I agree here. My BB gets e-mail before my desktop. The BB rules over BB due to push e-mail. It is substantially faster. That and copy/paste. I think that covers it. Everything else rules on the iPhone.
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Why is the Blackberry still better than the iPhone?
- Thread starter Stang68
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I agree here. My BB gets e-mail before my desktop. The BB rules over BB due to push e-mail. It is substantially faster. That and copy/paste. I think that covers it. Everything else rules on the iPhone.
It's all going thru the exchange server first. My email address is on the exchange server. The blackberry server is actively notified by the exchange server. The iphone is checking the server at a given time interval. When I say the blackberry gets email before my desktop, the delay is only several seconds maybe a minute at most. The iphone can take several minutes to register an email after it arrives on my desktop. As I said, for most people the delay is not an issue, but I know some people that will actively "chat" via email in which case a several minute delay in each direction is annoying.
I can't agree with you more... Until they can solve the simple task of handling email/phone call without recharging every 6-7 hours, it cannot replace BB as a business machine.
I was talking about leaving the iPhones to have new batteries INSTALLED.
You have to leave them with Apple. That's a no-no with any IT team.
Then how are you agreeing with what kdarling said?
What he/she said is that iPhone stays connected to the server, hence it gets an instant response like a true "push".
Umm...ok. That's higher priority than having your battery drain out every 6 hours?
"The phone must send a TCP/IP request every once in a while to keep the connection alive"
He didn't say it stays connected. "Every once in a while" is pretty much the same as "The iphone is checking the server at a given time interval."
Hence, the agreement.
Why do you need push email when you can have it check every 15 minutes? And, if you're having an EMAIL conversation, why not just use the really easy and fast refresh button...lol.
Blackberry is not better, regardless of what anyone else has to say.
My guess, is that anyone using a blackberry that says it's better than an iphone 3G simply hasn't had any experience using an iphone 3g...... or, they're an idiot.
Pick which one you'd like to use to describe them....
keeping the connection alive is the same as staying connected...
He's saying the phone pings the server from timing out the connection so when email arrives, it notifies the phone. Both method has very similar end result.
The yahoo mail was SUPPOSED to be PUSHED to the iPhone.
Jobs said that Yahoo would provide a free PUSH email to all iPhone users on stage when he announced the original iPhone.
Though, Yahoo Push has never been reliable at all (at least for me).
So, yes, there was PUSH email on iPhone since day 1.
The reliability of BlackBerry push can't be beat. And I've used both a BB, WinMo and iPhone. WinMo and iPhone like to disconnect from the server and refuse to reconnect every now and then for some reason. It's rare, but it happens, and usually requires a reboot. If I'm a business user and have important e-mails coming to me that must be dealt with ASAP, any sort of delay is unacceptable (and every so often, I come home and open up Mac Mail and find e-mails that arrived in my MobileMe inbox hours ago and never got to my iPhone).
The BlackBerry push is just so much more reliable. RIM's got a massive server farm that's checking your inbox, not a tiny little device reliant on a battery and cellular network. Once their servers find an e-mail, it's sent off to your provider who sends it to your phone in the same manner it sends an incoming call or text, which, you've probably noticed, is extremely reliable and quick.
The iPhone's implementation of push is good enough for personal use, but if I'm running a business and my employees need relabile access to their e-mail while on the go, I wouldn't choose anything other than a BlackBerry
The BlackBerry push is just so much more reliable. RIM's got a massive server farm that's checking your inbox, not a tiny little device reliant on a battery and cellular network. Once their servers find an e-mail, it's sent off to your provider who sends it to your phone in the same manner it sends an incoming call or text, which, you've probably noticed, is extremely reliable and quick.
The iPhone's implementation of push is good enough for personal use, but if I'm running a business and my employees need relabile access to their e-mail while on the go, I wouldn't choose anything other than a BlackBerry
The iphone is not maintaining a constant live connection to any email servers. It is checking for emails every few minutes or whatever interval you set for it. No mobile phone is maintaining a constant live connection to the server. The battery would never last. When you add an exchange server account to iphone, you give it the server's IP address and the password. Then the iphone "logs in" every once in a while to look for new messages. Not even Mobile Me is maintaining a live connection with any email servers as Apple has openly stated that it can take up to 15 minutes to sync.
No. With Push enabled, the iPhone IS keeping a constant connection. It doesn't require much battery life for it to keep a connection open (there's a difference between opening a connection and using that connection to transfer data) but it's most definitely keeping the connection open. That's how the iPhone implementation of push works. It keeps the connection open, so when a new mail comes in, the server can send it to the phone over that connection, rather than wait for the phone to connect and download it.
It's very similar to how AIM works on a computer. A constant connection exists between the AIM client and AIM server, and when you get a new IM, the server sends that out over the connection to your client.
That's fetching and not pushing. PUSH means the email goes to your phone INSTANTLY.
Apple said that the computer takes 15 minutes to update to the server because it is set that way to sync with the server, but once it's synced to the server, that information is instantly pushed to your phone (ok, may be several million nanoseconds delay.. but you get the point
).That's fetching and not pushing. PUSH means the email goes to your phone INSTANTLY.
Apple said that the computer takes 15 minutes to update to the server because it is set that way to sync with the server, but once it's synced to the server, that information is instantly pushed to your phone (ok, may be several million nanoseconds delay.. but you get the point
I understand what pushing is as I have a blackberry. My whole point is that getting emails from the same exchange email account takes several minutes longer on my iphone than it does on my blackberry.
As others said... no. And yes.
No, it's not by hardcoded interval. No, it's not a fetch with an immediate reply and then a long dead space.
Yes, there is a request every X minutes, X being dynamic, depending on network conditions. In other words, if it takes a ping every 5 minutes to keep the connection alive, and the Exchange Server settings allow going that low, it will do so. Or it could end up as every 30 minutes. Or 45 minutes. Whatever it takes to keep a connection alive.
The phone sends the request to the server with a timeout. Then nothing happens until the server either has a response (email/etc "push" notification) or the timeout is about to expire. (It MUST reply either way, or the phone will think the timeout is too long and lower it.)
The upshot is that the "push" should in theory occur as fast as with the Blackberry.
Alright, well I guess we all had bits and pieces of the true picture. Thanks for clearing it up. But as I said, and this is only my own experience, the BB gets emails quicker than the iphone.
Actually you are wrong. What you said isn't correct in all cases. Server and network infrastructure play a bigger role than the recipient device. BB's don't inherently "get email faster"...that's absolutely incorrect. In YOUR environment emails gets to your BB faster...but that's just YOUR environment.
I have a BB Pearl. My email gets to my iPhone before my BB...all the time.
My email gets to my iPhone almost exactly at the same it hits my inbox. My BB sees it a while later. There are some things about the BB that are better as an industrial strength tool for business. But EVERYTHING else is much better on the iPhone. If Apple can improve some of the email and calendar capabilities it will have the BB covered.What a lot of folks forget is Rim has been producing phones for business for years. I've had of several them over the last few years (my companies hands BB's out like candy). The iPhone is still a relatively new device and was initially targeted almost exclusively to consumers. Give it a little time. Apple doesn't have THAT far to go to catch in a couple of key areas. Of course I'm sure Rim will keep pressing ahead. Competition is a good thing indeed.
i do miss the true push on my blackberry pearl but seriously, other than push email i found nothing on the blackberry to really fall in love with, the iphone is in another league of it's own and is a much better multimedia phone.
the way i see it is, so we don't get emails as fast as we would on a blackberry, maybe it takes a minute or two longer, maybe god forbid we have to just fetch every 15 minutes, is it that serious? if the email is that urgent that we just got off the phone with out boss and we need to check the email asap, fine, we go to email and read it, it will update right there and then.
the way i see it is this stupid patent RIM has just means we iphone users have to (for the time being) suffer lower battery life due to the way iphones push email operates.
i'm sure things will improve in the future. for the time being i'm just glad we have the OPTION to use push on our iphone. personally for me, someone who needs to constantly check emails for work, 15 minute fetch does fine.
the way i see it is, so we don't get emails as fast as we would on a blackberry, maybe it takes a minute or two longer, maybe god forbid we have to just fetch every 15 minutes, is it that serious? if the email is that urgent that we just got off the phone with out boss and we need to check the email asap, fine, we go to email and read it, it will update right there and then.
the way i see it is this stupid patent RIM has just means we iphone users have to (for the time being) suffer lower battery life due to the way iphones push email operates.
i'm sure things will improve in the future. for the time being i'm just glad we have the OPTION to use push on our iphone. personally for me, someone who needs to constantly check emails for work, 15 minute fetch does fine.
Your standing on the platform at the train station and the Blackberry train is sat waiting for passengers. It looks a bit boring but reliable and the seats look kind of basic but there is at least space in the carriages - mainly because it's full of sad looking old men. The guard say's they're building a 'new carriage' they're calling the 'touch zone' which you can go in next time you ride the train.
The new Apple train II has just arrived - the entire train is one amazing uber-touch zone plus the Apple train is full of sexy happy people having a great time. It's just cool and fun happenings and you know it's going to be a great journey. Some hot babe leans out of the window and say's 'Hey there, come and get on board'. You shake your head and say, " But I'm a business man' and she replies "hey I'm a business person too but don't mean I'm brain dead to everything else life has to offer'.
Then some dull business man appears next to you, he looks at the sexy blonde and all the antics in the Apple train and shakes his head and tut's disapprovingly. He say's he's been on the Blackberry train and it got him to work on time. He would NEVER ride that Apple train. 'Apple trains are just not my thing. I like my Blackberry train' and strolls off to work.
Suddenly the roof lifts off the Apple train. It's a hot sunny day and the sun is shining in the blue sky. The Apple guard announces today we're going 'topless but we will get you to work on time' and everyone begins to strip off and party...
Question is 'Which train do you WANT TO ride ?'
The new Apple train II has just arrived - the entire train is one amazing uber-touch zone plus the Apple train is full of sexy happy people having a great time. It's just cool and fun happenings and you know it's going to be a great journey. Some hot babe leans out of the window and say's 'Hey there, come and get on board'. You shake your head and say, " But I'm a business man' and she replies "hey I'm a business person too but don't mean I'm brain dead to everything else life has to offer'.
Then some dull business man appears next to you, he looks at the sexy blonde and all the antics in the Apple train and shakes his head and tut's disapprovingly. He say's he's been on the Blackberry train and it got him to work on time. He would NEVER ride that Apple train. 'Apple trains are just not my thing. I like my Blackberry train' and strolls off to work.
Suddenly the roof lifts off the Apple train. It's a hot sunny day and the sun is shining in the blue sky. The Apple guard announces today we're going 'topless but we will get you to work on time' and everyone begins to strip off and party...
Question is 'Which train do you WANT TO ride ?'
I didn't see it mentioned in this thread but one reason why BB is better for businesses is that its fully controllable and configurable by IT departments. They can decide what access you get from your bb, where the email is stored (for auditing), they can do bulk configuration (change the configurations on all their bb's at the same time), remote wipe (in case it gets lost), encrypt data on the bb, multiple (corporate and user) address books, etc etc. Its not just about push email, which bb does very well.
One other thing where bb's are ahead is local storage. Business people usually travel and being able to take documents down onto the phone and work when disconnected (or when data roaming charges are too expensive) is another big thing. I remember in my last job we would get a podcast sent to us which we could listen to when on a plane or whatever.
Another issue is corporate apps (developed in house) - How can a business get these installed on an iphone. Do they have to give it to Apple and get it onto itunes?
Replacable batteries IS another real issue. We had over 2000 bb's in my last company all the same - same headsets, same batteries same cables, same car kits. Batteries typlically only last about a year or maybe 15 months so getting a replacement from the IT group was easy. Can you imagine telling a sales person that they need to send their iphone off to Apple for a couple of days to get the battery changed - oh and btw - under data protection laws the phone has to be wiped before sending to Apple!!
These are the things that tick IT departments boxes and until Apple gets these issues sorted I don't see major IT departments adopting iphones.
One other thing where bb's are ahead is local storage. Business people usually travel and being able to take documents down onto the phone and work when disconnected (or when data roaming charges are too expensive) is another big thing. I remember in my last job we would get a podcast sent to us which we could listen to when on a plane or whatever.
Another issue is corporate apps (developed in house) - How can a business get these installed on an iphone. Do they have to give it to Apple and get it onto itunes?
Replacable batteries IS another real issue. We had over 2000 bb's in my last company all the same - same headsets, same batteries same cables, same car kits. Batteries typlically only last about a year or maybe 15 months so getting a replacement from the IT group was easy. Can you imagine telling a sales person that they need to send their iphone off to Apple for a couple of days to get the battery changed - oh and btw - under data protection laws the phone has to be wiped before sending to Apple!!
These are the things that tick IT departments boxes and until Apple gets these issues sorted I don't see major IT departments adopting iphones.