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Why is the new MBP (non Retina) bashed?

sofianito said:
For me, the question is not cMBP vs rMBP, or bashing cMBP. The real question is why Apple has overpriced the cMBP. The only reason I see is that they want to promote and push forward the rMBP sales. If the cMBP 2,6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD were rightly priced less than $2500, then few would buy rMBP... That's my opinion.

I am also worried about how early adopters are rushing to spend 3000 bucks on the rMBP. The majority of people do not need it and/or cannot afford it without ruining their economy. I believe we must gain back consciousness and understand that we, customers, drive prices and technologies. If we increase Apple's rMBP or cMBPs sales, it means that we feel happy being submissive and abused by Apple manipulations!

Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to start a flame thread, but there is no doubt that they are and want to steal our money!. Let's hope that we, consumers, don't allow them to get away with this rip-off...
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First of all, didn't they keep the regular MBP the same price but increased the processor, video card and base RAM?

So the price of the MBP has stayed the same for the last couple years and actually has dropped in price over the last 10 years? (based on comments of previous owners).

No one really NEEDS a computer but there are certain reasons that someone would want one. Whether it is helpful in their job or helpful in their hobbies or just something they enjoy, that is up to them. And I'd say, you worry about your finances and let those that buy rMBPs buy their own. I agree that no one should go into debt with buying a computer but it is up to them if they can afford it.

And they aren't stealing anybody's money. They are offering a product. If it sells, it is up to the consumer to decide.
 
What I see is a lot of ignoring of the non-Retina. And I think that's fair, as it's basically unchanged except for spec bumps. If 3-4 years from now the only changes in the rMBP are a faster processor, I don't think people will be that exited at the latest refresh.
 
Fuchal said:
On MacRumors, everything gets bashed, from the iPod, to the Air, to the new Pros. :D
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Absolutely, why here at MR you can not have a clue about something yet start a full thread on its pros and cons. Pick a wonderful topic like Disk Defragmentation, SSDs, Secure Formatting, Consumer Math (MBP Pricing), Retina Displays, Data Transfer Speeds, or 'surprise us', and just start posting away.

If you find a topic that you actually know about and try to sift the good information from the bad you'll automatically be down voted.

You must also have a short memory because like the Island of Misfit Toys, we tend to sweep bad Apple products out of our memory. Firebooks, PowerBook Hinges, iBook white spots, and the rest all ignored and those who speak of them are shunned.

Lastly, remember that independent thought and objective criticism are frowned upon. The group that drinks the Kool-Aid, believes the Kool-Aid. What Apple says is good for us, is always good for us.


-P
 
I should have been more explicit with what I meant when I said that the cMBP is overpriced: The cost of a cMBP 2,6Ghz, 8GB RAM, 750GB 7200 RPM Spindle Disk, anti-glare display, plus a 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM aftermarkets is equal or higher than a rMBP 2,6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD. One can reasonably argue that the new features of the rMBP such as its "revolutionary retina display", its thinness, magsafe 2, HDMI,...etc are worth its price, but what is so revolutionary in the cMBP that makes it worthy its price? :confused: I heard you say "its upgradability"?? Obviously, a cMBP 2,6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD is not anymore upgradable apart of replacing its superdrive with the spindle disk or another flash $$D.

So, in my opinion, it is clear that Apple must adjust fairly the price of the cMBP, and then we'll see which model sells more...
 
The issue with the MBP right now is that it's in a kind of awkward spot. The 15" fails spec-wise to the RMBP without considering the Retina screen (SSD, RAM), and the necessary after-market upgrades make it more expensive even not factoring the new chassy and screen.

The 13", while not failing completely compared to the MBA 13", still lacks a built-in SSD, which is a huge boon to more casual users (who care little for upgradability), and is generally the better purchase (size factor counts here as well). More heavy users will tend to go for the 15", so back to point one.

The issue is that SSDs are pretty expensive nowadays, and the models that have the SSD have it at extremely competitive prices compared to the ones that don't.
 
afurry13 said:
I think he is saying that eventually someone will come up with a special ssd for the retina pro just like they did for the air. I think it was a statement, not a question. You're not stuck at 256gb, however to go to 512 will cost you a grand or something outrageous. I get your point, and i think the smart alec is crazy.
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More to the point, i can put a 2-3tb spinning disk in my non-retina 15" machine, in addition to an SSD. I don't need to sacrifice storage capacity to get an SSD.
 
Queen6 said:
Apple have realistically spec`d the rMBP high enough so the average user wont need to worry about upgrading.
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THIS!

90% of the bitching about the MBPr is about upgradability, and I want to know what you want to upgrade. 16GB of RAM should be MORE than enough for the life of the computer... and even 8 is for a large number of users. SSD? There will be third-party upgrades, if needed, no doubt... but my needs today aren't going to change in that regard. The OS and temp working files are on the HD. Everything else goes external.
 
Cubeeless said:
I really don't get the point why some of the members here are bashing on non Retina models.

Not everybody needs the Retina model and user upgradability is also important. So why we don't show Apple that the way their are going (soldering Ram and hdd) is wrong, through buying MBP's or at least not bashing people who bought MBPs.

JM2C
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There are many people who praise Apple's new design including myself. Apple provides three unique model choice to the retina MacBook Pro also the choice of custom built. You may not want but PLEASE leave these comments to oneself. BTW I'm leaving you one additional negative. Have a nice day.
 
I think the cMBP has great value.

If you have the cash, the cMBP is an immediately available option for those that are working and need a powerful laptop now. If the rMBP was immediately available I would have been tempted. My config actually saved me $178.00.00 over a comparably equipped Retina. I will even forget that you cannot get an antiglare screen.

The other possibility is the cMBP manufacturing is mature and will likely have less issues than something just introduced. That can slow down your work if you have problems.

Base price rMBP:

2.7 16gigs ram 512 SSD $3249.00
Ethernet adapter 29.00
Ext Superdrive 79.00
Antiglare screen not available

Total: $3357.00


Base price cMBP:

2.7 mbp 8 gigs 1TB HD antiglare 2649.00
512 ssd upgrade 349.00
16 gig ram 146.00
MDP to HDMI adapter 35.00

Total $3179.00

Not too shabby.:D

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leenak said:
No one really NEEDS a computer but there are certain reasons that someone would want one.
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Such an absurd thing to say. Working as a Systems Administrator I have no choice but to have a computer, want has nothing to do with it. There are many many other professions that also require the use of a computer.

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unibility said:
Apple provides three unique model choice to the retina MacBook Pro also the choice of custom built.
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Apple only has two base model choices for the MBPr, anything else is considered BTO. Some Apple retail stores carry the Ultimate MBPr but it is still considered BTO.
 
I plan on getting the "Hi-res" (quotes just because the name is now funny considering the rMBP) because I think it's a better fit for me. They both have their pros and cons. The reason why I don't jump on board with the rMBP is because I just don't think that mid range mobile graphics cards (I'm not one of those saying "why didn't they put a 680m in the rMBP") today are really ready to push all those pixels for when the GPU has its traditional work to do. Sure it may be perfectly fine for browsing the web (although there are supposedly stutters at points) but when you get into heavier graphic workloads then you will have to bump the resolution down to have it run smoothly which negates that screen completely and will look fuzzier than a screen that has that native resolution. In a few years I'm sure I'll get a rMBP when the graphics catch up, but I just think that todays mid-range mobil GPUs are going to be a major bottle neck to that screen, and I'd rather have a native 1680x1050 which will be much easier for the GPUs to handle, and to me at least, is still a fine resolution. I think that resolution is the sweet spot for a 15", I don't think it is inadequate by any means.

Not to mention, I could care less if the rMBP is a fraction of an inch thinner or a pound lighter. I would rather minimize the amount of adapters I have to carry around "just in case."

Again, they both have their pros and cons. I just think the rMBP's cons are larger than the cMBP, for me at least.
 
dallas112678 said:
I plan on getting the "Hi-res" (quotes just because the name is now funny considering the rMBP) because I think it's a better fit for me. They both have their pros and cons. The reason why I don't jump on board with the rMBP is because I just don't think that mid range mobile graphics cards (I'm not one of those saying "why didn't they put a 680m in the rMBP") today are really ready to push all those pixels for when the GPU has its traditional work to do. Sure it may be perfectly fine for browsing the web (although there are supposedly stutters at points) but when you get into heavier graphic workloads then you will have to bump the resolution down to have it run smoothly which negates that screen completely and will look fuzzier than a screen that has that native resolution. In a few years I'm sure I'll get a rMBP when the graphics catch up, but I just think that todays mid-range mobil GPUs are going to be a major bottle neck to that screen, and I'd rather have a native 1680x1050 which will be much easier for the GPUs to handle, and to me at least, is still a fine resolution. I think that resolution is the sweet spot for a 15", I don't think it is inadequate by any means.

Not to mention, I could care less if the rMBP is a fraction of an inch thinner or a pound lighter. I would rather minimize the amount of adapters I have to carry around "just in case."

Again, they both have their pros and cons. I just think the rMBP's cons are larger than the cMBP, for me at least.
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I am in the same boat as you. rMBP is still in beta state. So I rather wait 3 to 4 years when the technology catch up.
 
The standard Macbook Pro is a great computer. My 2010 ed. is one of the best laptops I've ever owned, and the 2012 one has built upon that in most ways. I have an aftermarket SSD installed but never upgraded ram beyond the factort installed 8gb. No reason anyone should bash it.

That being said, the Retina model they released alongside it far better suited my needs in terms of both the bump, weight, thickness and display. It's a better computer, and you pay the price for it; but that ought not lower the value of the standard edition in any way if you don't need or want those things enough to buy one. I also don't view the soldering and lack of upgradability as being a hinderance because I don't buy a laptop for upgradability and never have upgraded a laptop after purchase (the aftermarket SSD came preinstalled in mine from the reseller).

To each unto his/her own
 
For those who run a lot of virtual machines with VirtualBox, VMWare Fusion, Parallels, etc..., or do developments with load and regression testing of web applications running locally on web or application servers, or have databases running and updated frequently, I believe it is better to have those VMs, application servers, and databases writing on a spindle disk than a SSD to avoid shortening the lifespan of the SSD. This is were a cMBP is better than rMBP because it allows you to have a fast SSD for boot and applications, and a spindle disk (replacing the superdrive) for all of those write operations such as VMs, application server log files, database files,...etc (applications' outputs).

Regarding rMBP spec bumps, it is true that they are high enough so that someone who bought the 2,6Ghz, 8GB Ram, 512GB SSD (sorry but 256GB is small nowadays) should not worry about upgradability. But what happens after the warranty ends (assuming you payed for 3 years of Apple care) when you need to change the battery ($200), or you need more disk space because the 256GB/512GB of the SSD are not enough (how much should he pay for upgrading or replacing a failed disk?), or if the retina display panel fails, knowing it is not replaceable such as the cMBP one. I think the issue of rMBP here is more related to the high cost of its repairability than upgradability when the warranty expires. I believe that someone who invests $3000 to $4000 for a rMBP, expects to renew it after 4 years at least, isn't it? or is Apple expecting that their customers are so rich to buy a new one every three years?...
 
sofianito said:
I heard you say "its upgradability"?? Obviously, a cMBP 2,6Ghz, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD is not anymore upgradable apart of replacing its superdrive with the spindle disk or another flash $$D.
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If you buy a cMBP and pay Apple ridiculous price for the 512GB SSD... you're doing it wrong.
 
Fortimir said:
THIS!

90% of the bitching about the MBPr is about upgradability
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And 90% of it comes from people now happily using computers that, while they may be able to have more storage added to them, could never be upgraded to be as powerful in CPU or GPU as the BASE rMBP.
 
Not to mention the rMBP security issue! (absence of security lock). If one works in different places with different customers to make a living, he could get easily paranoid... especially at lunch time :D
 
brand said:
Such an absurd thing to say. Working as a Systems Administrator I have no choice but to have a computer, want has nothing to do with it. There are many many other professions that also require the use of a computer.
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It isn't a NEED in terms of basic needs. Beyond that, a PC makes things easier for your job but I've sat at many consoles over the years when I did some Unix admin work. And then to go further, having a home/personal PC is a nicety.

I work in IT so yes I use a computer for work but would i don't consider it a basic need in the truest sense.
 
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