why on Earth get a ACD?

[SMM]

lol

dell 2007wfp:340$ > apple 20': 700$
dell 2007fp 1600x1200:360$

dell 2407wfp:680$ > apple 23':1k$

dell 3007wfp:1280$ > apple 30': 2k$

the dells are all better in quality and price and i personally dont think the dells look bad at all.

Sorry, but I actually HAVE both brands in all configurations. The Dells are fine. Very usable and attractive at their price. They are NOT as good as the Apples and I am looking at both, side by side. I would not criticize any one for making either choice. So not see why anyone else needs to either.

 

[Blue Velvet]

For the last five minutes or so, I've been trying to look for the really interesting thread that was started about 2-3 months ago, that went into some detail about the inner technical workings of LCD panels and how the ACDs were emphatically not the same as the Dells.

I can't find it though; it should have been made a sticky.

 

[Glen Quagmire]

I've got an Eizo with my Mac Pro (a S2110W) and when in an Apple Store recently, I was having a bit of a drool over the 30" ACD and even over the 23" model.

If you can't afford an Eizo, IMHO the ACD is the next best thing. If I didn't have my Eizo and were to buy an LCD now, I would seriously consider the 23" or 30" ACD, mainly due to their aesthetics. The Eizo, as wonderful as it is (and it is fantastic) is black, and doesn't match my Mac Pro. And, at £720 ($1300 or more), it was pretty expensive.

 

[gekko513]

Eizo displays like i said are unarguably expensive - but the difference in price buys a host of features that Apple should have at the price they are asking.
Just so dissapoining!

Can I ask what those need-to-have features are? I took a look at EIZOs home page. The displays seem to have height adjustment which is a positive, but I don't know how many actually need it. Then it has adjustment controls, which really should be done by a calibration tool. And finally there are some marketing speech about new colour technology that I don't really understand what's about. Are there any tests that show the EIZO to have more accurate colour representation than the ACD or other monitors? I doubt it.

The Dell displays seem to be the better choice for the price conscious consumer, but I assume that for a graphics professional the price difference is minuscule compared to colour accuracy as a decision factor. I don't know how the ACDs and the Dell displays compare for that. I tried to do a search to find which displays are SWOP certified and it seems that at the very least the Apple displays and some EIZO displays are, link, but this was in 2004. I don't know if there are more.

 

[combatcolin]

For the last five minutes or so, I've been trying to look for the really interesting thread that was started about 2-3 months ago, that went into some detail about the inner technical workings of LCD panels and how the ACDs were emphatically not the same as the Dells.

I can't find it though; it should have been made a sticky.

The big Dell's have a lot more connectivity - which also means a lot more internal electronics.

The big Apples could be seen as a sort of High End Hi-Fi, if it isn't needed it simply isn't there.

 

[zoran]

Nobody is forcing you to buy an Apple display. You have dozens of display manufacturers to choose from?

Apple is forcing me with the fantastic design and the terrific branding shes made thougout all these years. Now its time that she should stand up to meet its customers requirements.

You're just wasting your own time and energy complaining about how Apple doesn't make the exact display for the exact price you want. Sheesh, get real... what do you complain to BMW that they do not make a cheaper model? Maybe I should complain to Sun that their SPARC stations are so expensive that I cannot even afford one! Who would imagine anybody would make anything I cannot afford!!!

No thats not what i say, i dont say make it cheeper so i can afford it. I can afford EIZO, i only say make it professional like what it should be, afterall Apple is creative pro oriented!

Well, if 10" thick cheap black plastic that creaks and shakes when you try to adjust it is your opinion of nice... then go and buy one
I'll keep all my ACDs thank you.

Dell is not that bad as u say.
One bad thing about ACDs though is that they only match the MacPro case which normally is hidden under the desk, shouldnt they match mouse and keybord more? More like Benq Apple look displays?

 

[CanadaRAM]

why on Earth get a ACD?

Because they haven't opened an Apple Store on Mars yet.

 

[zoran]

Because they haven't opened an Apple Store on Mars yet.

Actually no, its because they havent opened an Apple store in Greece yet
http://www.wewantapplegreece.com/
and im deadly serious about this!

 

[Benjamindaines]

the dells are all better in quality and price and i personally dont think the dells look bad at all.

No, sorry but Dells really aren't of the same quality. Take the 24" display VS the Apple 23 for example, they are the same resolution (same number of pixels) but the Dell is an inch larger. What does this mean? Well, it means that the pixels are larger on the Dell resulting in a less sharp image. Professionals need the sharper image so Apple is the choice.

I can't criticize you on your opinion of looks, because it's just that your opinion, but I personally think the Apple screens look much better.

What do ya know we've gotten ourselves into another Apple-Dell debate :\

 

[ATD]

Are there any tests that show the EIZO to have more accurate colour representation than the ACD or other monitors? I doubt it.

Yes, it's called a deltaE measurement. A deltaE is the measurement of a monitors color accuracy, 1 deltaE is the first point a human eye can tell the difference between two tones. A deltaE measurement of 0 means that there is no difference between the actual color and how it's displayed on the monitor, in essence 0 is prefect. I have seen plenty of tests with all the monitors but I have yet to find one that compares all the ones mentioned here (EIZO, Barco, ACD and the Dell) side by side. Generally the EIZO and Barcos are the lowest deltaE measurement (better) then the ACD followed by the Dell.

I see plenty of people in this thread saying that they are judging a monitors color with "looks good". That is kind of like defining a cars performance by it's shiny paint job, a completely useless measurement.

BTW, Barco no longer makes a graphic arts monitor (Reference Calibrator and the Personal Calibrator) so the top spot now belongs to EIZO.

 

[techster85]

so glad you brought this up, what is up with the airport base station? wow, apple you really like to pull this kinda wild card every once and a while. such a waste of money

agreed! especially with comparable routers (and even some that are far better) being priced at nearly half the apple asking rate. Seems a little strange, but, logos are everything to some people...

 

[zoran]

but, logos are everything to some people...

Well we live in a design/beauty/looks based society and i cant blame anyone thinking that way, including my self.
However there are limits...and with this thread thats what i want to pinpoint. Lets not get carried away with looks and see whats out there, what should be there and lets not get affordable/cheep prices let as get carried away. We have the right to ask for more from Apple especially from a product thats so many years unchanged and only has had few spec/price bumps. ACDs should be reinvented, but i guess this will happen when MacPro changes looks [damn it!]
Thats my opinion!

 

[bousozoku]

Ok i agree the logo/design issue is trully strong, no doubt, but somehow Apple must get the msg that it isnt enough, cause high specs and other gismos are so important. Perhaps we must begin an embargo on the ACDs until Apple launches all new ACDs.

Apple be fair with us, and we will support you, no doubt!

If not il lgo get a Dell or even better ... EIZO!

That's amusing. What kind of creative people need gizmos for their monitors and what kind of gizmos are these?

I was always under the impression that you needed a stable monitor that produced colours that were close to reality so that you created content that looked as though you knew what you were doing with a computer.

Consumers can use Dell, Samsung, et alia, but when it comes to doing paid graphics work, I don't see the point if the colour is so far away from reality. You could end up wasting thousands of dollars by having colours you think will work that don't look anything like what you needed. (Experience dictates that you will know the difference but for someone new, who doesn't know their Pantone colours..."yeah, scrap that run, too.")

 

[7on]

Why? Because some people want the logo/design. Some people just don't know any better. Same reasoning behind the Airport Base Station.

I'd assume the Apple Base Stations will work 100% of the time and not 80% of the time like my Linksys wrt54G

 

[orangezorki]

FYI, Eizo have dropped their prices on their widescreen monitors recently - at least they did here in the UK. I've just picked up the 24" S2410 for £770, the same price as the 23" ACD. It's great, and Eizo lived up to their reputation by shipping me a pixel perfect panel. Of course, with my luck, I actually witnessed a subpixel go bad after a few hours, but I can hardly complain, and it's still a stunning display.

David

 

[Blue Velvet]

I've just picked up the 24" S2410 for £770, the same price as the 23" ACD.

If you don't mind me asking, where from? We're in the market for new monitors come Spring and even though I've budgeted for ACDs, it doesn't mean that's what we're going to end up with.

 

[MacsAttack]

Currently considering purchase of a new display, I started to do some research.

Some of the more interesting highlights...

23 inch ACD with Apple Care £848 (this is after the recent prie drop), £779 without Apple Care.

24 inch Dell 2407WFP (3 years swapout) £566.64

24 inch Eizo S2410W (5 year/30,000 hour warrenty - silver/white to match everthing else on the desktop) £789.38 (including next day delivery BTW. Dell quotes 5-7 days, Apple 10 - but every time I've ordered somthing from them it has taken about three weeks to get the order)

24 inch Eizo ColorEdge CE240W (5 year/30,000 hour warenty ) only £1263.13

Were things get intersting is that the Eizo S2410W is less expensive than the ACD, much better speced (the only exception being the firewire hub in the ACD), and Eizo have a far better "dead pixel" replacemnt policy.

Sad thing is that the ACDs were cutting edge when they came out, but Apple have let them slip into being mid-range displays but still (even after a price cut) charge way too much and deliver far too little.

 

[2ndPath]

I don't really see the problem here. Apple builds a screen which has partly better and maybe also partly worse quality than the dell displays, certainly uses a more expensive case and put the normal Apple premium on it. So in the end you get a product which is above average quality and above average price. This is essentially the same for all Macs. The nice thing about external displays is that if you are looking for one, you can get and ACD or basically any other display which suits your needs better. So you have much more options for the displays than you have for the Computers (if you want to run OS X).

 

[AdeFowler]

For what it's worth, I'm a creative pro and have been using a 30" ACD in a production environment for nearly two years. It is simply stunning. My first concern was the lack of height adjustment, but that's proved to be completely unnecessary.

I personally believe that for most people, the need for colour calibration is exaggerated. Using OSX's built in tools, Indesign, Photoshop and Acrobat documents are a close match to what's coming off the press.

Just my two pence

 

[zoran]

That's amusing. What kind of creative people need gizmos for their monitors and what kind of gizmos are these?

Heres one,
Dynamic Motion Picture Overdrive (ACDs don't have this new gizmo - remember that they are quite dated designs)

and another
Brightness Stabilization Function Ensures stable brightness - necessary for the proper display of colour - with EIZO patented technology. A drift correction sensor quickly stabilizes the brightness level after startup or coming out of power saving mode. Furthermore, the monitor detects and automatically compensates for brightness changes caused by surrounding temperatures and the passage of time. (All LCDs brighness drops over time - ACDs have nothing like this to compensate)

want more????

 

[gekko513]

Heres one,
Dynamic Motion Picture Overdrive (ACDs don't have this new gizmo - remember that they are quite dated designs)

Marketing department did a good job on that one.

(All LCDs brighness drops over time - ACDs have nothing like this to compensate)

recalibration? I don't think it'd be wise to trust the Eizo monitor keeping the correct colour balance over time even with this feature. So you have to recalibrate anyway.

... Generally the EIZO and Barcos are the lowest deltaE measurement (better) then the ACD followed by the Dell.

I see plenty of people in this thread saying that they are judging a monitors color with "looks good". That is kind of like defining a cars performance by it's shiny paint job, a completely useless measurement.

Thanks, good post. I'd be interested in seeing some of those tests so if anyone has links, I'd appreciate it.

Good point in the second statement.

 

[combatcolin]

Inverted Flange Manipulator.

Apple missed the boat on that one.

 

[islandman]

Some people get the ACD simply because it matches their decor or because they don't know any better.

I have a LaCie photonvision and I would have a very hard time considering anything else in the future. The ACD is a great monitor, but as many have said, it's outdated now. Dell is good, and inexpensive, but many professionals don't like Dell's quality.

 

[gekko513]

Some people get the ACD simply because it matches their decor or because they don't know any better.

I have a LaCie photonvision and I would have a very hard time considering anything else in the future. The ACD is a great monitor, but as many have said, it's outdated now. Dell is good, and inexpensive, but many professionals don't like Dell's quality.

Outdated? The ACD displays were updated in August, and I have yet to see anyone give examples of features that aren't just fluff and marketing speech in this thread. Apple makes monitor adjustment controls a job of the operating system and drivers, which really makes more sense than for the monitor to have its own clunky UI on top of the OS and driver adjustments.

 

[bousozoku]

Heres one,
Dynamic Motion Picture Overdrive (ACDs don't have this new gizmo - remember that they are quite dated designs)

and another
Brightness Stabilization Function Ensures stable brightness - necessary for the proper display of colour - with EIZO patented technology. A drift correction sensor quickly stabilizes the brightness level after startup or coming out of power saving mode. Furthermore, the monitor detects and automatically compensates for brightness changes caused by surrounding temperatures and the passage of time. (All LCDs brighness drops over time - ACDs have nothing like this to compensate)

want more????

It's the same, old stuff. Declare in the loudest voice that your product is unique.

So where is the SWOP certification? If those monitors had that, they wouldn't have to mention all these interesting technologies. Nanao/Eizo is a good monitor company and they've been around for quite a while but to say that they're better because of their marketingspeak is silly but you wouldn't be the first.

By the way, the marketing department changed the company name years ago because they felt Nanao was too difficult for foreigners to pronounce. Obviously Eizo is much easier for westerners. It's just a sample of what their marketing people do. It doesn't really matter.