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Why no native sleep tracking app

satchmo

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 6, 2008
2,960
2,920
Canada
Dumb question perhaps, but why isn’t there one? The AW has enough battery to last more than one night. Yes, there are third-party apps, but you think Apple would have included this by now.

This is not as bad as not including a native calculator app on the iPad, but it’s up there.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2013
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471
Dumb question perhaps, but why isn’t there one? The AW has enough battery to last more than one night. Yes, there are third-party apps, but you think Apple would have included this by now.

This is not as bad as not including a native calculator app on the iPad, but it’s up there.

It will come... On a future model, then it will not be back offered because the current models wont have the processing power to handle it (even though they do).
 
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matrix07

macrumors 603
Jun 24, 2010
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I use Autosleep as well, and am very happy with it. Love the way it breaks down deep sleep vs overall sleep and the way it incorporates rings.

Another happy customer here. And with new update the app is just much better. I especially like Light Off feature that let the app knows exactly when I intend to go to sleep.

I think the main reason why Apple still didn’t include native sleep tracking app is because of battery life. Yes, we can say the battery is enough but Apple always be anal about it and they won’t include something like this when they still didn’t solve WHEN we should charge the watch instead.

With the news that the app will come soon, that would mean battery life for the new watch could be much better.
 

PaladinGuy

macrumors 6502a
Sep 22, 2014
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Another happy customer here. And with new update the app is just much better. I especially like Light Off feature that let the app knows exactly when I intend to go to sleep.

I think the main reason why Apple still didn’t include native sleep tracking app is because of battery life. Yes, we can say the battery is enough but Apple always be anal about it and they won’t include something like this when they still didn’t solve WHEN we should charge the watch instead.

With the news that the app will come soon, that would mean battery life for the new watch could be much better.

It would be awesome, if you’re right. However, I highly doubt battery life on the next Apple Watch series will be significantly better. I just don’t think the technology is there. The only way to get amazing battery life is to cut features out (including screen quality) and/or make the watch bigger. Apple isn’t doing either of those things. I don’t know much about MicroLED technology, but I don’t think that would give battery life a massive jump - maybe a slight improvement.
 

matrix07

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Jun 24, 2010
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It would be awesome, if you’re right. However, I highly doubt battery life on the next Apple Watch series will be significantly better. I just don’t think the technology is there. The only way to get amazing battery life is to cut features out (including screen quality) and/or make the watch bigger. Apple isn’t doing either of those things. I don’t know much about MicroLED technology, but I don’t think that would give battery life a massive jump - maybe a slight improvement.

That’s true for battery technology however my thinking is inline of chip technology, AI, and smart use of low power mode. For example it takes 10-12% of my S3 to track sleep all night with AutoSleep. With native tracking Apple could intelligently use low power mode to save some battery. If they can reduce it to, say, 4-5% of my S3 that would be negligent for people who will have S5 for example.
 

racerhomie

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2015
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It will come... On a future model, then it will not be back offered because the current models wont have the processing power to handle it (even though they do).
Are you freaking kidding me. Use a 3rd party app to track sleep, or on your iPhone with Sleep Cycle. The watch was meant to be charged at night.
 

kenaustus

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2003
372
11
Sleep is a complicates issue that can be addressed by every methods.

For general sleep issues Autosleep looks pretty good and I've just bought it.

My problem was snoring combined with an irritated wife with a sharp elbow. That led to a sleep study and a new cpap device.

The cost of the sleep study can be reduced using a home study, like the one at https://www.resmed.com/us/en/consumer/diagnosis-and-treatment/what-is-sleep-apnea/diagnosis.html

(I went to ResMed Bec use that is the brand I have used since 1998.)

Even cheaper (Free) is having someone with a stopwatch in the room with you as you happily snore away. Time the length of tine you simply sleep & snore and then the length of time you stop breathing/snoring. You'll start up with a "snort" and start snoring again. Any time you stop breathing for longer than 10 seconds. you are having an "event". I had 55 events an hour in my sleep study and the longest one was 45 seconds.

If you can't find someone willing to time you when THEY could be sleeping then get an old cassette tape recorder with a 2 for tape and record yourself. That could be scary.

As for Apple advancing into sleep medicine I believe that the next step has to be PulseOx (the level of oxygen in the b mood). IN a sleep study they attach 10 - 12 sensors so the need for Apple would be to define which to do next and PulseOx is a no-brainer for the watch. PulseOx and Blood Sugars are keys to the two biggest issues we are facing these days,
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2013
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Are you freaking kidding me. Use a 3rd party app to track sleep, or on your iPhone with Sleep Cycle. The watch was meant to be charged at night.

I DO use a 3rd party app (Autosleep), did you not read the reason this thread exists? This was a question as to WHY Apple doesn't have a native sleep tracking app (I mean it is in the thread title). My sarcastic response was inline with how Apple has rolled out new features. They typically will roll out the feature in a future model, making it unique to newer models even though 3rd party apps have been successfully doing it with older models.

And why do you say the watch was meant to be charged at night?

I'm not sure Apple has designed or meant the watch to be charged any time other than when the customer wants to charge it. And since my watch is charged right before bed and is at 100% by bedtime, I'm not sure why by your theory I need to change my personal choice of charging time.
[doublepost=1560953437][/doublepost]
As for Apple advancing into sleep medicine I believe that the next step has to be PulseOx (the level of oxygen in the b mood). IN a sleep study they attach 10 - 12 sensors so the need for Apple would be to define which to do next and PulseOx is a no-brainer for the watch. PulseOx and Blood Sugars are keys to the two biggest issues we are facing these days,

But why hold back? Why not add the features that apps like AutoSleep do (hours of sleep, deep sleep using heart rate, movement when sleeping), then as the sensor technology progresses, add new functionality? For example how Apple used the heart rate sensor, then added ECG to the heart tracking app.

I have diagnosed sleep apnea, and use my S4 AW as a companion to my machine, since my apnea machine (CPAP) does not have heart rate tracking. As the tech progresses (i.e. adding pulseOx) it would then be an additional data set I can provide to medical practitioners, and use for my own analysis.

No need to hold back tech that can be useful in the current fashion, as a Chief Medical Officer I used to work for always would say (obviously not his saying, but something he would remind us in meetings) "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good."
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2013
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Sleep Tracking
Clock > Bedtime > Setup
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208655

This tracks hours you sleep, but doesn't have the data that AutoSleep has.

Apple Sleep Tracking:
Sleep Time
Time in Bed

AutoSleep:
Sleep Time
Quality Sleep
Deep Sleep
BPM

AutoSleep also provides a deep analysis of your sleep including heart analysis during sleep.

Apple really needs to come up with their own version of this, executing it as part of the OS.
 
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BSG75

macrumors 6502
Jul 21, 2015
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Tennessee
I use AutoSleep and I'm pretty happy with it overall. I always sleep wearing my AW 4 to track sleep and for an alarm in the morning. On the days where I wear my AW all day (some days I wear my mechanicals), I just need to top off the battery in the evening.

I think the current AW could support native sleep tracking. The battery life is really good. I would think that if you charged the watch while showering and getting ready for the day, you'd have plenty of battery to get you through the day.
 

ManicMarc

macrumors 6502
Jul 1, 2012
456
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Dumb question perhaps, but why isn’t there one? The AW has enough battery to last more than one night. Yes, there are third-party apps, but you think Apple would have included this by now.

This is not as bad as not including a native calculator app on the iPad, but it’s up there.

Most Apple followers will tell you this is because of battery life concerns.

However, sleep tracking based on movement is not a precise science, and can even make some people's sleep worse (recommend you read the full article and follow the links to the various studies). Real sleep tracking requires monitoring of brain signals.

So based on how Apple have approached other forms of health tracking, I like to think they'll hold off until they have a product that is actually useful and likely to have a positive impact on people.

It boils down to, with the exception of a few rare conditions, if you wake up feeling refreshed you had a good night's sleep, if you don't feel refreshed you probably had a poor nights sleep. You don't need a fitness tracker for that.

And yes, I understand that Apple own the sleep tracking company Pillow, but I reckon it's kept at arm's length for a reason.
 

matrix07

macrumors 603
Jun 24, 2010
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However, sleep tracking based on movement is not a precise science, and can even make some people's sleep worse (recommend you read the full article and follow the links to the various studies). Real sleep tracking requires monitoring of brain signals.

So based on how Apple have approached other forms of health tracking, I like to think they'll hold off until they have a product that is actually useful and likely to have a positive impact on people.

Good point. Still love my AutoSleep though.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
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Destin, FL
It boils down to, with the exception of a few rare conditions, if you wake up feeling refreshed you had a good night's sleep, if you don't feel refreshed you probably had a poor nights sleep. You don't need a fitness tracker for that.
I'm of the generation (honey badger) that believes this very thing. There are additional generations of users that need validation for most everything... breakfast, exercise, cats, cars, sleep, etc.
 
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Dino F

macrumors 68040
Sep 16, 2010
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Croydon, South London, UK
I don't think a native sleep tracker will ever come.

Apple have designed the watch to be worn during the day - if they start to include a native sleep tracker on future models, then when do they expect us to charge our watches (most of us do not have 2 watches - one for daytime, one for nightime) ?!! o_O
 

whsbuss

macrumors 68040
May 4, 2010
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SE Penna.
I don't think a native sleep tracker will ever come.

Apple have designed the watch to be worn during the day - if they start to include a native sleep tracker on future models, then when do they expect us to charge our watches (most of us do not have 2 watches - one for daytime, one for nightime) ?!! o_O
As I stated before, my S4 watch has great battery power. At the end of the day I usually have 40-50% available. So if I decide to sleep track I just do it. Then a 20 minute charge as I prepare for the day is enough to get me through
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 65816
Nov 7, 2013
1,068
471
I don't think a native sleep tracker will ever come.

Apple have designed the watch to be worn during the day - if they start to include a native sleep tracker on future models, then when do they expect us to charge our watches (most of us do not have 2 watches - one for daytime, one for nightime) ?!! o_O

I don't know if you have a S4, but you can fully charge the watch in < 2hrs. I happen to have my old S0 watch that I wear during this up to 2 hours (normally I only need to put it on the charger for 1 hour), but If you watch an hour of tv, or read a book for that hour, you have plenty of battery to wear the watch the rest of the day.
[doublepost=1561057149][/doublepost]
Most Apple followers will tell you this is because of battery life concerns.

However, sleep tracking based on movement is not a precise science, and can even make some people's sleep worse (recommend you read the full article and follow the links to the various studies). Real sleep tracking requires monitoring of brain signals.

So based on how Apple have approached other forms of health tracking, I like to think they'll hold off until they have a product that is actually useful and likely to have a positive impact on people.

It boils down to, with the exception of a few rare conditions, if you wake up feeling refreshed you had a good night's sleep, if you don't feel refreshed you probably had a poor nights sleep. You don't need a fitness tracker for that.

And yes, I understand that Apple own the sleep tracking company Pillow, but I reckon it's kept at arm's length for a reason.

Apple added distance walked/run before adding GPS to their watch (S0,S1). It had the potential of being pretty far off if you didn't carry your phone with you. So, I do not sit on the side of saying Apple will only implement something because it has the required sensors.

Another example is, using Apple's actual sleep analysis in the health app, tracks time in bed and time asleep... How does it know you are actually asleep without neurological sensors?
 

KeanosMagicHat

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2012
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. . . when do they expect us to charge our watches (most of us do not have 2 watches - one for daytime, one for nightime) ?!! o_O

My Watch takes less than 2 hours to charge.

Unless you have an extraordinarily active lifestyle, I would think that most of us have a period of 2 hours in a day where we can sacrifice a few steps to charge the Watch.

I tend to charge it whilst preparing, eating and cleaning up after an evening meal, or perhaps when watching a Movie.

That way I can use the excellent free SleepWatch app to monitor my sleep.

Sleep is an essential component of both physical and mental health.

Apple heavily markets the Watch as a Health companion, so I’d be very surprised if they didn’t include Sleep Monitoring as a feature going forward.
 
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