Why only 2GB of RAM?

[bobr1952]

The only time I've had an issue with 2GB is when I open a virtual machine. 2GB has handled everything else I've thrown at it over the last couple of years, and as a software developer I can tell you that Eclipse is not a lightweight bit of software.

I guess a lot of people just want to make sure they don't run out. I have thought of adding a bit more but never seem to get around to it. In reality, 2G seems to be fine for me--and I usually have a lot of stuff running--like right now with a bit over half being active.

 

[iGrant]

I'd be happy with 4GB but I'd be a lot happier still if I knew that I could upgrade to 8GB by opening it up and putting a pair of 4GB SODIMMs in.

Then it would be bigger because the SODIMMS take up more room than just the solder on ones . . . I still have a no problem with 2gb, I think its plenty of memory, but I don't do anything that requires more than that.

My old laptop (Macbook Rev A.) could only have 2gb, it came with 1gb, but when I upgrade to 2gb, it ran great and that was in 2006, the Macbook died last Thursday and it was still running great with 2gb.

Heck my Mac Mini which I do all my video stuff on, EyeTV and coverting VHS to digital, only has 2gb and I never felt like I needed more . . .

-iGrant

 

[Encolpius]

I'd be happy with 4GB but I'd be a lot happier still if I knew that I could upgrade to 8GB by opening it up and putting a pair of 4GB SODIMMs in.

By putting user-servicable RAM into the Air, Apple would have to add a few mm in thickness to accommodate the RAM socket.

 

[Encolpius]

Then it would be bigger because the SODIMMS take up more room than just the solder on ones . . . I still have a no problem with 2gb, I think its plenty of memory, but I don't do anything that requires more than that.

My old laptop (Macbook Rev A.) could only have 2gb, it came with 1gb, but when I upgrade to 2gb, it ran great and that was in 2006, the Macbook died last Thursday and it was still running great with 2gb.

Heck my Mac Mini which I do all my video stuff on, EyeTV and coverting VHS to digital, only has 2gb and I never felt like I needed more . . .

-iGrant

Computer users have grown used to having to upgrade hardware every year in order to keep up with the demands of software, and with the huge drops in prices for hard drives or RAM, cost is not the issue it used to be.

I think we've reached the point of diminshing returns and will probably see an extension of the hardware lifecycle, where 2-4GB of RAM and a 2-3 GHz processor will be fine for most users for at least 2-3 years. I really don't see any massive advances in graphics technology that will require additional horsepower. Where harware improvements need to be made are in the areas of battery life and connectivity.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

By putting user-servicable RAM into the Air, Apple would have to add a few mm in thickness to accommodate the RAM socket.

It depends where they would put the sockets. The hard drive isn't soldered. It also depends what kind of sockets they used. The thickness of the sockets with SODIMMs in then could easily be done in under the thickness of the hard drive. The issue is whether they'd still be able to fit it in when they redesign stuff.

I think if they can find a way to fit sockets in then they will. Since they'd count it as non-user servicable parts (as in Mac Minis) then they could make a chunk of cash off people willing to pay for 4GB/8GB CTO options. It would also mean that they could easily do a subtle boost to the MBA line up six months later by upping the standard RAM from 2 to 4GB and putting larger hard drives in without any need for new logic boards.

 

[stoconnell]

I certainly wouldn't object to an extra mm or five if they could figure out how to do the following (esp. since the ship has already sailed on being the thinnest laptop in the world .. whatever):

1) move the vents
2) add a gigE port
3) dimm slots would be a bonus
4) maybe more battery capacity

 

[Gordon Werner]

There's only space on the MBA logic board right now for 8 memory chips.

2GB DDR3 SODIMMs with 8 memory chips (4 on each side) cost $59.99.
4GB DDR3 SODIMMs with 8 memory chips (4 on each side) cost $299.99.
.

I doubt that Apple would be paying those prices at the rate they are purchasing RAM from the OEMs ...

I guess I should have posted that I was surprised that Apple didn't even offer 4GB as a BTO option for the Air.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I doubt that Apple would be paying those prices at the rate they are purchasing RAM from the OEMs ...

I guess I should have posted that I was surprised that Apple didn't even offer 4GB as a BTO option for the Air.

Yeah I had a look at pictures of MBA logic boards after I posted. Apple is using 16 memory chips instead of the 8 I originally thought. As such they don't need to use the expensive higher density RAM found in 4GB SODIMMs. If they only had the space for 8 memory chips then those prices would have been pretty accurate - especially in terms of end user price bumps.

As it stands right now though, it would cost Apple about $20 at a guess to sell MacBook Airs with 4GB instead of 2GB using the same memory chips found in current 2GB SODIMMs.

 

[coast1ja]

Yes, the chips themselves may only cost $20 right now, but back when the MBAs motherboard was designed they were much more expensive. You also have to figure in the development cost of an entirely new motherboard to accommodate the new chips (they would require different voltage circuits). Add to that the cost to build four different versions of the board instead of just two (with different CPUs, which are also soldered in) and I would bet the actual additional cost to apple for each unit would be well over $100, meaning the CTO option would be around $200 to make a decent margin. Consumers are not willing to $100 per gb of ram. I'm sure apple has looked into this and found it to be infeasible just as I have.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Yes, the chips themselves may only cost $20 right now, but back when the MBAs motherboard was designed they were much more expensive. You also have to figure in the development cost of an entirely new motherboard to accommodate the new chips (they would require different voltage circuits). Add to that the cost to build four different versions of the board instead of just two (with different CPUs, which are also soldered in) and I would bet the actual additional cost to apple for each unit would be well over $100, meaning the CTO option would be around $200 to make a decent margin. Consumers are not willing to $100 per gb of ram. I'm sure apple has looked into this and found it to be infeasible just as I have.

They could easily have done it a year ago when they redesigned the logic boards for the Rev B. 2GB SODIMMs haven't dropped in price that much over the last year. There will be pin compatible chips that Apple could put on instead of the ones right now. They already solder in two different pin compatible CPUs after all.

 

[Encolpius]

They could easily have done it a year ago when they redesigned the logic boards for the Rev B. 2GB SODIMMs haven't dropped in price that much over the last year. There will be pin compatible chips that Apple could put on instead of the ones right now. They already solder in two different pin compatible CPUs after all.

Sure, but that only requires them to manage two different pieces of inventory. If they were to offer 4GB as a BTO option, they've have to manage four different pieces of inventory and the necessary supply chain; CPU "A" with 2 or 4 GB of RAM and CPU "B" with 2 or 4 GB of RAM. Limiting the options helps to keep costs down.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Sure, but that only requires them to manage two different pieces of inventory. If they were to offer 4GB as a BTO option, they've have to manage four different pieces of inventory and the necessary supply chain; CPU "A" with 2 or 4 GB of RAM and CPU "B" with 2 or 4 GB of RAM. Limiting the options helps to keep costs down.

I don't really think that's all too much of a problem. They already manage what, eight MacBook Pros when you factor in all of the CPU options. It would be no different than when they've sold MacBook Pros or Powerbooks with the option to double the VRAM as a CTO.

 

[Encolpius]

I don't really think that's all too much of a problem. They already manage what, eight MacBook Pros when you factor in all of the CPU options. It would be no different than when they've sold MacBook Pros or Powerbooks with the option to double the VRAM as a CTO.

Perhaps the Pro sells larger quantities to a more varied market, which justifies the BTO options.

The last thing Apple needs to do is end up like Dell, which each model available in infinitely configurable variations. It'll definitely start eroding their margin and eliminate the clear definition between product lines.

 

[gri]

Yes, the chips themselves may only cost $20 right now, but back when the MBAs motherboard was designed they were much more expensive. You also have to figure in the development cost of an entirely new motherboard to accommodate the new chips (they would require different voltage circuits). Add to that the cost to build four different versions of the board instead of just two (with different CPUs, which are also soldered in) and I would bet the actual additional cost to apple for each unit would be well over $100, meaning the CTO option would be around $200 to make a decent margin. Consumers are not willing to $100 per gb of ram. I'm sure apple has looked into this and found it to be infeasible just as I have.

I would happily pay $200 per extra ram beyond 2 GB...

 

[iGrant]

I would happily pay $200 per extra ram beyond 2 GB...

Hahhah I don't think I would, I have never had a problem with just 2gb in a laptop . . . ran 2gb in my Macbook for over 3 years with no issues, and my Macbook Air which I got yesterday seems perfect with just 2gb . . .

However all I do is listen to music and read websites and participate in forums, so for other its probably different.

-iGrant

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Hahhah I don't think I would, I have never had a problem with just 2gb in a laptop . . . ran 2gb in my Macbook for over 3 years with no issues, and my Macbook Air which I got yesterday seems perfect with just 2gb . . .

However all I do is listen to music and read websites and participate in forums, so for other its probably different.

-iGrant

2GB is fine for my fiancée. That's all she had in her White MacBook so she won't notice any negative impact with her new MacBook Air.

If I were buying a laptop for myself, however, I'd need 2GB. She may just do Safari/Word/iTunes type stuff but I often have to manipulate large data arrays in Matlab and code runs that can eat up RAM. Then again, that's why I have a 15" MacBook Pro. Horses for courses after all.

However, I think it's inevitable that the next MBA will have 4GB of RAM. By the time it is released, the cost to go from 2GB to 4GB will be negligable, as is evident by the fact that all bar 3 machines across the Apple Store excluding the Air still only have 2GB (MacBook, entry level MacBook Pro, entry level Mac Mini).

 

[iGrant]

2GB is fine for my fiancée. That's all she had in her White MacBook so she won't notice any negative impact with her new MacBook Air.

If I were buying a laptop for myself, however, I'd need 2GB. She may just do Safari/Word/iTunes type stuff but I often have to manipulate large data arrays in Matlab and code runs that can eat up RAM. Then again, that's why I have a 15" MacBook Pro. Horses for courses after all.

However, I think it's inevitable that the next MBA will have 4GB of RAM. By the time it is released, the cost to go from 2GB to 4GB will be negligable, as is evident by the fact that all bar 3 machines across the Apple Store excluding the Air still only have 2GB (MacBook, entry level MacBook Pro, entry level Mac Mini).

The most complicated thing I do on my Macbook Air is working on my Atari 2600 game that I'm programming, which is just Text Wrangler and the command-line compiler .

-iGrant

 

[peterho]

Got my rev.c Air last week for daily word/powerpoint/browsing purpose. 2GB+SSD is perfect. Applications open up way faster than my Macbook Pro from late last year. And it's super light, so I don't have to carry a brick with me everyday to school.

I don't think Air is designed for hardcore computer geeks. It's for people who appreciate the elegant design and the portability. I love it!

 

[coast1ja]

Got my rev.c Air last week for daily word/powerpoint/browsing purpose. 2GB+SSD is perfect. Applications open up way faster than my Macbook Pro from late last year. And it's super light, so I don't have to carry a brick with me everyday to school.

I don't think Air is designed for hardcore computer geeks. It's for people who appreciate the elegant design and the portability. I love it!

perfectly stated... if you want power, get a macbook pro. if you want portability, get a MBA. If you want both, get the top of the line MBA with a Runcore SSD.

An MBA with the power of a MBP would have to be priced so highly that it wouldn't compete with the MBP, so it's not just a space issue in the MBA, it's also a marketing issue.

 

[coast1ja]

I certainly wouldn't object to an extra mm or five if they could figure out how to do the following (esp. since the ship has already sailed on being the thinnest laptop in the world .. whatever):

1) move the vents
2) add a gigE port
3) dimm slots would be a bonus
4) maybe more battery capacity

1) move the vents... where to?... above the keyboard? that wouldn't look good.
2) add a gigE port... the ethernet port would be thicker than the whole MBA!
3) dimm slots would be a bonus... no way this will happen, it would take up too much real estate on the motherboard to put two side by side, and it would be too thick to stack them.
4) maybe more battery capacity... now this one will happen. With the new lithium polymer batteries, a battery of the same size as in the current MBA would probably be able to give us 7-10 hours instead of 4-5.

Yes, technology is getting better and smaller, but SODIMMs have always been the same size... which was too big for the current MBA, and will still be too big for the next one. This is the same reason 2.5" hard drives will not be offered in the next MBA either... yes they are better, faster, and cheaper, but they are still the same form factor.

 

[iGrant]

Got my rev.c Air last week for daily word/powerpoint/browsing purpose. 2GB+SSD is perfect. Applications open up way faster than my Macbook Pro from late last year. And it's super light, so I don't have to carry a brick with me everyday to school.

I don't think Air is designed for hardcore computer geeks. It's for people who appreciate the elegant design and the portability. I love it!

HEY . . . I disagree . . . I consider my self a hardcore geek . . . I just use the Air to remote to my more power Mac Mini

-iGrant

 

[gri]

Hahhah I don't think I would, I have never had a problem with just 2gb in a laptop . . . ran 2gb in my Macbook for over 3 years with no issues, and my Macbook Air which I got yesterday seems perfect with just 2gb . . .

However all I do is listen to music and read websites and participate in forums, so for other its probably different.

-iGrant

The problem is that my 6 year old PowerBook has also 2G of RAM and so does my 3 year old MBP - and I don't want to invest into something which has not improved in that compartment within 6 years while ALL the other ones have. We can have a MBP with up to 8 G of RAM, so limited to 2 is not an option for me currently.

 

[iGrant]

The problem is that my 6 year old PowerBook has also 2G of RAM and so does my 3 year old MBP - and I don't want to invest into something which has not improved in that compartment within 6 years while ALL the other ones have. We can have a MBP with up to 8 G of RAM, so limited to 2 is not an option for me currently.

I'm sorry but comparing the Macbook Air to the PowerBook and Macbook Pro is like comparing the Intel Mac Mini to Power Mac Dual G5 and a 2007 Mac Pro . . . its two entirely different computers . . .

Powerbook and Macbook Pro are designed for power users that need to do intensive video and image editing, etc on their laptop, as such if they were to buy a desktop they would get an iMac at the least or more preferable a Mac Pro.

My dad is a professional photographer and he has a Mac Pro, and is looking at getting a Macbook Pro 17 so he can be more mobile.

For me I do basic analog to digital video conversion so the Intel Mac Mini with the EyeTV suite is more than enough for me. I never do that on my laptop, I just watch the content on my laptop so the Macbook Air is a great choice for me because it has what I wanted most, light weight, quiet, and long battery life.

I thought about getting a Mac Pro but that would be some serious overkill for what I do . . . it would be more than just a little ridiculous.

I'm not saying I don't see your point, but I can understand not waiting to get something with memory that can't be expanded, I just don't think you can compare a pro series laptop designed for power and performance to laptop designed for light weight, and long battery life . . .

-iGrant

 

[ntrigue]

They will put 4GB in the high-end MBA.
They will NOT make the MBA thicker.
They will NOT make it user-serviceable.
It does need 4GB RAM as a virtual machine.

 

[stoconnell]

1) move the vents... where to?... above the keyboard? that wouldn't look good.
2) add a gigE port... the ethernet port would be thicker than the whole MBA!
3) dimm slots would be a bonus... no way this will happen, it would take up too much real estate on the motherboard to put two side by side, and it would be too thick to stack them.
4) maybe more battery capacity... now this one will happen. With the new lithium polymer batteries, a battery of the same size as in the current MBA would probably be able to give us 7-10 hours instead of 4-5.

Yes, technology is getting better and smaller, but SODIMMs have always been the same size... which was too big for the current MBA, and will still be too big for the next one. This is the same reason 2.5" hard drives will not be offered in the next MBA either... yes they are better, faster, and cheaper, but they are still the same form factor.

I think if the unit were made slightly thicker:

1) Apple could place the vents more on the rear of the unit or find a way to sneak it into the hinge area. I am not saying it would be easy. I just find the current placement an annoyance (you know, a boy can dream).
2) Apple could do a flip down or popout RJ-45