Why no quad core 13"?

[Samuelsan2001]

I'd like to think that one day they'll find a way around the heat constraints and manage to include quad core inside the 13''. I think everyone knows the reason why there isn't a quad in the 13'' body by now, but that doesn't mean there won't ever be a way to do it.

Well we are reaching the lower limits of gate size for silicon 14 nm proved very difficult for Intel and 10nm has been put back at least a year already.

This shrink is a big factor so better architecture will have to make up the difference for this to happen.

 

[Queen6]

VAIO Canvas Z 12" tablet form factor with Quad Core i7 CPU (Haskell 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7-4770HQ) driving a high quality 3:2 aspect ratio, 2560 x 1704 IPS display with apparent ease.

Apple simply do not want to produce such a product, as a 13" Retina MacBook with Quad Core CPU. I don't see it being any more complex than this, not that it`s technical unfeasible.

Q-6

 

[Samuelsan2001]

VAIO Canvas Z 12" tablet form factor with Quad Core i7 CPU (Haskell 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7-4770HQ) driving a high quality 3:2 aspect ratio, 2560 x 1704 IPS display with apparent ease.

Apple simply do not want to produce such a product, as a 13" Retina MacBook with Quad Core CPU. I don't see it being any more complex than this, not that it`s technical unfeasible.

Q-6

Technically feasible in no way means technically optimal.....

 

[Queen6]

Technically feasible in no way means technically optimal.....

Personally I would be happier with a thicker notebook that had the inclusion of the quad core CPU, unfortunately Apple is obsessed with making everything as thin and light as possible, at the cost of many other aspects. Net result is the MBP is now a very average notebook. VAIO has done a great job with the Canvas, just a pity sales are limited to a few countries at present.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Personally I would be happier with a thicker notebook that had the inclusion of the quad core CPU, unfortunately Apple is obsessed with making everything as thin and light as possible, at the cost of many other aspects. Net result is the MBP is now a very average notebook. VAIO has done a great job with the Canvas, just a pity sales are limited to a few countries at present.

Can't agree at all the 13 inch rMBP is easily the best all round laptop I have used, it's powerful enough to do all but the most intense tasks, great screen good connectivity, decent graphics, brilliant battery life and it's thin and light to carry around.

Apple have been making all round computers that don't focus on any one aspect for at least a decade and the latest rMBP 13 is the best expression of that. If that's not what you need then you have a choice, buy something else, it's not rocket science.

 

[Queen6]

Can't agree at all the 13 inch rMBP is easily the best all round laptop I have used, it's powerful enough to do all but the most intense tasks, great screen good connectivity, decent graphics, brilliant battery life and it's thin and light to carry around.

Apple have been making all round computers that don't focus on any one aspect for at least a decade and the latest rMBP 13 is the best expression of that. If that's not what you need then you have a choice, buy something else, it's not rocket science.

I may well do, as for me it`s just a work tool, not a religion...

Q-6

 

[PTLove]

Id much rather have them include a ~30Watt discrete GPU.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I may well do, as for me it`s just a work tool, not a religion...

Q-6

I agree it's just a tool, fortunately for me it's the perfect tool for my use if it wasn't I'd buy something else.
[doublepost=1458656909][/doublepost]

Id much rather have them include a ~30Watt discrete GPU.

Leaving you TDP for the 5W core m found in the MacBook good luck with that.

 

[Queen6]

[doublepost=1458658870][/doublepost]

I agree it's just a tool, fortunately for me it's the perfect tool for my use if it wasn't I'd buy something else.

That`s the plan if Apple fails to impress.

Q-6

 

[PTLove]

I agree it's just a tool, fortunately for me it's the perfect tool for my use if it wasn't I'd buy something else.
[doublepost=1458656909][/doublepost]

Leaving you TDP for the 5W core m found in the MacBook good luck with that.

Not necessarily. The engineering required to cool 2 seperate 30W packages, usually on opposite ends of the notebook, is different than 1 45 watt package if they were to add a quad core.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Not necessarily. The engineering required to cool 2 seperate 30W packages, usually on opposite ends of the notebook, is different than 1 45 watt package if they were to add a quad core.

Maybe so but the 13 inch MacBook is a 35W package more importantly there really isn't the space for that unless you want a 3 hour battery life. Apple have already assessed all of these trade offs when they design their products. They have decided that a thin light laptop with decent dual core performance and fantastic battery life is the best all round solution for the largest number of users and let's be honest they are pretty much right.
This may not be what YOU want but hey that's just tough because the last thing I want is a hot 13 inch machine with numerous noisy fans and a rubbish battery life....

 

[treekram]

The tech press was impressed with the Vaio Z Canvas. Incidentally, it uses the same Haswell processor used in the current 15" 2.2 Ghz MBP. The trade-off here is the 3 fans (supposedly tuned so their sound emissions cancel each other out) and the battery life. Sony does not state battery life on the web sites I saw. One tester I saw got 2-1/2 hours, another 6 hours.

So, a major company has done quad-core in a tablet form. Interestingly enough, I looked at the US Vaio website and it seems like that's the only laptop/tablet they have with a quad-core. But for those wanting the quad-core, what price would you be willing to pay? The current MBP i5 2.7Ghz, 8GB RAM is $1499, add 8GB and it's $1699. The 15" i7 2.2Ghz with 16GB is $1999. A i5 dual to i7 quad upgrade is usually at least $200 in Apple products. The logic board, which would have to be designed solely for the 13" i7 and the extra hardware needed for cooling (remember the 3 fans for the Vaio), that's going to cost something. If you price it at $1999 or $1899, how many people would actually elect to buy a 13" vs. 15" and would it be worthwhile for Apple?

 

[zephonic]

The problem with this processor is that it runs at 2Ghz (up to 2.8Ghz) and uses the HD 530 GPU. Compare that with the current 13" MBP which is 2.7Ghz (presuming they would use a similar processor for a Skylake model). For those tasks that are not multi-threaded, that would be a noticeable difference. The HD 530 has a benchmark figure of 442 GFlops, vs. 845 GFlops for the Iris Graphics 6100 in the 2015 13" MBP (a Skylake version would likely be noticeably higher).

Yeah, I missed that. I thought it had the HD580. It seems this CPU is not quite the drop-in replacement I thought it was.

You have made the mistake of thinking 4cores is always better than 2 just like all those arm processors that get spanked by apples dual cores every year.

Or maybe I just happen to know that my particular workflow would benefit from a quad-core?

 

[nahkampfwombi]

Quad Core? Jeah why not. Supposed to be a little more future proof.
I'd like to have... 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM, Quad core and some sort of fast iGPU. 580? 550? I just want to be able to play some games too

 

[venom600]

Technically feasible in no way means technically optimal.....

I had a quad core, discrete graphics, bluray burning, carbon fiber bodied, full HD 13" Vaio a decade ago. It was less than 4lbs. It was the machine I begged Apple to build, and the only reason I don't have one now is because iTunes is so terrible on Windows and because Sony stopped making them. It is eminently possible to make a very usable machine premium 13" notebook, as Vaio is still showing.

 

[treekram]

Quad Core? Jeah why not. Supposed to be a little more future proof.
I'd like to have... 512GB SSD, 16GB RAM, Quad core and some sort of fast iGPU. 580? 550? I just want to be able to play some games too

If you could get the 15" for $100 more or at the same price as a hypothetical 13", would you buy the 13" or the 15"?

Amazon has the Vaio Canvas Z 8GB RAM 256GB SSD for $1129, a 49% discount. A 3rd-party Amazon seller has the 16GB RAM, 512 SSD for $1459. It runs Windows but maybe with some work it could be turned into a Hackintosh. Anybody thinking of or know somebody thinking of buying them at these prices?

 

[mlts22]

I'd just be happy with the ability to replace RAM, SSDs, and the battery.

 

[zephonic]

If you could get the 15" for $100 more or at the same price as a hypothetical 13", would you buy the 13" or the 15"?

All other specs being equal? 13", no doubt.

I'm typing this on my humble 2013 MBA, and if I could get the required performance in this form factor, I'd take that in a heartbeat. The MBA is the perfect laptop design, IMO.

 

[OldMike]

The HD 530 has a benchmark figure of 442 GFlops, vs. 845 GFlops for the Iris Graphics 6100 in the 2015 13" MBP (a Skylake version would likely be noticeably higher). You could use a dGPU, but then you have the heat issue again. A computer using the processor would have marketing positioning issues for Apple.

As far as graphics go, it is my understanding that the Intel HD 530 has almost identical performance to the Iris Graphics 6100. From the benchmark you quoted, one would assume the Iris Graphics 6100 was almost twice as fast as the HD 530, which it is not.

Intel Iris Graphics 6100 Benchmarks:

3DMark Ice Storm GPU: 89,341
3DMark Cloud Gate GPU: 7,798
3DMark11 P GPU: 1,694.5
3DM Vant. P GPU: 5,717
3DMark06: 8,764

Intel HD 530 Benchmarks:

3DMark Ice Storm GPU: 88,461
3DMark Cloud Gate GPU: 8,598
3DMark11 P GPU: 1,453.5
3DM Vant. P GPU: 5,586.5
3DMark06: 11,360

For Skylake, even the lowly Intel HD 520 found in most budget laptops can pretty closely keep up with the Iris 6100

These figures came from http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

 

[leman]

This topic keeps repeating every few month, for the sake of all thats holy, please use search. There are NO QUAD CORE CPUS IN EXISTENCE that fit the thermal specs of the 13" MBP. Complaining about horrible Apple who just want to annoy they costumers won't help. You can try complaining about the laws of physics and the people who actually build CPUs.

 

[satinsilverem2]

I don't really need a quad core in a 13 inch per say but I wouldn't mind having a model with discrete graphics. The dual core processors offered in models today are very powerful but the integrated graphics is what really holds them back from being a real "pro" level laptop.

 

[Sun Baked]

Was hoping we'd end up with quads and Iris pro in the 13" laptop, and quads and AMD graphics in all the 15" laptops.

 

[Razeus]

because of thermal constraints. the 13" chassis is too small to provide adequate cooling for a quad core CPU running at full TDP. That, and they want to give you reasons to upgrade to the 15". Same reason why there is no dedicated graphics on the 13" either

And yet Dell And others can do it

 

[bfid111]

And yet Dell And others can do it

Which Dell 13 inch laptops have a quad core cpu?

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Yeah, I missed that. I thought it had the HD580. It seems this CPU is not quite the drop-in replacement I thought it was.




Or maybe I just happen to know that my particular workflow would benefit from a quad-core?

Get a quad core laptop then there are plenty of them around.