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ppc_michael

Guest
Original poster
Apr 26, 2005
1,498
2
Los Angeles, CA
I see a lot of artists/bands releasing their albums on vinyl. For example, Radiohead released In Rainbows on vinyl at the beginning of this year.

I don't understand why? That was almost certainly digitally recorded and mastered, so doesn't it completely defeat the purpose to put it on an analog format? The music is not going to un-sample itself, you know?

Am I missing something, or is it just for people that want to be music snobs but don't actually understand the difference between analog and digital?
 

j-spec

macrumors newbie
Aug 5, 2008
10
0
I don't know about rock music, but with hip hop, trance, house, etc. almost all new releases come out on vinyl for DJ's.

For DJ's vinyl is still very much alive and what most hip hop DJ's swear by for true scratching and mixing.

CDJ's just don't "feel" the same as vinyl, even though they have many, many superior qualities.
 
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atszyman

macrumors 68020
Sep 16, 2003
2,437
16
The Dallas 'burbs
I don't understand why? That was almost certainly digitally recorded and mastered, so doesn't it completely defeat the purpose to put it on an analog format? The music is not going to un-sample itself, you know?

When it's recorded/mastered the oversampling is obscene. What gets released on CD or even DVD audio is still missing information that is there on the mastered version. Vinyl would contain all of that information, but could also introduce a tiny bit of noise depending on how good the digial to analog conversion is, of course your home stereo has to convert the digital recording to analog as well so I'd be that the noise introduced in creating the vinyl would be negligible in comparison to the noise introduced by the CD/DVD in your home stereo.

I agree that while the biggest reason to release vinyl would be for DJs, the fact that it's recorded and mastered digitally does not mean you lose anything in going to the analog format since the mastered copy is going to contain much more audio information than the highest quality digital copy available in the store. It's always possible to reduce the content to fit a given format, but very difficult (if not impossible) to regain content that was cut or never there to begin with. Analog formats would retain the cut audio content but I would bet money that most people who claim to be able to hear a difference between the analog format and the highest quality digital version are lying, and if they're not lying it would require one hell of a stereo to be able to keep the audio clean enough to tell the difference.
 
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zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,398
10
toronto
vinyl is the only durable storage medium. magnetics and optical degrade over time.

the Library of Congress has done tons of research and invested tons of money in figuring out how they're going to preserve music in the digital age. music before that, printed to vinyl, isn't nearly such a concern.
 
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bsheridan

macrumors 6502
Jan 11, 2008
432
3
Speaking as a lover of music, born in 87 so grew up in the cd and mp3 age. I started collecting vinyls (almost 99% is of 7" records) after holding my first vinyl. Reading the sleeve notes and appreciating the packaging while the record spins is a different experience than listening to a song through your headphones on an ipod.

So I purchase vinyl for a different experience to listening to music.

b.
 
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Sesshi

macrumors G3
Jun 3, 2006
8,113
1
One Nation Under Gordon
vinyl is the only durable storage medium. magnetics and optical degrade over time.

the Library of Congress has done tons of research and invested tons of money in figuring out how they're going to preserve music in the digital age. music before that, printed to vinyl, isn't nearly such a concern.

Not necessarily true. It depends on the stability of the record material, which is debatably not far from high quality optical media in terms of effectively readable shelf life. Vinyl archiving is a problem: Not just maintaining playable samples, but PVC can degrade over time, especially given the variability of the formulation of the plastic. The increasing use of contactless laser turntables by many archival organisations is testament to this. True, the increased complexity of optical media can make it more prone to manufacturing defects and especially corrosion of the metal substrate, but PVC itself is not immune to time.

I think I've written before of the physical and emotional aspects of records. I have a couple of record players which I very rarely use - especially now that I've transcribed a very large percentage of my vinyl collection to digital, with one of those players dedicated to transcribing - but as bsheridan says there is a sense of occasion to spinning a record, especially if your record player is also an occasion-creating device.
 
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zimv20

macrumors 601
Jul 18, 2002
4,398
10
toronto
it's certainly a great point about how holding a vinyl record, and sitting down and listening to the entire album of songs, is an event.

of, for me, was, since i haven't bought a record in decades.

i think a lot of that majesty is lost. i was 14 when The Wall came out, and being 14, listening to that record on a loud tube system, looking over all those great materials, was unparalleled.

do any 14 year olds today have that kind of experience?
 
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kugino

macrumors 65816
Jul 10, 2003
1,119
109
part of it is for the experience...but many also find the music to be much richer, warmer, and with greater dynamic range. while not true for every recording, some of the vinyl i have sounds far better than their lossless digital counterpart. keep in mind that today's turntables and phono stages are much improved over those from 10, 20 years ago, too.
 
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nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
2
... especially if your record player is also an occasion-creating device.
Do mean something like this?

media.nl
 
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Podgie

macrumors newbie
Aug 12, 2008
25
0
eh, was thinking of being a vinyl DJ when I started, but it is too expensive in the long run! and once you have scratched it.... then you need a new one. Digital all the way :p Love my American Audio CDI 300's.
 
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j-spec

macrumors newbie
Aug 5, 2008
10
0
eh, was thinking of being a vinyl DJ when I started, but it is too expensive in the long run! and once you have scratched it.... then you need a new one. Digital all the way :p Love my American Audio CDI 300's.

dude, i was in the same boat as you...i really didnt want to spend 20 bucks each time I wanted a new track.

I still picked up a pair of Technic 1200's cause I wanted to learn on vinyl, and I've ordered Torq now...mp3 convenience + vinyl control

DVS for the win!!!
 
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Sesshi

macrumors G3
Jun 3, 2006
8,113
1
One Nation Under Gordon
it's certainly a great point about how holding a vinyl record, and sitting down and listening to the entire album of songs, is an event.

of, for me, was, since i haven't bought a record in decades.

i think a lot of that majesty is lost. i was 14 when The Wall came out, and being 14, listening to that record on a loud tube system, looking over all those great materials, was unparalleled.

do any 14 year olds today have that kind of experience?

People always want something different because they want to show they're not 'the usual'. 14 year olds are sophisticated enough these days to make that choice, and they're also discovering themselves and needy of some definition of, or complexity in, their identity. Take this whole Apple thing - better in limited and mainly psychological ways, much less practical in everyday use but you feel you're different, and therefore it is better for many.

:p

Do mean something like this?

Uhh... Not so sure about that one. I have a Mitchell Orbe. My transcribing deck is the ubiquitous LP12.
 
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nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
2
Uhh... Not so sure about that one. I have a Mitchell Orbe. My transcribing deck is the ubiquitous LP12.
Audio, especially DIY, is one of my hobbies! :D
Unfortunately, I don't own enough vinyl to warrant a turntable. :( So I've never listened to any in ages.

I only listed the Ear Disk Master due to its visual character. Especially the 2nd tonearm. ;) Your Michell Orbe is also quite attractive. :)
 
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Sesshi

macrumors G3
Jun 3, 2006
8,113
1
One Nation Under Gordon
I spent a long (and occasionally frustrating) time a while back recording all my records that I wanted to keep to 24/96 FLAC using the LP12. Some of the audiophile digital outlets are already offering 24/48 and 24/96 downloads in FLAC and WMA. I think as (or if) these catch on, especially with the more audiophile-friendly digital players now coming onto the market and as really workable virtual DJ systems reduce in price-of-entry, record playback will become almost purely an emotional exercise - as it essentially is for me these days.
 
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nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,719
2
I spent a long (and occasionally frustrating) time a while back recording all my records that I wanted to keep to 24/96 FLAC using the LP12. Some of the audiophile digital outlets are already offering 24/48 and 24/96 downloads in FLAC and WMA. I think as (or if) these catch on, especially with the more audiophile-friendly digital players now coming onto the market and as really workable virtual DJ systems reduce in price-of-entry, record playback will become almost purely an emotional exercise - as it essentially is for me these days.
Hopefully, this may happen. I'd really like to see a re-emergence of audiophile quality source material. Whether it be physical, or download types. :)

File formats have seemingly given way to convenience. Nor can I forget the lack of adoption of SACD or DVD-A. :(
Time to ditch the old Red Book CD standard. :p
 
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jv17

macrumors member
Aug 7, 2008
57
0
my friend is using that already and he told me some postive feedbacks about it..
 
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xparaparafreakx

macrumors 65816
Jul 29, 2005
1,273
1
eh, was thinking of being a vinyl DJ when I started, but it is too expensive in the long run! and once you have scratched it.... then you need a new one. Digital all the way :p Love my American Audio CDI 300's.

Traktor Scratch all the way.
 
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hakukani

macrumors regular
Feb 9, 2008
152
7
Hawaii
Hey you DJs:

If you want to be a real performer, ditch the vinyl and learn to make music the old fashioned way, with a musical instrument.
 
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OutThere

macrumors 603
Dec 19, 2002
5,730
3
NYC
I think I've written before of the physical and emotional aspects of records. I have a couple of record players which I very rarely use - especially now that I've transcribed a very large percentage of my vinyl collection to digital, with one of those players dedicated to transcribing - but as bsheridan says there is a sense of occasion to spinning a record, especially if your record player is also an occasion-creating device.

My friends and I are 18-22 years old...born and bred on CDs and Mp3's (Napster came out when I was in 6th grade, right about when I started getting interested in music and finding bands I liked). I have a very large iTunes library, either ripped from CDs or purchased on iTunes and a nice receiver hooked up to big floor standing speakers—great for parties and having friends over, as I can just throw on a playlist and forget about it.

Last winter my school's radio station gave away 10,000 vinyl records...my friends and I picked some up thinking we'd decorate our dorm suite with them. When we were searching through the records I remembered that I had a turntable at home, I had my parents send it up to me and my friends and I started listening to the records.

What you say about a record player being an 'occasion creating device' is absolutely true. Instead of the music being a background filler while we partied, it jumped to center stage. It felt like we'd jumped back in time 30 years. We found a used record store nearby and picked up a big pile of classic rock albums for a couple bucks a piece and started getting together to listen to our records much more often...sitting around the dorm with the lights on low, beers in hand, speakers crackling. Even though the experience didn't bring back memories of the old days for us there was something magical about it...I look forward to getting back to school and chilling out with a few good friends and the vinyl spinning. :D
 
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