Why the lack of a standard USB port?

[Michael Scrip]

When did I say anything about the port itself? You can’t just take something someone says and twist it to fit your agenda lol.. you’d be good in politics

You said... and I quote... "USB-A stinks"... and... "for big data transfers USB-C wins hands down"

USB-A and USB-C are simply ports.

You said nothing about the protocol that runs through those ports (USB 2.0, USB 3.0)

Or the devices that were connected to those ports (hard drive, flash drive, SSD, etc)

You can have fast transfers over USB-A but slow transfers over USB-C depending on the device and the type of cable that is plugged in. So there's nothing that categorically says USB-C ports are faster than USB-A ports since there are other factors involved.

Here's your chance to explain why the USB-A port "stinks"

 

[newellj]

USB-A is not worthless and obsolete! I went to Best Buy yesterday and most of the external hard drives required a USB-A connection.

My point exactly. I understand that USB-C is the connector of tomorrow. The key word is tomorrow. I have almost twenty years of accessories that connect via USB-C and I am not going to go to the Apple Store and replace them all. USB-A 3.0 works very well today.
[doublepost=1517158822][/doublepost]

You're talking about the shape of the port... not the protocol that runs through it.

USB-A ports and USB-C ports are neither fast nor slow. It all depends on what you are plugging into them.

Try comparing a USB-A 3.0 cable with a USB-C 2.0 cable and see which one is faster.

Again... it has nothing to do with the port itself.

Thank you. Yes, USB-A 3.0 is quite speedy. In real life, often as speedy as theoretically faster protocols.

 

[New_Mac_Smell]

Can anybody actually remember a time when everything was actually USB type A connectors? Maybe in the late 90s when electronics were a damn sight larger than they are now. I guess what some people see when they look at a cable is the USB type A connector, however I look at the other end and just see a mess of standards - which have taken form as electronics have gotten smaller, and space requirements meant they needed to have smaller connections.

Is anybody using a USB-A to USB-A connection anywhere? Or is it a USB-A to any number of connection types?

USB type C is just a standardisation of all of this into a single connection interface that combines everything. It's small enough to be used in a phone, robust enough to be used in a computer. It's more durable and is reversible, which are things that most people care about. I think they're rated for 10k insertions?

USB-A had to die, it's 20 years old and is a relic of history. USB was designed primarily to be one single connector for a variety of things, which it did, but as I said the shape and size of it has increasingly limited it so it had to change. All USB-C is doing is furthering that original goal, and at the same time adding multimedia and others to the standard - which originally was purely for low power and data.

If the ports still bother you then you can buy new cables, I'd personally like to finally see a full implementation of USB-C so I just need a single cable. I'm fed up of having to carry a USB to B, Micro B (And all the random variants of that), SS, etc. cables just in case I need it. Literally camera uses one, HDD uses another, phone uses something different, then HDMI would be great but can't rely on it, so need a VGA too. It's really not a simple case of "but everything is USB-A" because it just isn't. At least USB-C does offer to be all of these things, and everyone is starting to implement it into their systems.

So replace a couple of cables at very low cost for the ones you use all the time, get a USB-A - C adapter for that odd occasion, or just get a cheap dock/hub https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Alu...UTF8&qid=1517158422&sr=1-2&keywords=usb+c+hub. Or buy a 2015 model, however it does seem daft to buy an older device purely out of stubbornness of the available ports.

I get that some people don't like having 'the future' thrust upon them, just as much as others love it. There are things that could be done differently such as the inclusion of a USB-A/C adapter in the box, but including USB-A ports on the computer would have added complexity and cost, would have prevented progress on the form factor, and likely would have slowed down adoption of the platform. It's been a rip the bandaide off kind of release but something had to happen because these boxes of USB cables I have (And I'm assuming most people have) lying around is getting beyond silly.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Can anybody actually remember a time when everything was actually USB type A connectors? Maybe in the late 90s when electronics were a damn sight larger than they are now. I guess what some people see when they look at a cable is the USB type A connector, however I look at the other end and just see a mess of standards - which have taken form as electronics have gotten smaller, and space requirements meant they needed to have smaller connections.

View attachment 748918

Is anybody using a USB-A to USB-A connection anywhere? Or is it a USB-A to any number of connection types?

USB type C is just a standardisation of all of this into a single connection interface that combines everything. It's small enough to be used in a phone, robust enough to be used in a computer. It's more durable and is reversible, which are things that most people care about. I think they're rated for 10k insertions?

USB-A had to die, it's 20 years old and is a relic of history. USB was designed primarily to be one single connector for a variety of things, which it did, but as I said the shape and size of it has increasingly limited it so it had to change. All USB-C is doing is furthering that original goal, and at the same time adding multimedia and others to the standard - which originally was purely for low power and data.

If the ports still bother you then you can buy new cables, I'd personally like to finally see a full implementation of USB-C so I just need a single cable. I'm fed up of having to carry a USB to B, Micro B (And all the random variants of that), SS, etc. cables just in case I need it. Literally camera uses one, HDD uses another, phone uses something different, then HDMI would be great but can't rely on it, so need a VGA too. It's really not a simple case of "but everything is USB-A" because it just isn't. At least USB-C does offer to be all of these things, and everyone is starting to implement it into their systems.

So replace a couple of cables at very low cost for the ones you use all the time, get a USB-A - C adapter for that odd occasion, or just get a cheap dock/hub https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Alu...UTF8&qid=1517158422&sr=1-2&keywords=usb+c+hub. Or buy a 2015 model, however it does seem daft to buy an older device purely out of stubbornness of the available ports.

I get that some people don't like having 'the future' thrust upon them, just as much as others love it. There are things that could be done differently such as the inclusion of a USB-A/C adapter in the box, but including USB-A ports on the computer would have added complexity and cost, would have prevented progress on the form factor, and likely would have slowed down adoption of the platform. It's been a rip the bandaide off kind of release but something had to happen because these boxes of USB cables I have (And I'm assuming most people have) lying around is getting beyond silly.

Great post!

I'd also add that everyone's favorite 2015 Macbook Pro only had two USB ports anyway. So if you needed to plug in 3+ devices at once... you already needed a hub (dongle)

I had to laugh at an earlier post saying "it adds up if you have to replace ALL your cables"

Geez... how many devices do you have? Unless you're trying to plug in six external hard drives at once... you don't need to replace all six cables! You just need one or two USB-C to whatever-is-on-the-other-end cables.

Also... I totally understand the frustration if someone hands you a USB-A flash drive and your computer doesn't have any USB-A ports.

Isn't there some tiny keychain dongle you could carry with you all the time?

I know it's not elegant... but neither is embracing USB-A ports for another 20 years!

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

That's the point - you have to buy them and (unless you get cheap no-name cables that might fry your computer) the cost soon adds up.

So what you are actually whining about is not that you actually can do what you first whined about, but that you are too cheap to spend 35$ (Or even less), after spending $500+ on the phone? And that because Apple have decided to ship the cable that most of their consumers have (USB-A) instead of what you need? In a perfect world you could choose between a USB-A or USB-C cable, but since the majority of their customers have the first, I completely get why they still go with USB-A, since it would double the number of iPhones they sell for almost no reason other than padding misers on the head.

 

[benzslrpee]

at one point Best Buy had floppy discs and cd-roms. let the past go man

i have not seen Thunderbolt 3 over USB-A. not sure if this is by design and i am too lazy to look it up. but if this continues USB-A 3.0 / 3.1 will phase itself out as peripherals suck up more data bandwidth... especially if USB-C eventually evolves to Thunderbolt only

USB-A is not worthless and obsolete! I went to Best Buy yesterday and most of the external hard drives required a USB-A connection.

 

[Starship67]

Try syncing a 2GB audio book over WIFI. Next try using a USB connection.

You might seek some better wifi then. I sync all the time over wifi no issues. Very large library and even movies sometimes.

 

[leman]

My point exactly. I understand that USB-C is the connector of tomorrow. The key word is tomorrow. I have almost twenty years of accessories that connect via USB-C and I am not going to go to the Apple Store and replace them all. USB-A 3.0 works very well today.

No, USB-C is the connector of today — a lot of peripherals released late 2017 and 2018 support USB-C out of box. And yes, your post makes sense, but I find the overall spirit behind it questionable. If we never do anything new because we are worried about backward compatibility we will never have any improvements. USB-C offers universal connectivity which is of direct benefit to every single computer user. It is a strictly superior superset of USB3.0 in every imaginable way. And USB-C is not taking anything away from you. Your old accessories still work — buy a cheap USB hub or a USB cable. Most external drives I use have USB-B connectors, some are USB-C. For some reason I have no problems with connecting them to my laptop.

 

[theluggage]

So what you are actually whining about is not that you actually can do what you first whined about, but that you are too cheap to spend 35$ (Or even less), after spending $500+ on the phone?

I wasn't talking about the iPhone (although, yes, why couldn't Apple throw in a $5 adapter with their $800 phone?)

I was talking about the new MBP vs. the array of USB-A, DisplayPort, ethernet and MagSafe devices I have (including those bought in the last 12 months) both at my work desk and my home desk. Currently, I can just carry the bare MBP to and from work - I added up the cost of equipping all of those with reputable-brand USB-C cables or adapters, new power supplies (at work I have an Apple Cinema display with built-in MagSafe) etc. to get the same level of functionality back in 2016 and it came to over £400. Probably a bit cheaper now - but still a lot more than $35.... and no, that wasn't a deliberately exaggerated shopping list because I was genuinely considering buying a new MBP and adding up the actual cost.

Ended up waiting and getting a 2017 iMac for home which, in a sudden outbreak of common sense, has 2xTB3/USB-C for the future plus 4xUSB3-A and ethernet for the present. The old MBP is still getting the job done at work.

 

[bruinsrme]

...well, yes, $5, $10, $15, $20 here and there does add up if you're going to re-cable all of your USB-A devices with USB-C cables, not to mention the $priceless when someone at a meeting hands you a flash drive and you don't have your adapter with you...



Well, we can start with all the USB-C evangelists who think that it is faster than USB-A. Then there's Trusted Reviews getting USB 3.2 completely wrong (see above).

But maybe you really don't think that it will be confusing to multiple types of superficially identical cables with quite different functions (charge cables that support full current charging but can only carry USB 2 data, cables that support USB3.1 and DisplayPort but won't enable 100W charging and won't carry Thunderbolt, passive Thunderbolt cables that also do USB 3.1 and DP (but not all of which support 100W) and active Thunderbolt cables which do TB3 but only USB2.0 and can run Thunderbolt displays (that use DisplayPort-over-Thunderbolt) but not DisplayPort displays (that use USB-C DisplayPort alt mode). ...and I'm not making this up: all of those permutations are available from Apple (including the LG 4k display which uses USB-C DP alt mode, and the LG 5k display which uses Thunderbolt). Believe me - once those cables start to get jumbled up, there will be confusion.



CPU chipsets can be configured in a multitude of ways based on the manufacturer's requirement, so its not really fair to take the existing
Meanwhile, whenever I've bought computer displays from HP or Dell they've come with some cables, and many USB-C hard drives etc. come with both USB-C-to-C and USB-C-to-A cables or adapters in the box (as did dual USB/Firewire devices back in the day). Apple could have retained a lot of good will by chucking one or two of those proverbial $5 USB-C-to-A dongles (which would cost Apple a lot less than $5) in the box with their $2000+ computer. Or, at least having an Apple-designed-and-tested multiport dock with USB-A, SD and MiniDP in the Store for a subsidised price from day one.

So you’re again one format.
Personally I’ve shifted to liking what Apple has done.
Instead of Apple giving me things I will never use I tailor my system to what I want. More money? Sure, however a few bucks and make some coffee at home has enriched my experience.

Apple didn’t have a docking station at the release, why still holding on to that?
They do today as do others

 

[theluggage]

No, USB-C is the connector of today — a lot of peripherals released late 2017 and 2018 support USB-C out of box.

...and most of those also support USB-A out of the box with no degradation in performance and even come with a USB-C-to-A cable or adapter in the box (unless they're from Apple who are now so greedy that they don't even include the charge cable or extension cord if you buy a spare power supply). There are only a few 3.1gen2 10Gbps devices (which could have been provided over a USB-A port anyway) around which still aren't as fast as Thunderbolt 2 - which we already had.

The majority of devices that only support USB-C are the multifunction docks people now need to get their USB-A, HDMI and DisplayPort back.

Anyway, what most people are asking for is not no USB-C but a mix of USB-C/TB3 and USB3-A ports.

 

[ixxx69]

USB-c may (or may not be) on the way to becoming "a new standard" as some here proclaim. That remains to be seen.

No, it is the new "standard". That's just a fact. To suggest otherwise is FUD. The USB consortium could care less about a few posters on a Mac forum who simply can't wrap their heads around this.

It does not remain to be seen. They are not testing the waters. We're in a transition period between the two connectors where they will all continue to co-exist (along with many other variations of USB connectors) for many years, with USB-C slowly taking.

...well, yes, $5, $10, $15, $20 here and there does add up if you're going to re-cable all of your USB-A devices with USB-C cables, not to mention the $priceless when someone at a meeting hands you a flash drive and you don't have your adapter with you...

So you're blaming Apple for being unprepared for your meeting? Do you blame Apple when someone at your meeting hands you a VGA cable to their projector, but you don't have a VGA dongle with you?

This isn't Apple's problem, and it's not a problem for me, or the millions of other folks who are quite happy with their new MBP's. It's your problem. And by all measures, your intent here on these forums is to convince everyone else that it's their problem as well.

Well, we can start with all the USB-C evangelists who think that it is faster than USB-A. Then there's Trusted Reviews getting USB 3.2 completely wrong (see above).

And now you're blaming Apple because some random internet dude on a forum over-simplifies or provide bad information? Seriously?

The "speed" thing is because many less knowledgeable users conflate USB-C with TB3 because they use the same port, and TB3 is faster.

What this has to do with anything is only apparent to you though.

And apparently by your endless complaints, the only solution to this horrible mass confusion that fills up the forums with threads every day (not!) is to have a separate connector shape and cable for every different usage and every different version of any given port?

What you fail to comprehend, and after a year and a half of your postings, obviously no amount of facts or explanations are going to change that - is that "you" are not representative of the market - you'll continually conflate your own frustrations with that of 97% of MBP users who don't hang out on forums for years on end bitching about a USB port. Why you continue to invest your money in products from a company that you are fundamentally at odds with is baffling.

 

[theluggage]

Is anybody using a USB-A to USB-A connection anywhere? Or is it a USB-A to any number of connection types?

That's irrelevant, because you're not - have never been - supposed to use a USB A-to-A connection.

The original architecture is master-slave, masters - USB computers & hubs - had Type A sockets and slaves - peripherals - had Type B sockets.

Cables were always supposed to be A-to-B. A-to-A cables certainly exist, but I'm not sure they ever had an officially-approved use. I have one no-name drive enclosure with a USB3-A "input" that came with an A-to-A cable but I suspect that breaks the rules.

Mini- and Micro- USB connectors also came in A- and B- varieties, but most of the ones in the wild are the B-version. I don't think I've ever seen a Mini-A or Micro-A connector in real life.

Phones started as purely peripheral devices - so they have type-B slave connectors and need dongles to act as hosts. USB on-the-go - and Mini/Micro-AB connectors are a later addition to allow phones to act as both master and slave.

USB-C has done away with the physical distinction between A and B connectors, and left the electronics to sort it out - which is probably progress, but hardly an argument for dashing out and upgrading.

 

[leman]

...and most of those also support USB-A out of the box with no degradation in performance and even come with a USB-C-to-A cable or adapter in the box

Of course they do, since USB-C is simply a USB connector and supports a strict superset of protocols in comparison to USB-A. Anything USB-A can do, USB-C can do, and that is what makes USB-C "better".

Anyway, what most people are asking for is not no USB-C but a mix of USB-C/TB3 and USB3-A ports.

Multiple ports that dan do data/charging/video etc. is strictly better and more flexible than some ports that can do data/charging/video/etc. AND some ports that can only do data. Again, this discussion is just about convenience for people who have legacy hardware. I do not understand why these people should be treated specially, mores that treating them specially slows the adoption of the clearly superior standard.

 

[newellj]

No, USB-C is the connector of today — a lot of peripherals released late 2017 and 2018 support USB-C out of box. And yes, your post makes sense, but I find the overall spirit behind it questionable. If we never do anything new because we are worried about backward compatibility we will never have any improvements. USB-C offers universal connectivity which is of direct benefit to every single computer user. It is a strictly superior superset of USB3.0 in every imaginable way. And USB-C is not taking anything away from you. Your old accessories still work — buy a cheap USB hub or a USB cable. Most external drives I use have USB-B connectors, some are USB-C. For some reason I have no problems with connecting them to my laptop.

Fair points and true, but I really don't want to carry a bag full of dongles and adapters around. And, as I said, Apple's highly inconsistent stance on this is just a little crazy-making.

 

[leman]

USB-c may (or may not be) on the way to becoming "a new standard" as some here proclaim. That remains to be seen.

According to the body that covers USB standard, USB-C is the official standard. I am not really sure what you mean. its not about "lets wait and see". Its a done deal. The USB consortium is certainly not going to reverse the standard just because you happen own an external hard drive or two that happens to come with a USB-B to USB-A cable out of box. USB-A is literally dead end, the industry managed to give it an impressive lifespan with some neat tricks, but it can't be developed any further.

[doublepost=1517174046][/doublepost]

Fair points and true, but I really don't want to carry a bag full of dongles and adapters around. And, as I said, Apple's highly inconsistent stance on this is just a little crazy-making.

If you own any Apple products, you already carry a lot of dongles and adapters around. if anything, with USB-C/TB3 you will have to carry less adapters. My video adapter is also my card reader and my usb hub — thats something that was not possible with the old ports. And yes, Lightning should just die. I am very upset that it is still a thing. P.S. And if you own any USB accessories, there is a very good change that you are carrying a bunch of dongles around as well — USB cables. The new connector just requires a different cable, but its still the same USB cable.

 

[newellj]

According to the body that covers USB standard, USB-C is the official standard. I am not really sure what you mean. its not about "lets wait and see". Its a done deal. The USB consortium is certainly not going to reverse the standard just because you happen own an external hard drive or two that happens to come with a USB-B to USB-A cable out of box. USB-A is literally dead end, the industry managed to give it an impressive lifespan with some neat tricks, but it can't be developed any further.

[doublepost=1517174046][/doublepost]

If you own any Apple products, you already carry a lot of dongles and adapters around. if anything, with USB-C/TB3 you will have to carry less adapters. My video adapter is also my card reader and my usb hub — thats something that was not possible with the old ports. And yes, Lightning should just die. I am very upset that it is still a thing. P.S. And if you own any USB accessories, there is a very good change that you are carrying a bunch of dongles around as well — USB cables. The new connector just requires a different cable, but its still the same USB cable.

Not carrying any dongles or adapters currently...and at $30-60, not really looking for excuses to buy new cables. :-/ In a few years, we'll all (most of us, anyway?) be happy about USB-C and its considerable benefits. While we transition, some of us will bitch & moan.

 

[leman]

In a few years, we'll all (most of us, anyway?) be happy about USB-C and its considerable benefits. While we transition, some of us will bitch & moan.

That can't be helped unfortunately I understand that its a crappy situation, but in the end its a "political" (or better, social engineering) question, and not a technical one.

P.S. Actually, it can be helped — by Apple giving you at least some cables/adapters for free. It wouldn't cost them anything and would create very good publicity. I was also wondering why they don't use their industry influence to create USB-C controller chips for third-party (we still have lack of quality USB controllers even after all this time, which is frankly ridiculous).

 

[travelsheep]

Very likely Apple will continue to run this course for 3 or 4 more years and then re-introduce USB-A, SD-Card slot and the other ports.
[doublepost=1517175690][/doublepost]

Why do people keep implying that USB-C is faster than USB-A?

It just isn't.

USB-C carries a single channel of the same USB 3.1 protocol that you can get from a USB-A port (and, yes, you can run 10Gbps 3.1gen2 through USB-A - several high-end PC motherboards offer gen2 USB-A ports).

USB 3.2 will actually allow USB-C to carry 2 USB3.1 channels, but it was only recently announced and when it does arrive you'll need new computers, hubs and peripherals to take advantage of it.

...and while USB-C can carry displayport as well, all the current implementations (and most available displays) only support DP1.2 which needs all the high-speed data lanes of a USB-C port to support 4k@60Hz just leaving the fallback USB 2.0 lane for data. So USB-C docks can't run 4k displays alongside USB3.1 - you need to go to TB3.

Now, Thunderbolt 3 is a different proposition - it has a number of benefits over TB2, including the ability to repurpose any unused TB3 ports as USB ports. The complaints aren't about the presence of TB3/USB-C ports, they're about the lack of anything else. I don't think we'd be seeing this level of moaning if Apple had just upgraded the 2015 rMBP with new chips, improved display and just upped the TB2 ports to TB3.



Yes, because Magsafe sockets and SD readers break down all the time - said nobody ever at all.



That's the point - you have to buy them and (unless you get cheap no-name cables that might fry your computer) the cost soon adds up.



No it isn't. 16 years ago, the only real need for old-style serial ports was a bunch of "niche" industrial equipment that was programmed via RS232. Which was a real issue for people who needed it (dongles were available) but isn't remotely comparable to the ubiquity of USB-A equipment today. Oh, and the reference to parallel printers is ridiculous since the Mac never sported a parallel interface and (with Mac use then at a low ebb) the choice of Mac compatible printers with serial ports was rapidly declining and LocalTalk printer sharing - once the Mac's unique selling point - had been wiped out by ethernet.

The switch to USB may have had a few downsides, but overall the combo of USB and Firewire was a night and day improvement over the proprietary ADB/Localtalk, quirky "differently standard" RS423 serial connector and expensive, bulky and complex SCSI (remember terminators and device numbers?) that it replaced.

USB-C, by contrast, has only marginal improvements over USB-A with a huge side-order of confusion and potential incompatibilities (at least 4 potentially incompatible different types of USB-C to USB-C on the Apple Store, for instance). Most of its advantages are as a replacement for microUSB/MHL on mobile - which is the one place Apple aren't using it.

This should be a blog post with a million views.

 

[Queen6]

Have to confess I'm "Dongle free" and clean for 3 months

Q-6

 

[bcave098]

I think the latest and “greatest” MacBook pros are portable desktops. The previous generation, which luckily we can still buy, is a more true “laptop”.
The biggest difference is the robust dongle factor.
I have a 13” ,2013 MacBook Pro. Great machine. But the drive is too small. 256g. I have l limited options. Non supplied by Apple (other than buying a new laptop ). The 2 options I found are a Sandisk 128G usb A device. Now available in 256G and reasonably fast. Or a micro SD card in a metal bracket to perfectly fit SD card slot. I don’t know the speed of these.
For the new MacBook Pro , nothing as small and as rugged as the Sandisk usb A devices.
MagSafe, absolutely brilliant! Removing the MagSafe from latest, absolutely asinine !

I also have a Dell work computer “similar” to what the MacBook Pro should have been! Usb A , check. SD card slot, check. Usb c, check. MagSafe, no. Mac OS , no.
I have a port expander or dock. One big problem is that the cord is only about a foot long. No option for longer. It’s now a portable desktop unit. Overall not to bad.

Interesting since Dell's new XPS 13 (the MacBook Pro 13" killer) has 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports and 1 USB-C port. No USB-A in sight.

USB-A is not worthless and obsolete! I went to Best Buy yesterday and most of the external hard drives required a USB-A connection.

That's very uncommon. Most USB 3 hard drives use USB Micro-B 3.x cables (like this one), which can be replaced by USB-C versions if it doesn't come with it.

Is anybody using a USB-A to USB-A connection anywhere? Or is it a USB-A to any number of connection types?

While I agree with you, I did purchase a USB 3.0 enclosure that was USB-A to USB-A, and use it with my Xbox One. I still find it weird.

 

[ixxx69]

Very likely Apple will continue to run this course for 3 or 4 more years and then re-introduce USB-A, SD-Card slot and the other ports.

Completely and totally unlikely. From Apples perspective, what would be the point?

It's like all these people posting about Apple and what Apple will/should do when they seem to have literally no understanding of Apple's design philosophy or the last 20 years of Apple products, let alone the computer industry, how businesses actually work, etc. Look, I'm nauseated like everyone else every time one of those Apple executives proclaims how "magical" their products are, but if Apple is anything, it's extremely consistent.

Interesting since Dell's new XPS 13 (the MacBook Pro 13" killer) has 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports and 1 USB-C port. No USB-A in sight.

Also, while the MS Surface Book 2 still has a USB-A port, no dedicated video port - just USB-C for video. So I suppose for the "pro" crowd that's been blasting the MBP for not having legacy video ports, they'll now move on to the Microsoft and Dell forums where they can blast those products as well? If only.

This whole "the sky is falling" attitude about USB-C is so beyond ludicrous.

 

[travelsheep]

Or, at least having an Apple-designed-and-tested multiport dock with USB-A, SD and MiniDP in the Store for a subsidised price from day one.

It seems hard to do this, and probably the major reason Apple didn't. Since two years 3rd party vendors keep failing to provide a really good one. Apple saved a lot of money, trouble and work by "outsourcing" a hard problem.

 

[jwolf6589]

A lot of people preferred VHS.

WIFI sync is slower and not as reliable. I used to sync with WIFI but had numerous problems with it.

 

[theluggage]

And now you're blaming Apple because some random internet dude on a forum over-simplifies or provide bad information? Seriously?

No, I was responding to people on this very thread who are trying to deny that USB-C confuses people despite showing that they themselves don't quite get the difference between USB A/B/C and USB 2/3/3.1/3.2. Do keep up.

And apparently by your endless complaints, the only solution to this horrible mass confusion that fills up the forums with threads every day (not!) is to have a separate connector shape and cable for every different usage and every different version of any given port?

Wow - textbook fallacious argument there. No, I'm suggesting that a current-model laptop should have a mix of TB3/USB-C connectors for the future and USBA/3.1 connectors for today. Anybody here calling for VGA, RS232, DVI.... Ethernet, even? Nope (although frankly I could use an ethernet port, and there probably are a few people here still using DVI and RS232). People are asking for USB-A because it is still the most commonly used interface by a vast margin.

with that of 97% of MBP users who don't hang out on forums for years on end bitching about a USB port.

So, you're just going to assume that this 98% of silent users agree with you, then? Mature. If we're playing fantasy democracy, ever stopped to think what percentage of users actually need 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 RAID enclosures, vs. the number of people who have a USB-A external drives, or use USB-A flash drives? For that matter, what percentage do you think actually need anything faster than a 2015 rMBP or an Air? If 97% of MBP users had even upgraded to 2016/2017 models, Apple would be building another deck on top of their new donut campus by now!

Why you continue to invest your money in products from a company that you are fundamentally at odds with is baffling.

Well, I don't see myself buying an Apple laptop any time soon unless my trusty 2011 17" MBP dies...
I did have a brief flirt with a MS Surface Book and would be off Apple by now except...well, just google "sleep of death".

Fortunately, the USB-C uber alles madness hasn't spread to the iMac yet so I got one of those - and if my old MBP dies I'll get a used Air or 2015 13" rMBP or something for work... and I've set up a better syncing system so the laptop and iMac mirror each other.

...and, yes, the combination of two TB3/USB-C ports and a bunch of USB-A ports on the iMac is perfect, although, ironically, having a bunch of dongles around the back wouldn't be such a big deal on a desktop machine that stays in one place.

See, here's part of the problem: In the past, connector obsolescence has been linked with order-of-magnitude improvement in both the computer and the connection technology. Apple's last big technology bonfire was the 2012 rMBP - alongside that came the switch to SSD giving a night-and-day improvement in responsiveness. Today, the CPU and GPU improvements between generations are far more incremental - and USB-C vs. the "old" ports is swings-and-roundabouts (with lots of small print).

My 2011 MBP (upgraded to SSD) is still a pretty darned good machine. Same goes for the 27" cinema display I hook it up to at work. So a new MBP isn't going to open up new vistas of computing to me (since I also use a top-end 2017 iMac I know what the difference is - and half the time you don't notice it) - it needs to be an improvement in other ways as well. At current prices it darned near needs to make me pancakes for breakfast. All my USB-C-related problems may not be insoluble, but a $2500 computer should be solving problems for me, not making new ones. Between connection issues, the keyboard and the if big-is-good-that-doesn't-mean-bigger-is-better trackpad, lets just say I'm not smelling maple syrup.

When Macs - and enough available peripherals - have USB-C ports with USB 3.2 support, DisplayPort 1.4 alt mode, Thunderbolt 3.whatever (with DP 1.4) then USB-C will be much more of a contender and I'll happily re-consider. Maybe some of the silly "charge and USB2" cables will have died a death by then and do-it-nearly-all passive TB3 cables will be standard.
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(re: MiniDP/USB-A/SD multiport) It seems hard to do this, and probably the major reason Apple didn't.

The only problem is that it really has to be done with Thunderbolt, since full-width DisplayPort (for 4k@60Hz) needs all 4 lanes of a USB-C cable, so it can't simultaneously carry USB 3. Hence the "subsidised" (or at least "modest profit" bit.

All the technology was there in the LG 5k Ultrafine display - just remove the display panel, speakers, mic, camera etc. and put it in a smaller box