OS X Why less game on Mac App Store?

[Gu1b0]

Omitting the higher prices, but why in the mac app store there are many fewer games than the various steam / macgamestore?

Many fewer games.

I (like many other mac users) hate to use systems such as steam, but I really do not understand this difference.

Games like Fez, Football Manager, and many many others.

If they were on the MAS I would have already purchased, regardless of the price.

What do you think?

 

[Washac]

Omitting the higher prices, but why in the mac app store there are many fewer games than the various steam / macgamestore?

Many fewer games.

I (like many other mac users) hate to use systems such as steam, but I really do not understand this difference.

Games like Fez, Football Manager, and many many others.

If they were on the MAS I would have already purchased, regardless of the price.

What do you think?

The App Sore has its issues with games also as in some games are not complete.

I really hate and despise DRM. Again I have been caught out again by a certain game selling websites small print, I purchased Dungeon Siege II in a sale only to find I had not purchased a game at all but a serial key for ********** steam, that certain site will no longer be used.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there, yes I would prefer to buy from the App Store, the missing stuff in some gamers there are online playing stuff anyway that does not really bother me.

I can only assume the lack of games on the App Store is in steam either have or are getting a strangle hold on the games market and I do not like that one bit, I want choice please.

 

[Plutonius]

Omitting the higher prices, but why in the mac app store there are many fewer games than the various steam / macgamestore?

Many fewer games.

I (like many other mac users) hate to use systems such as steam, but I really do not understand this difference.

Games like Fez, Football Manager, and many many others.

If they were on the MAS I would have already purchased, regardless of the price.

What do you think?

Because Apple can't (will not) compete on price for the games. Since price does matter for most people, the app store will not bother to carry them.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Because Apple can't (will not) compete on price for the games. Since price does matter for most people, the app store will not bother to carry them.

Apple does not dictate prices on the MAS, the developers do it.

Restrictions from Apples side on what MAS apps are allowed to do, is the reason for lack of games.

 

[antonis]

Omitting the higher prices, but why in the mac app store there are many fewer games than the various steam / macgamestore?

Many fewer games.

I (like many other mac users) hate to use systems such as steam, but I really do not understand this difference.

Games like Fez, Football Manager, and many many others.

If they were on the MAS I would have already purchased, regardless of the price.

What do you think?

Most game creators don't like the fact that Apple takes a significant part of the price on MAS - they profit less (on the other hand, their games are exposed on a wider audience group, though). Additionally, the approval system that MAS requires, makes patches and updates more painful and slow.

Having said that, I don't like Steam either so I don't use it at all. I only shop from Blizzard directly, MAS and sometimes GOG.

 

[imacken]

Most game creators don't like the fact that Apple takes a significant part of the price on MAS - they profit less (on the other hand, their games are exposed on a wider audience group, though). Additionally, the approval system that MAS requires, makes patches and updates more painful and slow.

Having said that, I don't like Steam either so I don't use it at all. I only shop from Blizzard directly, MAS and sometimes GOG.

I believe the Apple share on MAS is not much different to releasing on Steam.

 

[Huntn]

As I think of iPad, it is a drastically different game environment as compared to Steam. Honestly I do no serious gaming in IOS.

 

[Aspyr-Blair]

Omitting the higher prices, but why in the mac app store there are many fewer games than the various steam / macgamestore?

Many fewer games.

I (like many other mac users) hate to use systems such as steam, but I really do not understand this difference.

Games like Fez, Football Manager, and many many others.

If they were on the MAS I would have already purchased, regardless of the price.

What do you think?

The reason is because developing for the MacAppStore is actually a very different beast than for Steam/other DRM.

When we or the fine folks at Feral decide to do a title on the App Store, we in many ways are developing a different game than the Steam version. This of course takes a bunch of time and a bunch of money that many developers/publishers (especially smaller ones) decide not to pursue.

We did a great blog article on the complexities of multiplayer development on the two platforms a ways back. It touches a bit on your question and is totally worth the time to read.

 

[Gu1b0]

The reason is because developing for the MacAppStore is actually a very different beast than for Steam/other DRM.

When we or the fine folks at Feral decide to do a title on the App Store, we in many ways are developing a different game than the Steam version. This of course takes a bunch of time and a bunch of money that many developers/publishers (especially smaller ones) decide not to pursue.

We did a great blog article on the complexities of multiplayer development on the two platforms a ways back. It touches a bit on your question and is totally worth the time to read.

thank you for the link, i will read it soon.

regardless the multiplayer, there are many games that are perfect for mac.
I do not know why NWN2 disappeared from MAS, but there are good MAC single player games like Dragon Age Origins, Star Wars KOTOR II, and many others games that already exists in MAC version, but they are not in the MAS.

I would buy them, keep in mind: D

 

[Huntn]

The reason is because developing for the MacAppStore is actually a very different beast than for Steam/other DRM.

When we or the fine folks at Feral decide to do a title on the App Store, we in many ways are developing a different game than the Steam version. This of course takes a bunch of time and a bunch of money that many developers/publishers (especially smaller ones) decide not to pursue.

We did a great blog article on the complexities of multiplayer development on the two platforms a ways back. It touches a bit on your question and is totally worth the time to read.

Outstanding article. The following is not a challenge to your expertise, just my observations.

It seems to me that what you see at the Mac App Store tends to be in a different realm, super casual gaming, mostly things like Plants vs Zombies, Simpson's Tapped Out, and Solitaire. This is not my defense of Apple, but an observation that when they take an iOS game under their wing, they are introducing it into their realm, their safety standards and right now they can afford to do that.

Myself, I'd never look to iOS to play any kind of a serious game, especially multiplayer. Although it could be fun on a local network to play some real time strategy games, like Kingdom Rush. But when I see a game like this, its simplicity seems to be designed for something like iOS, -casual-. For more demanding games, I'd break out my Mac, PC, or game console which are better equipped for such things. My uninformed impression is that for the types of casual games I would expect to play on iOS, developers can handle whatever Apple's requirements are, although that could be an issue for multiplayer.

If you were to categorize the areas where Apple sticks their nose into the game development of an iOS game, is it more than the control of adult content and DRM? Thanks!

 

[Aspyr-Blair]

If you were to categorize the areas where Apple sticks their nose into the game development of an iOS game, is it more than the control of adult content and DRM? Thanks!

Despite popular opinion, Apple actually doesnt stick their nose into anything outside of adult content and the framework that they allow for multiplayer/Gamecenter. In reality, its the customers that dictate what does well on the App Store. A quick peek into the top grossing games will tell you that the Mac App Store customer prefers strategy and simulation titles and plays a bit less of your core shooter/action titles than say, the Steam audience does.

 

[Huntn]

Despite popular opinion, Apple actually doesnt stick their nose into anything outside of adult content and the framework that they allow for multiplayer/Gamecenter. In reality, its the customers that dictate what does well on the App Store. A quick peek into the top grossing games will tell you that the Mac App Store customer prefers strategy and simulation titles and plays a bit less of your core shooter/action titles than say, the Steam audience does.

Strategy and simulation would be my choices too. I've tried some shooter/RPG Adventure games like Infinity Blade and although the graphics are impressive, the game controls much less so, lots and lots of (my index finger is sore) swiping.

 

[Nova Sensei]

I wish FTL would come to the Mac App Store.

Apple has made squillions taking 30% of all iOS sales. They should reinvest a tiny portion of that money into improving native Mac gaming.

 

[imacken]

I wish FTL would come to the Mac App Store.

Apple has made squillions taking 30% of all iOS sales. They should reinvest a tiny portion of that money into improving native Mac gaming.

FTL is available for Mac on Steam, and GOG.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

thank you for the link, i will read it soon.

regardless the multiplayer, there are many games that are perfect for mac.
I do not know why NWN2 disappeared from MAS, but there are good MAC single player games like Dragon Age Origins, Star Wars KOTOR II, and many others games that already exists in MAC version, but they are not in the MAS.

I would buy them, keep in mind: D

Is there some reason you cannot bear to buy games from someone other than Apple? And I don't mean Steam, necessarily. For example, I just bought Dragon Age Origins ULTIMATE Edition and Dragon Age II each for $4.99 for OSX on Amazon as an Amazon Download. I mean you can't beat $4.99 for what was originally probably well over $100 worth of content. Do you think I really CARE that I didn't get it from Apple's App Store? Screw Apple. I buy games from the CHEAPEST source OR the best FEATURE source (e.g. Steam has controller support for many games that do NOT have controller support on the App store like The Cave, for example and other games like Borderlands 2 are limited to Apple's Gaming Center (good luck setting up random matches there) whereas Steam let's you play against Mac and PC users on regular type servers where setting up a match with real people (including ones you don't know) is a breeze, not to mention that Steam usually gives you the Windows version for free with the Mac version (or vice versa depending on how you look at it) to boot.

BTW, I have never heard of Kotor 2 being available in a Mac verison, however. I got it for the PC and played it with the fan-fixed extras that attempted to put out what it should have been and despite a few bad tie-togethers for some footage, etc., it was pretty freaking AWESOME (way better than Kotor I when you see what they were going for; the way they screwed with Lucas' "perfect" good/evil Universe and turned it upside down and grey was worth every cent)

 

[Gu1b0]

Is there some reason you cannot bear to buy games from someone other than Apple? And I don't mean Steam, necessarily. For example, I just bought Dragon Age Origins ULTIMATE Edition and Dragon Age II each for $4.99 for OSX on Amazon as an Amazon Download. I mean you can't beat $4.99 for what was originally probably well over $100 worth of content. Do you think I really CARE that I didn't get it from Apple's App Store? Screw Apple. I buy games from the CHEAPEST source OR the best FEATURE source (e.g. Steam has controller support for many games that do NOT have controller support on the App store like The Cave, for example and other games like Borderlands 2 are limited to Apple's Gaming Center (good luck setting up random matches there) whereas Steam let's you play against Mac and PC users on regular type servers where setting up a match with real people (including ones you don't know) is a breeze, not to mention that Steam usually gives you the Windows version for free with the Mac version (or vice versa depending on how you look at it) to boot.

Because a DRM "free" game can be played via usb or external hd, saving a LOT of space.
I bought that 4.99$ Dragon Age, and i can play it via usb.

This is possible with steam/origin?

 

[Mackilroy]

With Steam you can move your games to an external disk--I don't know about Origin though.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Because a DRM "free" game can be played via usb or external hd, saving a LOT of space.
I bought that 4.99$ Dragon Age, and i can play it via usb.

This is possible with steam/origin?

As someone said, it's possible with Steam to put it on any drive you like. I'm not sure about Origin, but Dragon Age Origins isn't an Origin title on the Mac. Dragon Age II is, but I never tried to put it external (it installed using its own older than Origin installer first; I only needed Origin to fix the registration issue it had).

 

[Essenar]

If you want to value your developers you'll support their decision to put games on Steam.

It's better for you in the long run. Every game I buy on Steam, I can play on whatever machine I own. I'm one email-verification away from my 40+ games.

Now with SteamOS, when Linux versions surface, I can even play those.

Just today, I finished Bioshock Infinite on my Desktop. I started the game on my old 13" MacBook Pro (From my signature). I then moved to playing it on my Retina MacBook Pro 15" 2012 and now on vacation, I completed the single-player campaign on my Windows desktop (i5-2500K, Radeon R9 270x). The process was simple, I didn't lose any of my saved data.

With Borderlands 2, same thing. Save games were a bit complicated, but I only had to migrate my saves from PC-> Mac once. After that, they synced to Steam's cloud when I logged out and then my data was consistent.

One Steam purchase of Borderlands 2 gave me the game for three different operating systems. You can't do that with MAS. And Steam gives developers a better cut of the profit and it's not in their interest to do this differently.

Steam is already the #1 distributor of PC games and by a WIDE margin.

Their cut is favorable enough that Indie developers almost unanimously love working with Steam.

Update processes are smooth so updating your games isn't too difficult.

You'll have trouble getting a developer to openly admit how they feel about MAS vs Steam because the last thing they want to do is piss off a distributor but there's a reason most games are on Steam and not MAS. Do the math.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

You'll have trouble getting a developer to openly admit how they feel about MAS vs Steam because the last thing they want to do is piss off a distributor but there's a reason most games are on Steam and not MAS. Do the math.

I honestly don't know where you get this "most games" citation. In my experience, "most" Mac games are NOT on Steam. Certainly most of the big game titles are still conversions by companies like Aspyr that license the right to convert them (since many companies couldn't give a crap about making a Mac version). The problem is that companies like Aspyr do not like Steam because their Steamplay business model tends to screw the Mac developers over. Since you get both versions, which company gets the credit for the purchase is based on some kind of calculation and it favors Windows because there are more Windows users. Companies like Aspyr have to license the game to convert first and then they don't get credit for a Mac sale on Steam? What incentive do they have to put it on Steam at that point? Almost none. That's why so few Aspyr titles are on Steam. On the Mac App Store, they get credit for Mac sales and thus Aspyr games are all over the App Store (minus Apple's 30% cut of course). Other games (e.g. Dragon Age Origins) ARE on the Steam store, but only the Windows version once again. Go to Amazon.com and there is the Mac version and dirt cheap at that. It's not on Steam or MAS or even Origin (EA's own online game store/multiplayer system; although Dragon Age II is and you can get the Windows version of Dragon Age Origins for free on there after registering the Mac code there in addition to Bioware's site).

 

[imacken]

I honestly don't know where you get this "most games" citation. In my experience, "most" Mac games are NOT on Steam. Certainly most of the big game titles are still conversions by companies like Aspyr that license the right to convert them (since many companies couldn't give a crap about making a Mac version). The problem is that companies like Aspyr do not like Steam because their Steamplay business model tends to screw the Mac developers over. Since you get both versions, which company gets the credit for the purchase is based on some kind of calculation and it favors Windows because there are more Windows users. Companies like Aspyr have to license the game to convert first and then they don't get credit for a Mac sale on Steam? What incentive do they have to put it on Steam at that point? Almost none. That's why so few Aspyr titles are on Steam. On the Mac App Store, they get credit for Mac sales and thus Aspyr games are all over the App Store (minus Apple's 30% cut of course).

I really don't think you know what you are talking about here, with all due respect.
What are you basing the bold statement 'companies like Aspyr do not like Steam' on?
Most of Aspyr's big games are on Steam - the Civs, CODs, Borderlands, etc.
Various posts have been made in this forum about how the Steam pricing model works by reps of Aspyr (I think) and Feral, and it doesn't work in the way you describe.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

I really don't think you know what you are talking about here, with all due respect.
What are you basing the bold statement 'companies like Aspyr do not like Steam' on?
Most of Aspyr's big games are on Steam - the Civs, CODs, Borderlands, etc.
Various posts have been made in this forum about how the Steam pricing model works by reps of Aspyr (I think) and Feral, and it doesn't work in the way you describe.

Hey, I didn't make the decisions or the statements that said that. I read them and mentioned what I read. You can read them here yourself and see what you think here: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1644567

It says STEAM keeps one SKU (stock keeping unit) per steamplay title and that means that revenue is split between the Windows and PC versions and it follows the rules that Valve/Steam set up. Here is what Aspyr had to say:

Aspyr quote:

Credit is given to the platform that sees the most playtime through the first week of purchase. So if you play a SteamPlay game primarily on a PC for the first week, the Mac publisher will never see any compensation, even if you primarily play the Mac version afterwards.

On the sales side, Valve’s support of the Mac platform via Steam right now is reliant on publishers participating in Steam Play which is Valve’s program of releasing every game “Hybrid” despite who did the development work. Right now there is no compensation for the [Mac] publisher if their game is downloaded but not purchased. For the [Mac] publisher this is tough to swallow ...

Feral quote on the same topic:

Steam insists on selling dual version (PC & Mac) skus. This is a problem for us in that we lose control over the pricing, which is not something any company can afford to do.

It may be that Aspyr has decided they can't afford NOT to support Steam even if it does result in less profit per game given the Mac's market size. But there are plenty of titles I have bought on the Mac App Store or Amazon Downloads that are NOT available on Steam for the Mac but typically ARE for Windows. A few such titles are:


Lego Star Wars Complete

Lego Lord of the Rings

Call of Duty 1 & 2 (Black Ops is on Steam, but it's Mac only, not Steamplay so it loses value AND it costs $50 whereas the PC version costs $20 right now). Only Call of Duty 4 is Steamplay (same price with both versions)

The Secret of Monkey Island Special Edition

Star Wars: Empire At War

Dragon Age Origins

Dragon Age II


Now I have seen some games I got on the Mac App Store become Steamplay available, but not right away so things might be changing (including Steam's policies), but I can only go on the information I can obtain.

 

[deadwulfe]

Magnus,

Edwin from Feral has explained in these forums their model with the few games they have available through Steam and it works contrary to your assumption of that all sales are split between Windows and Mac. Even with one SKU, sales can be assigned 100% to the Mac developer or PC developer, depending on when it was purchased and what OS was used to install the game.

The truth of the matter is that any arrangement can be made between the owner of a game and the Mac or Linux developers; not just the one license model you assume applies to everybody.

I don't know why you're trying to argue a point using assumptions. If you don't know the facts, you cannot tell someone else that they are wrong based on inaccurate assumptions.

Besides, imacken is correct. Most, if not all, of Aspyr's current titles are available on Steam. The ones that are not available are those that were released before Steamplay was an option.

Also, you misunderstood Essenar's "most games" statement. It was a relative statement, not an absolute statement; as in, "...there is a reason most games that are on Steam with a Mac port available are not also on the MAS."

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Magnus,

Edwin from Feral has explained in these forums their model with the few games they have available through Steam and it works contrary to your assumption of that all sales are split between Windows and Mac. Even with one SKU, sales can be assigned 100% to the Mac developer or PC developer, depending on when it was purchased and what OS was used to install the game.

The truth of the matter is that any arrangement can be made between the owner of a game and the Mac or Linux developers; not just the one license model you assume applies to everybody.

I don't know why you're trying to argue a point using assumptions. If you don't know the facts, you cannot tell someone else that they are wrong based on inaccurate assumptions.

Besides, imacken is correct. Most, if not all, of Aspyr's current titles are available on Steam. The ones that are not available are those that were released before Steamplay was an option.

Also, you misunderstood Essenar's "most games" statement. It was a relative statement, not an absolute statement; as in, "...there is a reason most games that are on Steam with a Mac port available are not also on the MAS."

I don't know WTF you keep saying I made "assumptions". Can you not READ???? I mean seriously, guy, I posted the exact links and the exact quotes of where I got my information. They are not assumptions. They are stated verbatim from the sources listed above. If that information is not accurate at this point, that is not my fault or my problem as I posted the sources. Don't talk to me about assumptions as that is a blatant crock of BS designed to try to and make me look stupid or something rather than dealing with the reality of what was said verbatim by Aspyr and Feral on the matter and taken quoted from a FAQ posted on Steam's own support forums.

If how Steam interacts with them NOW has changed, go tell the people on those forums to update their FAQ. I was just passing along the information. You apparently have NO explanation what-so-ever why so many Mac games are not available on Steam that are available elsewhere. They just wanted to pass on more profits? Whatever the reason, the original statement that Steam has MORE Mac games than other sources surely isn't proven in my mind given so many of their games fail to offer a Mac version despite there being a Mac version out there.

 

[deadwulfe]

My whole point was that there are other reliable sources of information available and I find it unfair for you to belittle board members based on incomplete arguments.

The sum of all knowledge on the matter doesn't have to be contained within the 1 FAQ you've read, nor is it my job to update it. If you want to get defensive and take my comments personally just because I put holes into your arguments, that's your choice to continue doing so. My opinion is that you should take a step back and question your understanding before you make a bold statement in an attempt to crush what other people have to say.

TL;DR - You come off as rude.