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Why should Apple keep up with Intel's roadmap?
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Umm pardon me for sounding sensible, but who gives a crap as long as the computer runs OSX efficiently? Not most people, trust me. 
JimmyB248 said:
Did you read the thread?
- Apple has not lowered prices.
- Apple has not implemented the T2700 2.33 GHz Core Duo.
- Merom is priced the same as Yonah.
A lot of us are waiting because this is pure, unmitigated profit on Apple's part. Some of us make a purchase every five or six years. Wouldn't you wait?
You're right, we don't know Apple's plan. But we do know Intel's plan, which is to rapidly phase out Core Duo over the coming months.
generik said:
Not sure, I saw it in his bag (it was huge).
I don't think Apple is sticking with Core 1 solely to demoralize and frustrate their user base. If people just took a moment and stopped being such spoiled brats they would see it from Apple's perspective.
Apple probably anticipated much larger demand for their new Intel products, ordered too many Core 1's and locked in at a lower price. Of course, Apple isn't used to having EVERYONE know about their future processor roadmap. Since this is the case with Intel, a vast majority of potential buyers (myself included) have decided to put off their purchases until the Core 2 revision. This isn't helping Apple at all! Not only are they late to market with a pin-to-pin replacement chip, but they're not selling through their supply of Core 1's.
If you guys want Core 2's sooner, you should start buying Core 1's!
Apple probably anticipated much larger demand for their new Intel products, ordered too many Core 1's and locked in at a lower price. Of course, Apple isn't used to having EVERYONE know about their future processor roadmap. Since this is the case with Intel, a vast majority of potential buyers (myself included) have decided to put off their purchases until the Core 2 revision. This isn't helping Apple at all! Not only are they late to market with a pin-to-pin replacement chip, but they're not selling through their supply of Core 1's.
If you guys want Core 2's sooner, you should start buying Core 1's!
JimmyB248 said:
The reason is speed. Most of the work I do involves hundreds of hours of rendering. The meroms are 10 to 15% faster, on a 100 hour render that would save 15 hours, quite a bit of time. Time is money. Does that answer your question.
Apple has always been very picky about thermal standards in their laptops.
The extra thin design of the MBP makes that even more of an issue.
If Apple does not release a Merom based MBP over the next month, then my guess is that Apple is not satisfied with the Merom's heat specifications.
They may be holding off for Santa Rosa, but the smart money will go for
the Penryns next year.
If you are really concerned with extensive use for rendering, then you would be much better off with an iMac or Mac Pro.
We've been over this countless times.
A Pro machine for heavy use and a lightweight portable for your true portable needs really is the best solution.
The extra thin design of the MBP makes that even more of an issue.
If Apple does not release a Merom based MBP over the next month, then my guess is that Apple is not satisfied with the Merom's heat specifications.
They may be holding off for Santa Rosa, but the smart money will go for
the Penryns next year.
If you are really concerned with extensive use for rendering, then you would be much better off with an iMac or Mac Pro.
We've been over this countless times.
A Pro machine for heavy use and a lightweight portable for your true portable needs really is the best solution.
Frankly, waiting till Santa Rosa to upgrade to Merom isn't wise. That will be about half the life of the chip before they switch over; Penryn is expected in 2007. So Apple will wait ~7 months of Merom to then keep it around for roughly 5 months before Penryn launches? Or does that mean we will have 7 months of Merom after Penryn is released? Or no Merom, no Santa Rosa and another year+ of Yonah? The only people who will buy into that are the ultra-Mac faithful. The Intel switch seems to have given Apple a shot in the arm (especially with the NON-Mac faithful), but dithering over updates could kill the momentum.
I think most people on these boards aren't upset that Apple hasn't released Merom, just that they have no idea when (or scarily IF) they will. Apple can take the whole secrecy thing too far. They announced the Macbook Pro and didn't deliver it for a month; you couldn't get the top spec graphics card in the Mac Pro for awhile either. It would be OK to announce and ship later, it has worked in the past for Apple.
PS - Some people here really need to give more credit to the average computer buyer. They know that Core 2 Duo is better than Core Duo. Simple, it's in the name (2>1).
I think most people on these boards aren't upset that Apple hasn't released Merom, just that they have no idea when (or scarily IF) they will. Apple can take the whole secrecy thing too far. They announced the Macbook Pro and didn't deliver it for a month; you couldn't get the top spec graphics card in the Mac Pro for awhile either. It would be OK to announce and ship later, it has worked in the past for Apple.
PS - Some people here really need to give more credit to the average computer buyer. They know that Core 2 Duo is better than Core Duo. Simple, it's in the name (2>1).
Try to keep in mind that a MacBook or a MBP is more than enough computer for the "average" user.
In fact,
millions of users are perfectly content using their Apple products every day.
We are the exception. We are not normal!
In fact,
millions of users are perfectly content using their Apple products every day.
We are the exception. We are not normal!
FFTT said:Try to keep in mind that a MacBook or a MBP is more than enough computer for the "average" user.
In fact,
millions of users are perfectly content using their Apple products every day.
We are the exception. We are not normal!
A Kia is enough car for 90% of people and millions are content driving Kias everyday. Do 90% of people WANT to own Kias? No, because people want more than "enough." Apple is actually based on wanting more than enough; it is a luxury/high end brand, not a bargain brand. (Plus, my guess is the average Mac user probably does more than average computer user. A higher quotient of people using photo and video editing, e.g.)
leekohler said:Umm pardon me for sounding sensible, but who gives a crap as long as the computer runs OSX efficiently? Not most people, trust me.
### So you would pay the prices of today's hardware for hardware that's two years old? I mean, it would run OS X "efficiently"..would it not? Glad you feel that way cuz I have a PB G4 1.67 17" with 2 gigs of RAM that I will sell you for the bargain price of $2,700. Please..cash only. Just being a smartass to make a point. Another analogy...would you buy the 2006 car for the same price as the 2007 model? Didn't think so.
jaduffy108 said:
Here is what you are missing. There is nothing new yet.
If you want an Apple notebook, you have the choice between a CD MB, or CD MBP.
There is no '2007' model also know as a Merom upgrade. So yes, you pay full price for current tech.
If you are not bound to Apple products, then by all means you can use the '2006 vs. 2007' analogy. Because it would make sense.
But for someone who only uses Apple computers, that doesnt work.
steebu said:
Exactly.. these spoiled brats should stop thinking of their own needs as a purchaser, and instead should focus the needs of the multi-billion dollar company that wants their money.
Apple is in the very enviable position of having a large customer base that want to buy Apple products over all others; that will delay, or even refuse purchases from other companies so they can buy from Apple.
When Apple lag behind other companies in offering new technologies, they're leaning heavily on this customer loyalty. Apple isn't doing customers a favour by releasing new technologies, but these customers are doing Apple a favour by waiting for Apple to upgrade.
whooleytoo said:Exactly.. these spoiled brats should stop thinking of their own needs as a purchaser, and instead should focus the needs of the multi-billion dollar company that wants their money.
Apple is in the very enviable position of having a large customer base that want to buy Apple products over all others; that will delay, or even refuse purchases from other companies so they can buy from Apple.
When Apple lag behind other companies in offering new technologies, they're leaning heavily on this customer loyalty. Apple isn't doing customers a favour by releasing new technologies, but these customers are doing Apple a favour by waiting for Apple to upgrade.
You all still need to acknowlege that everyone buying out there isn't like you. They don't know what processor is coming and they probably don't care. They need the computer so they buy it.
Which is exactly what you all should be doing. Technology keeps moving folks. Core Duo --> Core 2 Duo ---> Santa Rosa chipset --> Penryn etc.
I will laugh when Apple releases its numbers for this quarter. Because I am sure you all will think you put a dent in Apples sales with your little rebellion, but I bet you will find out just how meaningsless you really are to Apples sales.
I hope that will end the whining, but I am sure it won't.
see this is where it doesn't make sense to me... why do you need a laptop again? mostly for the "road"faustfire said:The reason is speed. Most of the work I do involves hundreds of hours of rendering. The meroms are 10 to 15% faster, on a 100 hour render that would save 15 hours, quite a bit of time. Time is money. Does that answer your question.
if you are gonna have many many many of these 100 hr rendering to do, are you really gonna do this on the road?
wouldn't a mac pro be much much much faster for something that'd take 100hr on a macbook pro, wouldn't mac pro take like.. oh i dont know, 50 hrs?
and you just KNOW that merom would take 85 while yonah takes 100?
Frogurt said:
are you saying the MBP with yonah is like Kia in all the cars?
MBP with yonah (compare to the future, if there will, MBP with merom), is probably like Porsche 911 GT3 ($106,000) instead of the Porsche 911 Turbo ($123,000)... and to average driver, i think they'd think those two are much the same (except that MBP merom is not gonna be near as distant from yonah as turbo from GT3)
average Mac user does NOT do more than average computer user.
perhaps a higher quotient of people using photo and video editing, but how many macs do you know that's used in, say, manufacture plants, R&D facilities, etc, etc...
last week my company was looking to get a high power microscope, we had olympus comes in to do demo, none of the software works on a OS X... list goes on
just because mac user do more photo and video editing (stuff that has more to do with graphics), does not mean mac user are "more" experienced computer users. if anything, average mac user has less experience with troubleshooting (thanks to the stability of OS X)
Frogurt said:
first of all, you are making the assumption that apple would release Pennryn as soon as releases (hence the 5 months) but we all know how not true that will be, provided the way apple released or there lack of, merom.
PS - if you pull 50 people from the street of St. Louis (which i consider as average in the US, not the highest, not the lowest).. and ask them what's the latest intel chip in laptop, i bet 20% would say something like "potato chips?" and only like 10% would come even close to core, or duo
bearbo said:
Nowadays, probably more people use laptops as portable desktops, rarely using them on the move.
suneohair said:
I think you need to acknowledge that Merom isn't coming, it is already here. Merom iMacs were released 30 days ago. You also need to acknowledge that you are in the minority when it comes to computer buying. Most consumers are more like those wanting Merom, they compare brands and don't consider Apple the only brand to buy. In fact, most use Windows (over 90%). Having out of date hardware does not impress people making an educated purchase.
Oh and hey, maybe I shouldn't vote, because one vote is meaningless too.
Meh, I doubt if you pull 50 people off the street that even 15 of them have bought a laptop within the past 2 years, especially off the street in St. Louisbearbo said:
. Plus, even if every single one of them had bought a laptop in the past 2 years, maybe 1 or 2 of them would've boughten an Apple. To the "average" consumer, if they see one company with a faster chip, and the other not having the faster chip (even though they charge a higher premium for older hardware, the "average person off the street" would say take a hike to the second company). Apple users are not people off the street, and they won't be converting anymore off the street by lagging in the hardware department while still charging the same prices for older hardware.
suneohair said:
apple was known for selling slower machines in the past. now that they've moved to intel/x86, they've achieved mostly performance parity, except for their laptops.
Veritas&Equitas said:Meh, I doubt if you pull 50 people off the street that even 15 of them have bought a laptop within the past 2 years, especially off the street in St. Louis
apple has been converting people based on os x, despite years of performance inferior hardware, which is itself rather impressive.
suneohair said:
Personally, I'm fine - I have a Core Duo machine and am blissfully happy with it. But I can certainly understand people being upset that Apple machines are starting to fall behind in performance terms again. And I, as a Mac user and developer, would prefer to see Apple on the cutting edge rather than lagging behind, particularly as an indication of their future intentions.
For too long, Apple lagged behind with the PowerPC family while the Intel/AMD chips raced ahead - which, for one thing, help decimate the Mac gaming industry. As if the Mac market wasn't small enough, having for so long only one range, the "pro" Power Macs, which were adequate gaming machines has virtually killed the Mac as a gaming platform.
Many people were thrilled with the news that Apple was switching to Intel, given that now that direct performance comparisons are possible, it would make it more difficult for Apple to lag behind other PC makers. While they have done a superb job with the Mac Pro (price & performance wise), the delay in adopting a new chip line in the laptops is a little worrying.
No, I was counntering the point that people should buy by what is "enough." If you look at need, no one needs a 911, they just want a 911. And I actually said that Apple is a luxury brand, like Porsche.bearbo said:
True, but Apple doesn't really compete in industrial settings. And such settings don't constitute a majority of users. More are in homes and offices where they are used for word processing, spreadsheets, internet, music and e-mail. I didn't say that Mac users are more experienced, just that I guessed they would use more computing power.bearbo said:
True, I was making that assumption in those numbers. Apple could just as easily delay Penryn for an extended period of time and always be on a cycle of half a step behind. But do you think that is a good business model?bearbo said:
Again, probably true. But no one is buying a computer while standing in the street. They are at their computer looking at websites or standing in a store looking at signs. Where the information is presented.bearbo said:
lolVeritas&Equitas said:Meh, I doubt if you pull 50 people off the street that even 15 of them have bought a laptop within the past 2 years, especially off the street in St. Louis
i'm just arguing that average people won't care about merom
you are right, average people don't buy apple, but among the ppl who buy apple (and majority of "average" apple user, for some reason hate any other PC, would only buy apple), most of them dont know about merom... last yr there was this girl worked in my lab, and i bought a powermac G5, she asked me if that has the intel chip in there... she uses a powerbook 12"... that's the kind of average mac user