Why the 12-core is only 2,7GHz? Huge disappointment!

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by ApplesAOranges, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. ApplesAOranges macrumors 6502

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    Jan 7, 2011
    #1
    This is a huge disappointment! Even my old mid 2010 12-core is 2,93GHz. And the mid 2012 was upgraded to 3,06GHz.

    Is this some scheme by Apple, that later on they will just raise the clock speed and sell new machines? Even when they are exactly the same machines, except they just raised the clock speed and sell it as "new".

    If I buy the 2,7GHz 12-core now, I´m stuck with that clock speed. :mad: If I want a faster clock speed, I will have to give in to Apple´s dirty little scheme and buy a whole new machine, since the new Mac Pros are unupgradeable. :mad:
     
  2. ssls6 macrumors 6502a

    ssls6

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    #2
    It probably has more to do with intel and the ability to yield all 12 cores on a single die.

    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-2697 v2.html

    When intel improves so will the speed.
     
  3. theSeb macrumors 604

    theSeb

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    #3
    Is this a serious thread? Please tell me it is not.
     
  4. ApplesAOranges thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Also the 4-6-8-cores won´t be any faster than my current machine, so this is really disappointing.

    The new 12-core clock speed is slower than my current machine and it´s only marginally faster according to the benchmarks, so Apple´s hype at the keynote was just that, hype... or better yet lies and BS!

    Really wanted a way faster machine after 3 YEARS, but won´t get one! :mad:
     
  5. violst macrumors 6502

    violst

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    Jun 14, 2012
    #5
    I think it has to do with the fact that you are putting 12 cores all on one die and at a higher clock speed the price would start to be much more of a factor.

    Right now your system has two 6 cores plus the 12 core 3.06 and 2.93 were apples Hi-end systems and were also very expensive and very capable systems. So you may not have a need to upgraded based on that.

    If I had one of those 12-core systems I may not feel compelled to upgrade to the nMP either.
     
  6. Gav Mack macrumors 68020

    Gav Mack

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    #6
    They have to underclock the 12 core and also reduce the turbo boost overclock for a single core.

    If you're not doing any serious multithreaded work the lesser cores may be a better option with the higher base and turbo boost clock. Probably intel's next gen xeon architecture next year will allow higher speeds.
     
  7. Macshroomer macrumors 65816

    Macshroomer

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    #7
    Yeah, may as well just toss your "Old" machine in the trash, nothing is right in the live-and-die-by-my-computer world.
     
  8. iBug2 macrumors 68040

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    Jun 12, 2005
    #8
    Probably the one after the next one will give higher speeds. Haswell was more of a energy saving update which won't mean much for Mac Pro. Broadwell will boost speeds though.
     
  9. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #9

    That part is old news. I mentioned the cost to x86 performance ratio earlier on. As for the 12 core, it's still fast. My complaint is price drift.
     
  10. Redneck1089, Nov 8, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013

    Redneck1089 macrumors 65816

    Redneck1089

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    #10
    Believe me, the slow clock speed isn't the only disappointment with the new Mac Pro.
     
  11. Celedral macrumors 6502

    Celedral

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    #11
    The newer xeon architecture will be faster than the previous generation clock for clock. Still I would love it to be Dual six core instead of the single 12 core. If that was the case it could have gone up to 24cores/48threads!!!!!!!
     
  12. handsome pete macrumors 68000

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    Aug 15, 2008
    #12
    I'd like to think not, but then again after seeing some other posts around here :eek:
     
  13. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

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    Jul 17, 2010
    #13
    Running 12 cores and 24 threads the E5-2697 will run at 1 bin over 2.7GHz. It tops out at 3.5GHz well over the OP's frequency and has lower thread execution that will embarrass Westmere. Let's all please read up before complaining of low frequency like they are at all measured the same generation to generation. All kinds of other optimizations are also inherent. The 8-core benches faster than the 3.06GHz 12-core according to the rumors results. 12-cores at 2.7GHz will still be faster than 8 at 3GHz. Guaranteed.
     
  14. macuser453787 macrumors 6502

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    #14
    ^^^ Methinks he has a point. Not that I've read up on it or anything... :)
     
  15. snapdragonx macrumors regular

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    Oct 31, 2012
    #15
    It seems some people think that clock speed is the only thing that dictates the performance of the CPU. I can guarantee that even though the clock speed of the 12 core Xeon is similar to the old models, it will out perform them significantly. Clock speed isn't everything, there are many other factors that come into play.
     
  16. RodPinto macrumors regular

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    Brazil
    #16
    Very interesting reading :

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ivy-bridge-ep-xeon-e5-2697-v2-benchmarks,3585-2.html
     
  17. haravikk macrumors 65816

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    #17
    You might want to look at recent processor releases; clock speed has been a poor indicator of performance for some time now, as while the new processors may have slower clock speeds, they can get a lot more work done than previous processors.

    Besides which, you're ignore the Turbo Boost feature; the the 12-core can actually run at up to 3.9ghz by shutting down unused (or lightly used) cores, so if your workload actually requires a higher clock speed, then the processor will operate at that speed.


    Think of it this way; I have an early 2008 Mac Pro with 8 cores running at 3.2ghz, but the mid 2012 model at 3.06ghz is a lot faster overall. Not least of all because an 8-core 2012 model actually has 16 hardware threads, but also because it can simply perform many common tasks in far fewer steps than my 2008 can; encryption, compression, video encoding and other operations are simply faster on newer processors, irrespective of clock speed.

    Hell, the quad core Mac Mini running at 2.6ghz is now more powerful than my 2008 8-core Mac Pro in a wide range of applications.


    Clock speed is only relevant if your workload is single threaded and completely unoptimised, and if that's what you need, then you're using the wrong programs.
     
  18. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

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    Nov 25, 2005
    #18
    If you actually have applications that _need_ twelve cores, then most likely they will be using the GPUs for calculations. And these GPUs are powerful.

    ----------

    My MacBook Pro quad core (the one at the lower clock speed) compiles large programs faster than an eight core Mac Pro.

    ----------

    Floating-point performance of Haswell is _hugely_ higher than the older processors. The limit is eight fused multiply/add operations per cycle per core. But of course code needs to be re-compiled or even adapted. Benchmarks run identical code on all processor models, so you won't get that advantage when running benchmarks.
     
  19. flat five macrumors 601

    flat five

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    newyorkcity
    #19
    i need a cad program.. care to recommend a multithreaded / 'optimized' one? i really wouldn't want to use the wrong one.
    thanks #
     
  20. lucasfer899 macrumors 6502

    lucasfer899

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    London
    #20
    The new one is more powerful, despite the slower clock speed, and the 2012 Mac Pro used two 6 core chips, not one 12 core chip.
     
  21. VirtualRain, Nov 9, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013

    VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #21
    EDIT: I am mistaken about the 8/12 core (see below)…

    If I'm not mistaken, this family of CPUs is somewhat unique in that it offers the same turbo clock scaling across the line. By that, I mean the 4, 6, 8, and 12 core have turbo profiles such that they all run single threaded tasks at 3.9GHz, utilize 4 cores at 3.7GHz, 6 cores at 3.5 GHz (for the 6, 8, and 12 core CPUs) and so on. For the first time (?), you don't have to compromise and choose single core clock speed vs. multiple cores which is awesome. Buy just as many cores as you think you can load up regularly and know you're not compromising on single threaded performance.

    EDIT: Although this is still relevant to the OP…

    As for why clocks are lower as more cores come into play, that's simple... Each CPU has to fit within a specified thermal design profile (TDP) to ensure it can be cooled properly and not burn up. These CPUs are all designed for a 130W TDP and TDP (among other things) is a function of both clocks and cores. So as cores being used goes up, clocks must go down to keep the thermals within the 130W spec.
     
  22. Umbongo macrumors 601

    Umbongo

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    England
    #22
    The 12-core is lacking as it only has a maximum turbo boost of 3.5GHz. We have to keep in mind that turbo boost bins are just potential. It is possible that after an hour of intense processing on 3-4 cores could see an E5-2697 V2 running at 2.7GHz where an E5-1650V2 may run at 3.7GHz. That could make the difference to some users. Not every CPU will operate exactly the same either.

    More on the ratios here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=18235837&postcount=5
     
  23. VirtualRain macrumors 603

    VirtualRain

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    #23
    Ok, thanks, strike what I said above :eek:
     
  24. macuser453787 macrumors 6502

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  25. peabo macrumors regular

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    Feb 14, 2008
    #25
    A single 2.7GHz Ivy Bridge EP core is faster than a Nehalem 2.93Ghz core, and it's also faster than the 3.06GHz core in the 2012 model.

    On top of that, it has a turbo boost of 3.5GHz

    if clock speed was what mattered then go buy a Pentium 4 3.8GHz.
     

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