Why is the iMac sealed off?

[Woyzeck]

A key factor in accessibility/upgradability is manufacturing cost. That lovely Mac Pro chassis costs $$. Each access panel, card slot and drive bay increase parts count and cost, each access screw an additional assembly cost. The ability to support add-on gear requires a larger (and hotter) power supply...

A company with a profit margin of more than 30% could easily afford to pay a chinese worker 50ct for adding some additional screws. At least the other PC manufacturers have no problem with that.

Does anyone buy a car anymore because it's easy to repair? No. Not even Consumer Reports notes whether it'll cost more to fix because of the way it's put together. And the ability to hot-rod it? Such modifications are reserved for vehicles built in the days before emission controls and CPUs under the hood.

In a PCs lifetime it's very likely that the harddisk will break or that the RAM will fail. What's your response if your 27" iMacs HDD breaks after 3 years ? Buy a new one ? It's a desktop computer, not a disposable mobile device that you can easily replace every two years.
A car's engine usually makes it until the very end.

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External Thunderbolt.

So a small hatch to access RAM and HDD totally breaks the aesthetics of the iMacs design, while external boxes for boot disks are ok ? Isn't that a little bit contradicting the idea of an AIO ?

It seems that some people make a PC tower from the iMac, just without the case.

 

[joe-h2o]

In a PCs lifetime it's very likely that the harddisk will break or that the RAM will fail. What's your response if your 27" iMacs HDD breaks after 3 years ? Buy a new one ? It's a desktop computer, not a disposable mobile device that you can easily replace every two years.
A car's engine usually makes it until the very end.

I'll simply buy a replacement HD, take the screen off (15 mins with a plastic stick), put the new drive in (a couple of torx screws and a SATA connector), close the screen back up (a couple of pieces of double sided foam tape) and restore from Time Machine.

Oh, sorry, you were trying to state that the iMac was a bad design and hard to repair. I'll just hang back so as not to make you look foolish. I'll make a distraction so you can slip out.

 

[mlody]

I don't know why they don't do a Mac PC. Something in between an iMac and the Mac Pro. Apple don't seem to be that focused on desktops these days, concentrating most of their efforts on iPads and iPhones. So I am not expecting a Mac PC any time soon.

But there would imho be a huge market for them. Equivalent to an HP Pavillion or something like that, but running OS X. Small, neat and relatively upgradeable. I imagine they would sell millions of them. Half the entire Hackintosh community would buy one for a start.

I understand that is not something everyone wants. So by all means carry on producing Mac Pros and iMacs and Minis. But this is an obvious missing space in the line up; revenue just waiting to be tapped into. I am surprised they are not interested in making such a device.

I agree %100 with you. I am very surprised that Apple is not trying to target to non-Pro Mac market outside 21.5 and 27" AIO. Between mini that starts at $599 and Mac Pro that starts at $2499 they only offer AIO which is appealing system but to very small group of users. They should definitely have something like a mini tower desktop with perhaps just one PCI-E slot for upgradable graphic – call it Mac Pro mini. Start it at $999 for i5-4670 with on-board graphic, 8 GB memory, 1 TB 7200 RPM HDD or something similar and offer top of the line model with i7-4770, 32GB memory, 3D graphic card, HDD, SSD, fusion options.At the same time make sure that most of the components are easily accessible and user servicable just like in the Mac Pro.

Like someone else stated, I also think, this would drive a lot of people that currently have hackintosh’es to Mac OS cause the entry price wouldn’t be as high and ease of upgrading would be there. This should also help drive demand for Apple accessories like mice, keyboards, time machine backup, airport routers, monitors etc. – I really think this would be a win-win for both Apple and customers.
The Pro’s that need higher stability and expendability would still have their option to buy Mac Pro with Xeon CPU’s, ECC memory, additional ports for SCSI, RAID or custom video, sound cards etc.

 

[flynz4]

So a small hatch to access RAM and HDD totally breaks the aesthetics of the iMacs design, while external boxes for boot disks are ok ? Isn't that a little bit contradicting the idea of an AIO ?

The question was if it was possible to attach a 512GB SSD to an iMac without voiding the warranty... or paying the Apple Tax (recalled from memory).

My response was a simple answer to the fact that it is possible.

/Jim

 

[PJM82]

Interestingly my iPhone/iPad integrates far better into our corporate IT than my Mac. While I didn't have any problems accessing our Exchange server on the iOS devices it just doesn't work on OSX.

Yeah - it seems as Apple was thinking along this lines. I mean for ages the iPod worked better with Windows than iOS once itunes arrived.

 

[PJM82]

...which hit Apple's own sales of premium-priced laptops, workstations and small-form-factor systems, the income of which pays for the development of OS X. And the cloners didn't go after the 'standard desktop PC' market because, as you say, Windows had a stranglehold on that, they went after Apple's premium products which are more profitable and had proven market niches.

Anyway, there's hasn't been any money in "standard PCs" for a long time - they're loss-leaders for selling other goods and services.


In more practical terms, businesses rely on lots of custom software (mainly customised databases) often, shall we say, not written to the highest standards of software architecture? The lack of SQL Server, Access, Visual Basic, Visual C/C++/C#* etc. is a deal breaker, and Mac OS <=9 didn't offer much by way of equivalent (Filemaker was great for small biz but didn't compete with the big stuff). OS X can run serious database software - but only the same stuff that runs more cheaply on Linux.

(* Yeah, I know XCode rocks for writing full-blown Apps, but MS Visual XYZ hits the sweet spot for commercial database programming).

Where Mac rocks is, for example, small-scale website/web app development for deployment on linux/unix servers, where you can have Adobe CS (or similar) and MS Office alongside apache/php/perl/python/ruby/mysql/postgresql running in a Unix environment as nature intended... but that's not how big business rolls.


Because the Pointy-Haired-Boss buys an iPad 4 from his local Apple Store then demands that the IT department make it work with the company network.

Then they reason that if they support iOS, all their employees will rush out and buy their own iPhones and the company won't have to buy them all CrackBerries.

Interesting points, although to be honest - I never ever developed on Windows. All my development was done on Unix based systems such as Solaris. Although we were coding for 68k based devices a lot of the time. I didn't use visual anything until a few years ago. All of my SQL work was also on Linux platforms. Most of the companies I interacted with with the same at the time (late 90s). So my Windows experience from that point of view is limited.

Now I work in cyber security and most of my work and indeed the industries is carried out on Linux/Unix based systems defending against mainly Windows boxes . I do love Windows (I'm about to become an MCSE fingers crossed) but I prefer UNIX based systems. Apple seems content to not be in either of these markets. Its hard to understand how exactly Apple sees its desktop/laptop line as neither is particularly big compared to IOS devices.

I agree a small upgradeable maybe flexatx sized Mac would be brilliant but I doubt we'll ever see such a thing, particularly with ive steering all things design. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mac Pro eventually be dropped.

I also believe office and internet explorer helped to drive that business boom. Although we have received them on the Mac, our versions have never quite been the same.

 

[Hirakata]

I love the good old days where getting inside your Mac took a standard screwdriver and nothing else.

Heck, the good old days were getting inside your Mac and not even needing a screwdriver...

 

[inscrewtable]

Wow, is he doing it blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back?

It takes about 15 minutes.

I'm just quoting someone who had done Apple training in order to do it. Remember they have to hand it back to the customer so that it looks exactly as it did new. I saw a youtube video of someone doing it themselves and they ended up scratching the black paint on the inside of the glass.

I've put an SSD in my iMac but I'd pay someone to do one of these new ones. If there is any cosmetic damage done by me then it would reduce the resale value.

 

[Silvereel]

I tend to agree. When you look at it, the Dell XPS One 27 is not an ugly design.

Speak for yourself

 

[Rogifan]

You can , have both form and function if your a good Designer, there is NO reason iMacs couldn't have easily accessible doors for both RAM and HDD replacements (in fact the 27inch DOES have a door for RAM) without sacrificing the FORM at all.

I just think Mr Ive is incompetent as a technical designer, he should be making arty fountains or something instead of computer cases

Do you really think Ive alone makes those decisions? My guess is hardware engineering has a say.

 

[G-Mo]

I was chatting with the a local independent Apple authorised reseller recently and they told me they had special training and that they were not very pleased about having to open and reseal the current imacs. Apparently to open and reseal it such that it does not look like a hack job takes 1 and a half hours.

I'm just quoting someone who had done Apple training in order to do it. Remember they have to hand it back to the customer so that it looks exactly as it did new. I saw a youtube video of someone doing it themselves and they ended up scratching the black paint on the inside of the glass.

If it takes their technician 1 and a half hours to open and reseal a new iMac they are incompetent. I did a hard drive and logic board replacement today, machine looked factory new at completion and it took less than 45 mins.

(I've done the Apple training in order to do it.)

 

[Chippy99]

External Thunderbolt.

/Jim

You failed the test and ignored line 1 of my question, which to remind you was, "Is the iMac being marketed as an "All in One"? Yes, I think it is."

A computer that has to have its boot drive attached by cable to an external enclosure is not an All in One, is it.

I accept that a large proportions of iMacs will have external devices permanently attached (although I bet many never will). But saying one the one hand it is perfectly OK to have a cable and external box, and yet at the same time saying that it is NOT OK to have a removable panel on the back (for aesthetic reasons) is contradictory and paradoxical.

An external box and cable messes up the aesthetics far more that a discrete removable panel. Not to mention the additional cost of an external Thunderbolt enclosure. If the integrity of the iMac concept - the essence of what an iMac is all about - is to be maintained, suggesting booting off an external SSD is a non-starter.

Your only option is to invalidate your warranty or bend over and spread your cheeks. I have just done the latter, and I didn't enjoy it. But Apple did. Thats what the unupgradeability is about.

 

[thekev]

That's down to personal taste.

I've owned a number of displays, not all in ones, but many displays. I have never once admired the profile from a 3/4 view. I look at the screen. When I'm not using the computer, I don't stare at it. I think people get too hung up on aesthetics in general. It seemed like a gimmicky thing to me.

I agree, but I bet the majority of PC users will never replace any of those items and would just take it in to be repaired any way. So it might help the tech save a few minutes taking it apart.

The reason some users are concerned is due to the range of users that might buy this machine. It's one oem and a lineup that is leveraged across a very wide range of users.

Do you really think Ive alone makes those decisions? My guess is hardware engineering has a say.

Engineering likely tells them what would cost too much or create specific problems. I suspect the issue is that they do not want users opening the machine anyway, so they don't try to make it any easier. I do think the use of adhesive is kind of a weird development in recent hardware.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

You can , have both form and function if your a good Designer, there is NO reason iMacs couldn't have easily accessible doors for both RAM and HDD replacements (in fact the 27inch DOES have a door for RAM) without sacrificing the FORM at all.

I just think Mr Ive is incompetent as a technical designer, he should be making arty fountains or something instead of computer cases

TB,Sir Jonathan Ive to you, commoner!

 

[Arfdog]

In a PCs lifetime it's very likely that the harddisk will break or that the RAM will fail. What's your response if your 27" iMacs HDD breaks after 3 years ?

I've used computers since 286 days, and I've never had a single hard drive fail on me. 40 MB to 40 GB to 1 TB, I've never, ever had a drive fail to even boot up. So the chances that anyone will have a hard drive failure are pretty damn slim. They are more likely to break the computer accidentally first.

 

[Arfdog]

I don't know why they don't do a Mac PC. Something in between an iMac and the Mac Pro. Apple don't seem to be that focused on desktops these days, concentrating most of their efforts on iPads and iPhones. So I am not expecting a Mac PC any time soon.

But there would imho be a huge market for them. Equivalent to an HP Pavillion or something like that, but running OS X. Small, neat and relatively upgradeable. I imagine they would sell millions of them. Half the entire Hackintosh community would buy one for a start.

I understand that is not something everyone wants. So by all means carry on producing Mac Pros and iMacs and Minis. But this is an obvious missing space in the line up; revenue just waiting to be tapped into. I am surprised they are not interested in making such a device.

Apple has exactly what 'you're talking about. The Mac Mini. If Apple just made a nice-looking mini tower, they'd very quickly erode their status as design leader. Therefore, they came up with the very efficient Mac Mini.

The Hackintosh community is vanishingly small. To tap into this revenue stream would be costly in both money and reputation, and you can't gain that sh_t back.

IMO the PC's hardware hacking is also vanishingly small, as it's made of young boys and men. It will soon retreat into a very small group akin to hot rodders, motorbikers, and other groups that consider themselves purists. In the end, most regular people don't give two craps about the arcane workings of something. What matters is what it does and how conveniently it does it.

Computer use is beyond the days of requiring knowledge about its inner workings.

 

[tomwvr]

Arfdog


I have a computer chain store Micro Center near to where I work

They have 1/5th of the store set up for build your own computer. I know they do very very well with this stuff.

Heck almost every computer out side the Apple Products I have had since I was a kid (long long time ago) have all been home assembled. I would not say home made since I did not make the parts.

Home assembled computers are a good high profit item to be in - much better then the 2-3% profit we make where I work :>)

 

[andiwm2003]

Lets not forget Apple don't make stupid decisions. The fact is they don't want you as a customer if thats the way you think. They want to create a premium brand with premium products, Apple simply don't do cheap. That value needs to be added to make it feel worth the price, the easiest way is through design. This is the reason they are the most valuable brand in the world.

You or I may be frustrated by the lack of ability to fiddle, but I think Apple long abandoned the traditional geek, like your username points to and appear to only want the 'arty farty - I want to be cool' brigade.

The reality of all of this? Hackintosh. Thats where many of the 'hardware geeks' now reside.

you make the right point here. there is not much coming from being frustrated about the design of iMac's. I'm just not their target customer anymore for desktops. I still like their notebooks so it's better to simply save the money and not buy an iMac. If it's really that important to have an upgradeable mac than it's worth to get either a Mac pro or a Hackintosh. For me it's not important enough to get a hackintosh. they need more attention and know how than I want to invest.

would be interesting to know how many people actually decide not to buy a mac because of the lack of upgradability. it's probably less than 0.5% of their customer base.

 

[Bear]

I've used computers since 286 days, and I've never had a single hard drive fail on me. 40 MB to 40 GB to 1 TB, I've never, ever had a drive fail to even boot up. So the chances that anyone will have a hard drive failure are pretty damn slim. They are more likely to break the computer accidentally first.

You've been lucky. I say drive failure chances are more than slim. I would say more like low if they replace their systems after 2 or 3 years. Slim would be if they replace their systems and all their hard drives every year.

My most recent drive failure was on a 2 year and 10 month old system. And I've had a couple of other drives I had to get replaced under the drive warranty. Oh, I had some drives that were over 7 years old that failed.

...
would be interesting to know how many people actually decide not to buy a mac because of the lack of upgradability. it's probably less than 0.5% of their customer base.

A Mac mini won't do what I need it to do. And the Mac Pro would be too pricey and chew up excess electricity. So that leaves the iMac.

 

[i4Collin]

More and more we are becoming a disposable society. It's sad to say, but it's true. Your average consumer would rather keep the computer until it breaks the first time and then pay the Apple Store to repair it, or ditch it after that. Your average consumer would also rather just go buy a new computer after 3-5 years then spend time upgrading their graphics card, hard drive, processor, etc. Cars are the same way. BMW doesn't even have real dipsticks anymore, just an electronic sensor. If you want to replace your battery on your BMW you have to buy one from the dealership and spend $400 for it because they have to program it. They know they can get away with it because most people don't service anything they own anymore.

 

[Mackan]

Ah, the usual battle between reasonable people and people who blindly defend Apple to their last breath.

 

[flynz4]

You failed the test and ignored line 1 of my question, which to remind you was, "Is the iMac being marketed as an "All in One"? Yes, I think it is."

A computer that has to have its boot drive attached by cable to an external enclosure is not an All in One, is it.

I accept that a large proportions of iMacs will have external devices permanently attached (although I bet many never will). But saying one the one hand it is perfectly OK to have a cable and external box, and yet at the same time saying that it is NOT OK to have a removable panel on the back (for aesthetic reasons) is contradictory and paradoxical.

An external box and cable messes up the aesthetics far more that a discrete removable panel. Not to mention the additional cost of an external Thunderbolt enclosure. If the integrity of the iMac concept - the essence of what an iMac is all about - is to be maintained, suggesting booting off an external SSD is a non-starter.

Your only option is to invalidate your warranty or bend over and spread your cheeks. I have just done the latter, and I didn't enjoy it. But Apple did. Thats what the unupgradeability is about.

I don't disagree with you at all. I would prefer to not have external boxes hanging off of my iMac.

I do have an external Pegasus R4... and at some point, I plan to tuck it away in a closet or upstairs in an equipment room... but only once TB Optical cables become a bit more affordable. I am not willing to pay $900 for a cable.

/Jim

 

[joe-h2o]

I've used computers since 286 days, and I've never had a single hard drive fail on me. 40 MB to 40 GB to 1 TB, I've never, ever had a drive fail to even boot up. So the chances that anyone will have a hard drive failure are pretty damn slim. They are more likely to break the computer accidentally first.

There is only one certain thing in life, other than death and taxes, and that is that a hard drive will fail.

There are two types of files: files that are lost, and files that are backed up.

The failure chance of a storage medium is 100% - plan accordingly.

 

[Lancer]

DVD or the lack of it - just ripped /encoded a DVD using my PCs DVD drive.

So easy, I just shared the PCs DVD drive, put in the disk. Went to my Mac and found the DVD drive (listed with the other shared drives) Handbrake then encoded a 90 min movie in about 15 minutes to a 600Mb mp4.

And all the time the PC is sitting in another room sharing the same LAN.

Now tell me why you need a DVD drive in the new iMac?

 

[PJM82]

Ah, the usual battle between reasonable people and people who blindly defend Apple to their last breath.

You probably need to re-read the thread.