Really!? I had no idea, I thought that iFixit was the best one to trust. So then you can just cut through the adhesive, and other than that it's probably similar to the old one
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Why is the iMac sealed off?
- Thread starter philz4life
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Really!? I had no idea, I thought that iFixit was the best one to trust. So then you can just cut through the adhesive, and other than that it's probably similar to the old one
I agree. Of course all-in-one computers are less upgradeable than towers, but they should still be accessible to some degree.
iSayuSay
macrumors 68040
The 27" iMac still has RAM door, thus makes it has limited upgradeability. The 21.5" has nothing accessible to the user, but you can always upgrade some of the components from Apple. Yes it is expensive and purely robbery, but it's doable.
It would be great if iMac could have desktop GTX690 or rMBP has GTX680MX because it would render iMac irrelevant. I wish OSX could have run decent games really well like Windows, But hey, some things in life are just what they are. Like I said, it would be great if hotdog is just as healthy as a whole grain food.
Apple simply does not provide all the solution we want. Good looks and great functionality/upgradeability, we just can't have them all.
Simply looks elsewhere. Custom built PC is still a nice alternative if you want flexibility of choice and full access to your components, and it's cheaper too. But hey it can't look as good. It's all about compromise 😉
Have you even thought about what that would mean? Firstly, the cost of a GTX 690 is ludicrous. Secondly, the card itself is very large with hefty cooling requirements. Thirdly it pulls 300W under load. The 680MX that the 27" iMac currently has is much smaller (check out the space it occupies on the logic board), and it pulls 120W under full load. The desktop 690 simply will not fit adequately into an iMac chassis (even the older "thick" one) with decent cooling.
Then, you suggest that the 122W 680MX goes into the rMBP, which has a 650M in it currently, that draws 45W under full power (and Apple has already clocked it up a little). If they could fit a faster (read: more power hungry) GPU in there they would have done so already, even as a BTO option for those willing to tank their battery life and don't mind it being hotter than the sun when running).
There's a reason that they didn't just shove a desktop card into an iMac chassis, and why they have stopped at the 650M in the rMBP.
I'm amazed that the 680MX is as powerful as it is for a GPU that only pulls 120W - it keeps pace with desktop cards that are physically bigger, louder and more power thirsty than it is with aplomb. Obviously it doesn't outclass its desktop namesake the 680 GTX, but it's up there with the 660 Ti, which is not bad for a machine that runs virtually silent when it's on.
iSayuSay
macrumors 68040
Hence I said "it would be great" as in "I know it's not technically possible but if it is then it's awesome". You just can't have it all. That's my post was all about
I think the situation is pretty clear. When you look at the Dell XPS One 27, it has great specs, it looks very nice indeed - although granted, not *quite* as nice as an iMac - and it has almost totally flexibility and upgradeability. The only thing you can't change is the graphics chip.
So it *is* possible to have a great looking AIO that is upgradeable. To argue that AIO's could not or should not be upgradeable is clearly wrong.
No-one is arguing that Apple should go down that Dell route. But equally, turning the iMac into a 21" iPad with absolutely no upgrade options whatsoever is too much. Four screws on the back that removed a 6" panel would hardly have "ruined" the aesthetic appeal, would it.
So it *is* possible to have a great looking AIO that is upgradeable. To argue that AIO's could not or should not be upgradeable is clearly wrong.
No-one is arguing that Apple should go down that Dell route. But equally, turning the iMac into a 21" iPad with absolutely no upgrade options whatsoever is too much. Four screws on the back that removed a 6" panel would hardly have "ruined" the aesthetic appeal, would it.
I think its just that Apple don't want anyone upgrading Macs and keeping them to the same standard as to what they were when they were purchased. This makes more people upgrade their Macs when they're buying them...
inscrewtable
macrumors 68000
I was chatting with the a local independent Apple authorised reseller recently and they told me they had special training and that they were not very pleased about having to open and reseal the current imacs. Apparently to open and reseal it such that it does not look like a hack job takes 1 and a half hours.
Wow, is he doing it blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back?
It takes about 15 minutes.
Even if that is true, it's 14.9 minutes longer than with the magnets and suckers as per previous model. A pretty stupid "improvement" if you ask me.
andiwm2003
macrumors 601
I also think Apple has gone too far with their design and obsession of thinness at the cost of upgradability. It makes some sense for the iPad and for the MBA but other devices should be as servicable/upgradable as possible.
I would like to buy a 27" iMac but I just don't like the glued together concept. I rather stick with my 2008 MBP and wait for a iMac update that either goes back to a more servicable/upgradable form (won't happen) or for a formfactor that actually justifies the fact that it's glued together (aka it would have to be as thin and light as an iPad). Until then I just keep my money and only use my MBP.
I would like to buy a 27" iMac but I just don't like the glued together concept. I rather stick with my 2008 MBP and wait for a iMac update that either goes back to a more servicable/upgradable form (won't happen) or for a formfactor that actually justifies the fact that it's glued together (aka it would have to be as thin and light as an iPad). Until then I just keep my money and only use my MBP.
Have you done it?
You're telling me it takes you 0.1 minutes to take off the glass *and* the LCD panel from the previous model?
How do you get the torx screws out and remove the LCD panel in 6 seconds without breaking it or tearing the LVDS cable right off the logic board?
I don't know why they don't do a Mac PC. Something in between an iMac and the Mac Pro. Apple don't seem to be that focused on desktops these days, concentrating most of their efforts on iPads and iPhones. So I am not expecting a Mac PC any time soon.
But there would imho be a huge market for them. Equivalent to an HP Pavillion or something like that, but running OS X. Small, neat and relatively upgradeable. I imagine they would sell millions of them. Half the entire Hackintosh community would buy one for a start.
I understand that is not something everyone wants. So by all means carry on producing Mac Pros and iMacs and Minis. But this is an obvious missing space in the line up; revenue just waiting to be tapped into. I am surprised they are not interested in making such a device.
But there would imho be a huge market for them. Equivalent to an HP Pavillion or something like that, but running OS X. Small, neat and relatively upgradeable. I imagine they would sell millions of them. Half the entire Hackintosh community would buy one for a start.
I understand that is not something everyone wants. So by all means carry on producing Mac Pros and iMacs and Minis. But this is an obvious missing space in the line up; revenue just waiting to be tapped into. I am surprised they are not interested in making such a device.
These units would sell well, but it would at the same time threaten their brand. Apple has positioned itself in "uniqueness" where it's difficult to compare the price of their products to the PC equivalents, simply because there are none (or not that many).
Remember they are very profitable (about 30% of their turnover is revenue, that's unbeaten in the PC business), so it's save to assume that they add a price premium (the "Apple tax") of about 20-30% on their products (there are other factors as well, control of the distribution channel etc.). Now if they'd sell Apple-branded PCs it would look like a rip-off to their customers, as they could just get the same hardware for much less money.
That's why they take stupid decisions like the iMacs current design (besides being thin it's just a normal - less powerful - PC, but there's no PC with that form factor available). Being unique and looking well is a significant success factor in the consumer PC business and that's where Apple has most of its success. On the other hand their price premium (and the neglecting of the pro users) is the reason why Apple has never been really successful in the business world (besides niches like DTP, film and others).
If they could go one step further and put the SSD slot (or a 2.5" HDD bay) behind that door then I'd be sold. Right now, replaceable SSD is probably even more important than upgradeable RAM. (a) It looks like 1TB SSDs will become affordable over the next year or so and (b) the jury's still out on how long consumer SSDs are going to last in real-world use: I'm prepared to take a risk provided its easy to replace.
How hard can it be? The SSD just needs a SATA cable to the motherboard.
RAM DIMMs can be added to the 21". The discussion is really about how trivial the task is. If a disk dies or some other service needs to be done on the iMac then some more RAM can relativity easily be added to the process.
There is no requirement to pay Apple to add a 512GB to your system.
It doesn't have to be a trap door. If Apple just wants to make it annoyingly more difficult they could do what is done with the MBP. Make it so there are 28 or 36 screws securing the back to the frame plus getting the arm detached/attached.
It really isn't "Ugly" that is stopping Apple's designs as much as fixation of not spoiling the lines; seamless. There is going to be an edge on the door no matter how fine the 'fit'. For the 27" they can somewhat hid the door behind the pedestal ARM. On the 21" they can't. And also where the RAM lands is close to the Apple logo (i.e. much higher and above where the arm attaches). It is a messy place to put a door because there are other things going on there.
Trivially user upgradable it is not. It can be upgraded though. ( as opposed to where the RAM and storage were somehow semi-permanently attached). The brouhaha is how to get box open. It is not whether it is hard to swap DIMMs from its DIMM slots.
Eh? What are you talking about?
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2544+Teardown/11936/1
This design places the hot logic board elements AWAY from the LCD panel. That is a good thing not a bad thing. It would be a short-sighted goofy move to flip the board to oriented it toward the LCD. You deeply confused about what the major objectives are.
99.9999999999999% of the operational lifetime nobody is going to be upgrading the RAM. So optimizing just for RAM access placement with the screen off is a bonehead strategy. It is always "trivial" to optimize a system when ignore all the myriad of design constraints and optimize just one specific one.
The design question here is whether want to establish access from two sides or just one. If it is just one then could make accessing RAM a bit easier if the back came off somehow and the screen was buried below everything. That actually makes servicing the screen harder.
If the screen and HDD storage drives are the common elements needing services ( HDD dies and folks damage the screens ) the current set up is aligned with most service activity.
If look at where the RAM ends up on the logic board and there are two other things going on with the case in that area also. The Apple logo RF antenna "window" is close by and would present problems being a "pop out" door since it has an attached wire. The other problem is that the pedestal arm attachment is also relatively near that area. Not particularly a place want to cut through the aluminum again.
You can try to rejigger the placement of RAM to another side of the CPU but that will flow other logic board elements to other locations.
If willing to do it by feel folks have upgraded with gap with the logic board in place. It is primarily if see the RAM slots and want to apply heavy pressure to the board that have to remove it.
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Is the iMac being marketed as an "All in One"? Yes, I think it is.
Now bearing that in mind, how do you suggest you get have a 512GB SSD without either invalidating your warranty straight off (i.e. not desireable) or paying Apple for one?
If there's another way, I am all ears.
@Joe-h20: you are of course correct, I was getting carried away and forgetting that the LCD screen did not come away with the glass. My silly mistake. I still think magnets are better than glue though!
PJM82
macrumors member
The reason I believe they aren't successful in the business world is that they killed the clones that would have enabled higher volumes with cheaper options. The other reason to be honest is that they don't have Windows. Businesses stick with what they know, and ever since a network enabled Windows for workgroups 3.11 appeared, businesses haven't looked back and won't.
Its the same reason Linux dominates the security, web appliance and firewall markets.
The costs of retraining everyone would be too much around an industry that is heavily Windows and Linux based.
Why is iOS becoming successful in business? Because its an entirely new platform that is being picked up. They just need to keep winning those defence and government contracts around the world before Android devices do. Once the training is in place, they are unlikely to budge.
PJM82
macrumors member
Lets not forget Apple don't make stupid decisions. The fact is they don't want you as a customer if thats the way you think. They want to create a premium brand with premium products, Apple simply don't do cheap. That value needs to be added to make it feel worth the price, the easiest way is through design. This is the reason they are the most valuable brand in the world.
You or I may be frustrated by the lack of ability to fiddle, but I think Apple long abandoned the traditional geek, like your username points to and appear to only want the 'arty farty - I want to be cool' brigade.
The reality of all of this? Hackintosh. Thats where many of the 'hardware geeks' now reside.
By "great specs" do you mean "terrible specs"?
It has a 640M GPU (on a 2560x1440 27" screen!) and only two Ram slots.
It is severely anaemic in terms of performance. Not sure you want to be championing that as something the iMac should aspire to.
...which hit Apple's own sales of premium-priced laptops, workstations and small-form-factor systems, the income of which pays for the development of OS X. And the cloners didn't go after the 'standard desktop PC' market because, as you say, Windows had a stranglehold on that, they went after Apple's premium products which are more profitable and had proven market niches.
Anyway, there's hasn't been any money in "standard PCs" for a long time - they're loss-leaders for selling other goods and services.
In more practical terms, businesses rely on lots of custom software (mainly customised databases) often, shall we say, not written to the highest standards of software architecture? The lack of SQL Server, Access, Visual Basic, Visual C/C++/C#* etc. is a deal breaker, and Mac OS <=9 didn't offer much by way of equivalent (Filemaker was great for small biz but didn't compete with the big stuff). OS X can run serious database software - but only the same stuff that runs more cheaply on Linux.
(* Yeah, I know XCode rocks for writing full-blown Apps, but MS Visual XYZ hits the sweet spot for commercial database programming).
Where Mac rocks is, for example, small-scale website/web app development for deployment on linux/unix servers, where you can have Adobe CS (or similar) and MS Office alongside apache/php/perl/python/ruby/mysql/postgresql running in a Unix environment as nature intended... but that's not how big business rolls.
Because the Pointy-Haired-Boss buys an iPad 4 from his local Apple Store then demands that the IT department make it work with the company network.
Then they reason that if they support iOS, all their employees will rush out and buy their own iPhones and the company won't have to buy them all CrackBerries.
Interestingly my iPhone/iPad integrates far better into our corporate IT than my Mac. While I didn't have any problems accessing our Exchange server on the iOS devices it just doesn't work on OSX.
A key factor in accessibility/upgradability is manufacturing cost. That lovely Mac Pro chassis costs $$. Each access panel, card slot and drive bay increase parts count and cost, each access screw an additional assembly cost. The ability to support add-on gear requires a larger (and hotter) power supply...
Is "easy to repair and upgrade" nice? Yes, for a small part of the population (those who think we are "a lot" of people are sadly mistaken). For the rest? Why should they pay for something they won't use, and why should Apple include that capability if it makes its products even less cost-competitive in the marketplace?
Does anyone buy a car anymore because it's easy to repair? No. Not even Consumer Reports notes whether it'll cost more to fix because of the way it's put together. And the ability to hot-rod it? Such modifications are reserved for vehicles built in the days before emission controls and CPUs under the hood.
I think we also underestimate "sleek and sexy" (or scorn the concept). While you or I might be proud to display a whopping big tower in a place of prominence in the living room... Most folks would rather use most of that space for some other purpose, and have something that doesn't scream "geek" amidst the hardcover books, lithographs, crystal figurines, framed family photos, or whatever else they have on display. "Dell" and "HP" are not status symbols; that Apple logo set into sleek brushed aluminum is. "Functional plus status symbol" is a winning combination, and "functional" is not a matter of what it might become, but what it is right out of the box. I can't think of many tech toys that offer a better out-of-box experience than an iMac.
So, rather than wish the iMac to be something it isn't, appreciate it for what it is - one of the world's last highly-desirable desktop computers, a device that has to compete with laptops and tablets for survival (all of which are hard to repair and modify, by the way, a fact that has not hurt their popularity).
Is "easy to repair and upgrade" nice? Yes, for a small part of the population (those who think we are "a lot" of people are sadly mistaken). For the rest? Why should they pay for something they won't use, and why should Apple include that capability if it makes its products even less cost-competitive in the marketplace?
Does anyone buy a car anymore because it's easy to repair? No. Not even Consumer Reports notes whether it'll cost more to fix because of the way it's put together. And the ability to hot-rod it? Such modifications are reserved for vehicles built in the days before emission controls and CPUs under the hood.
I think we also underestimate "sleek and sexy" (or scorn the concept). While you or I might be proud to display a whopping big tower in a place of prominence in the living room... Most folks would rather use most of that space for some other purpose, and have something that doesn't scream "geek" amidst the hardcover books, lithographs, crystal figurines, framed family photos, or whatever else they have on display. "Dell" and "HP" are not status symbols; that Apple logo set into sleek brushed aluminum is. "Functional plus status symbol" is a winning combination, and "functional" is not a matter of what it might become, but what it is right out of the box. I can't think of many tech toys that offer a better out-of-box experience than an iMac.
So, rather than wish the iMac to be something it isn't, appreciate it for what it is - one of the world's last highly-desirable desktop computers, a device that has to compete with laptops and tablets for survival (all of which are hard to repair and modify, by the way, a fact that has not hurt their popularity).