerned, by the way companies such as Amazon treat their employees?

Oh definitely. But my financial situation is not going to survive to going an hour out of my way to pay 2x for a product just so I can avoid Amazon.

All so that these retail stores can hire a tiny # of people (they never re-hired to normal levels after Covid) - overwork and underpay them - trying to offset costs by 2x'ing their product costs.

If these companies would hire more employees, lower product cost - they might see more traffic. As it is, I see more and more people buying Amazon to avoid the growing lines (for the privilege of giving retail stores money), horrible paid parking, and ~2x product costs. Then being begged to apply for a CC or install that retail store's app for a tiny discount...

It's not great all around.

I definitely have reduced my spending significantly because of the above.

 

[rhett7660]

Because the US has been in a recession (in all but official labeling) for 3+ years now. Most of the country lives paycheck to paycheck. Americans are broke and most shopping outside of groceries seem to be handled online these days.

I even do my grocery shopping online now... Been doing it for about eight months and haven't been in a store since. It has been a life saver since my wife is very sick. Getting out is tough and being able to shop for everything online has been a real saver. Between Amazon and Albertson's/Von's, I am covered with about everything. The only time I have to hit a store is for Home Depot or Lowes type stuff... They deliver, but there are times that what I need is so small, it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[JoeG4]

The only time I have to hit a store is for Home Depot or Lowes type stuff... They deliver, but there are times that what I need is so small, it wouldn't be worth it.

Might I suggest mcmaster carr? They are FANTASTIC for small things. The catch is (or was?) that they don't tell you the shipping cost up front, but they are fast and efficient/cheap at it. I also like places like ace, true value, and local lumber yard kinda places.

More and more people I know are doing delivery because ... again ... especially up here in NorCal, you'll have 10-20 checkout lanes, but only 2 opened and lines going back to the aisles. My wife and I recently spent almost 18 mins in line waiting to check out at a Safeway because of this exact same scenario.

Instead of safeway I'd try grocery outlet, winco, nugget/food4less, raleys/nob hill, save mart/lucky/foodmaxx, sprouts, whole foods, trader joes, etc. The smaller chains are usually where it's at!

I feel like the "only 2 opened and lines going back to the aisles" is specifically a safeway problem. Down here in LA area, they do the same thing at Vons all the time and I hate shopping there because of that. Ralphs (Kroger) is just as slimey a company but somehow not nearly as annoying to shop at, and usually considerably cheaper than vons/safeway. But then down here we've got a lot of local chains as well.

All this said, I still really miss the 90s/2000s retail environment. Shopping at Target was a pleasure. Macy's had awesome christmas displays. In the bay area in the 90s WE STILL HAD EMPORIUM. (I was a little kid, but I remember the SF powell street emporium being friggin majestic during christmas time!) They ******tified so hard and so fast, it's really no wonder a lot of people turned to online shopping lol.

Lately the place I see interesting style though isn't even from your usual online retail. I'll see it in (targeted) instagram ads lol. Cool patterns, neat styles of clothes you don't normally see in stores. The stores in the mall are bland bland bland. Amazon sells weird brands like DXFUHDGF and OSDGHDFG and AWEOIHW that tell me I need size 5XL and then it looks cool but fits really weird in the shoulders or crotch or whatever.

About the only thing I can find satisfactory stuff for in the mall are tshirts and shoes. And sometimes not even the shoes lol.

Also why does the mens section in macys still dedicate like 1/5 of the floor space to **** like POLO RALPH LAUREN. Why do I wanna dress like a yuppy did 40 years ago? Pink polo shirts and these weird shorts that go halfway down the thigh? Bro this is just suburban LA we don't need the shirt to match our rolex on the golf course lol.

 

[theluggage]

Are none of you concerned, - let alone remotely bothered - not even, a little concerned, by the way companies such as Amazon treat their employees?

Yes, so I'm going to buy all of my unregulated overseas sweatshop-produced products from bricks-and-mortar stores where they allow their minimum-wage staff 3.7% longer for bathroom breaks than Amazon, or order from other online shops that use different exploitative gig economy cowboys for delivery.

Seriously, though, I do look at alternatives to Amazon where they are viable - but apart from local small businesses I can only think of one large-scale online/physical retail chain that I trust to possibly have significantly better employee conditions than Amazon.

 

[ejb190]

It's not a level playing field anymore. Hasn't been for some time.

I saw a John Stossel report on how Walmart forced Pepsi to provide items at one price but sell them to competing grocery stores at a higher price by threatening to remove entire product lines from Walmarts. It sounds egregious, but I've seen it myself. My parents had an outdoor power equipment store. Lowes was selling the exact same snowblower for a retail price that was lower than our wholesale price. I work in the garden/plant trade now. I have story after story of how abusive the box stores are to their suppliers. And you wonder why the mom and pops can't compete on price...

We also forget about retail stores as a service.

At my parents shop, we were often accused of trying to "upsell" everyone. What we were actually doing was "right sizing" - getting people into the appropriate sized tool for the job even if that tool might be a bit more expensive (or sometimes cheaper/smaller) than they wanted. Most of the people who listened to us were appreciative after they got it home and used it.

I went to a local hardware store looking for a 35mm Forstner bit for a project. They didn't have it, but the employee knew that a 1-3/8" bit (which I already had) was 34.93 mm and probably close enough for what I was doing. I walked out of there with nothing but knowledge gained (and a touch of embarrassment for not thinking of that myself). I could have just ordered the bit from Amazon Prime for less than I expected to pay at the hardware and had it the next day. But look at the knowledge I would have lost! You bet the next time I actually needed something, I went right back there!

 

[CasinoOwl]

Post-covid revenge spending and supply chain problems led to high inflation. As that cooled, corporations took advantage of people's willingness to spend more and greedily raised prices and made record profits. Now we have tariffs and war creating shortages and higher prices. People are finally slowing their purchasing, and the bigger companies are feeling it.

 

[Huntn]

Are none of you concerned, - let alone remotely bothered - not even, made to feel just a little uncomfortable, by the way companies such as Amazon treat their employees?

Yes, so I'm going to buy all of my unregulated overseas sweatshop-produced products from bricks-and-mortar stores where they allow their minimum-wage staff 3.7% longer for bathroom breaks than Amazon, or order from other online shops that use different exploitative gig economy cowboys for delivery.

Seriously, though, I do look at alternatives to Amazon where they are viable - but apart from local small businesses I can only think of one large-scale online/physical retail chain that I trust to possibly have significantly better employee conditions than Amazon.

The US has a retail business model built on slave wages. It becomes difficult for me to single out Amazon, although I acknowledge Amazon is likely too big and powerful and should be subject to anti-trust laws, if there is such a thing anymore… 🤔

 

[turbineseaplane]

Are none of you concerned, - let alone remotely bothered - not even, made to feel just a little uncomfortable, by the way companies such as Amazon treat their employees?

Absolutely I am!

I usually have very little choice on the matter is the issue.

Where I live most of the time (move seasonally), the options are a handful of local stores which carry very little of what I need or a 90 min one way drive to get to .... Walmart, Best Buy and Costco.

I shop locally when able, but have no choice but to backfill with online sellers, all of whom have one issue or another.

 

[MacInTO]

1) Vital organs 2) Weapons-grade plutonium 3) Weed

Probably others, but I can't think of them at the moment.

In Canada, https://www.bccannabisstores.com/

 

[Madhatter32]

The US has a retail business model built on slave wages. It becomes difficult for me to single out Amazon, although I acknowledge Amazon is likely too big and powerful and should be subject to anti-trust laws, if there is such a thing anymore… 🤔

That's one of the problems with retail these days ... they pay their slaves. Kills the bottom line. 😂😂

 

[MacCheetah3]

Then being begged to apply for a CC or install that retail store's app for a tiny discount...

I despise needing to do this. Customers make it clear they dislike me for it, and I understand. Corporate (execs) are harassing employees to do it as much as they want cashiers to harass customers about it. I don’t pressure people into CC or even creating an account. I advise people on the necessity to have an “rewards” account to get (most of) the discounts.

Speaking of rewards accounts and tag prices, I have mixed feelings. The disgustingly disrespectful collection and selling every bit of data that can be amassed about a person when you have an account is loathsome. In other words, offering sales/discounts is absolutely no longer anything to do with enticing customer loyalty and retention. It’s truly just appalling greed. On the other side, even if people aren’t willing to deal with an account, being too lazy and/or dumb to read the mylar/tag that does state — granted, intentionally (at least somewhat) obfuscated by greatly differing text sizes — the large print price requires an account is not an acceptable excuse to make the cashier’s day even worse with misdirected complaining.