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nquinn

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2020
829
618
Current WIFI 6E router options have mediocre 1Gb LAN ports. Waiting for something with >1Gb LAN ports like the TP-Link Archer AX206 with both 10Gb and 2.5Gb ports to link them together without bottleneck.

https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/wifi-router/archer-ax206/
And also want to wait for these routers to get to more reasonable price ranges. Like $80-$150, not $550-$600.
I'm debating if it's even worth waiting for 6E if the next macbook pro's don't have it, or if it won't matter much because the 6E routers won't be affordable until 2025 or something.

Short term maybe not a horrible plan to simply pick up some enterprise grade 802.11ac stuff (ruckus, etc) or just a budget wi-fi 6 5ghz model.
 

MikeX

macrumors regular
Oct 27, 2016
116
58
5ghz is not really usable because of radar detection and DFS. every once in a while line halts and waits for radar signal which fcks up real-time connections. so the routers you have with DFS channels are pretty much useless. and you'll get connections and teams/skype video hanging.

does 6ghz solve this? there is the AFC but I don't know how it works e.g in Europe. at least indoors radar detection is not a requirement.

why they don't call this wifi 7 is pretty bs. i think 802.11be is called Wifi 7 which is another bs.
 

nquinn

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2020
829
618
5ghz is not really usable because of radar detection and DFS. every once in a while line halts and waits for radar signal which fcks up real-time connections. so the routers you have with DFS channels are pretty much useless. and you'll get connections and teams/skype video hanging.

does 6ghz solve this? there is the AFC but I don't know how it works e.g in Europe. at least indoors radar detection is not a requirement.

why they don't call this wifi 7 is pretty bs. i think 802.11be is called Wifi 7 which is another bs.

Wow learned something new today. Do indoor AP's also do radar detection? Or only the weatherproof/outdoor style AP's?
 

Sciomar

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2017
559
1,737
5ghz is not really usable because of radar detection and DFS. every once in a while line halts and waits for radar signal which fcks up real-time connections. so the routers you have with DFS channels are pretty much useless. and you'll get connections and teams/skype video hanging.

does 6ghz solve this? there is the AFC but I don't know how it works e.g in Europe. at least indoors radar detection is not a requirement.

why they don't call this wifi 7 is pretty bs. i think 802.11be is called Wifi 7 which is another bs.
Maybe if you live near a waterway or airport, most residentials shouldn't see that problem. You could go in manually and use non-DFS channels (if your hardware allows that).

They shot themselves in the foot with the naming policy, desperate to launch that 6 GHz under the WiFi 6 scheme. The naming convention is easier to follow for the average user, 1-7 versus the variations of 802.11. It makes sense though, 6e is a great boost in capability but it's not that huge a jump. WiFi 7 is going to be amazing (30 Gbps, 16 spatial streams, and possibly 320 MHz bandwidth), multiband and multichannel operation.
 
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Ethrem

macrumors 6502
May 10, 2009
368
340
you cannot afford to rent it or even buy an 500-600$ router that you will use it for a decade probably?! but you buy an iphone/smartphone for the same price or even higher that you use it for 2-3-4 max 5 years
So if you use it daily think about it as an investment

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I still have my ASUS TM-1900 that I got for $99 from T-Mobile and flashed to an AC68U. It gets 300Mbps across the whole townhome on 5GHz except the basement where it drops to around 75-100. Late at night when the neighbors aren’t using their connections I get 500Mbps speeds from it but regardless, I have no intention of replacing it until it dies because it serves our uses just fine.

I value my phone more than squeezing more out of my WiFi, especially since the router is in my room so I have my gaming desktop, Shield TV, Xbox Series X, and the roommate’s power line adapter (he bought a crappy WiFi adapter that drops all the time and he works from home now) hardwired.
 

Ethrem

macrumors 6502
May 10, 2009
368
340
So if you keep the router for 3 years and have 2 years warranty, as most brands offers, then you only pay $467.64 to $575.64 Now that is a hack of a great deal you have there at Comcast!!! - especially if it is a Netgear AX6000 Mesh System Comcast supply.... or perhaps not.

Or you can pay $25 a month to remove the 1.2TB cap which includes the gateway by buying XFi Complete. I like my MB8600 I bought but I have thought about it since right now my unlimited is costing me $30 by itself so it would save me $5 and give me a more capable router than my AC68U.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,690
WiFi 7 is going to be amazing (30 Gbps, 16 spatial streams, and possibly 320 MHz bandwidth), multiband and multichannel operation.
So when is that going to be released? I'd want it. (I'm in the process of figuring out a 6E solution for a large building)
 

nquinn

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2020
829
618
Maybe if you live near a waterway or airport, most residentials shouldn't see that problem. You could go in manually and use non-DFS channels (if your hardware allows that).

They shot themselves in the foot with the naming policy, desperate to launch that 6 GHz under the WiFi 6 scheme. The naming convention is easier to follow for the average user, 1-7 versus the variations of 802.11. It makes sense though, 6e is a great boost in capability but it's not that huge a jump. WiFi 7 is going to be amazing (30 Gbps, 16 spatial streams, and possibly 320 MHz bandwidth), multiband and multichannel operation.

My big gripe is that no other devices are keeping up with wi-fi!

- Carriers? Forget about it. Even 1Gbps is very expensive (I'm on 300Mbps for $40 a month which is a steal with Fios right now, but 1Gbps is like $80/month). Forget 2, 5, 10Gbps.
- Access points? Most are still only coming with 1Gbps ports or 2.5Ggbps ports and those cost like $600
- NAS devices? Same deal - either pricey 2.5Gbps models or VERY pricey 10Gbps ones.

At this point i've pretty much given up hope on 10Gbps wired ethernet. Maybe some NAS provider can come out with an onboard wi-fi 6e or 7 card so I can do super fast backups. Even though you'd run into HDD limits (around 150Mbps) or SSD 2.5" limits (500Mbps). It's not really affordable to do SSD NAS's though or NVME NAS's.

So in the end, I have no idea where or how I'd use this bandwidth. Will need to see cheaper (a) routers, (b) SSD's, and (c) NAS's. The most reasonable option might be a desktop w/ a single SSD in it and an adapter card or something.
 

Ruggy

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2017
973
630
If I understand this, it's going to be useful for people in dense wifi environments because they will be the only people using it, and as everyone gets it then it will be just the same? It doesn't actually do anything different it's just an unused frequency?
And you'll need a 6E router too I suppose? And none of your other, older devices will work with it?
And what's 6ghz range like? I suppose it's close enough to 5ghz not to make a huge difference but there will be a difference.
 

bushman4

macrumors 601
Mar 22, 2011
4,019
3,422
6E will be advantageous to most especially gamers
Keep in mind that in order to take advantage of WiFi 6E with superior speed and spectrum you’ll need a new 6E router which is currently priced at around $500
Lastly we are assuming that Apple is putting 6E in the iPhone 13. I would think they are but wait and see at the press conference in Sept
 
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Sciomar

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2017
559
1,737
So when is that going to be released? I'd want it. (I'm in the process of figuring out a 6E solution for a large building)
It's still early development stages, they have some chipsets to test but we probably won't see it for public use for years. I honestly can't give a solid timeline, too many variables affecting its development.
My big gripe is that no other devices are keeping up with wi-fi!

- Carriers? Forget about it. Even 1Gbps is very expensive (I'm on 300Mbps for $40 a month which is a steal with Fios right now, but 1Gbps is like $80/month). Forget 2, 5, 10Gbps.
- Access points? Most are still only coming with 1Gbps ports or 2.5Ggbps ports and those cost like $600
- NAS devices? Same deal - either pricey 2.5Gbps models or VERY pricey 10Gbps ones.

At this point i've pretty much given up hope on 10Gbps wired ethernet. Maybe some NAS provider can come out with an onboard wi-fi 6e or 7 card so I can do super fast backups. Even though you'd run into HDD limits (around 150Mbps) or SSD 2.5" limits (500Mbps). It's not really affordable to do SSD NAS's though or NVME NAS's.

So in the end, I have no idea where or how I'd use this bandwidth. Will need to see cheaper (a) routers, (b) SSD's, and (c) NAS's. The most reasonable option might be a desktop w/ a single SSD in it and an adapter card or something.
Agreed ? Just like when EHF comms were coming out, everything was super expensive. Time will bring that access price down, but do we have that kind of patience lol. Ubiquiti is working on some great stuff, their new Dream Machine Pro SE is not entirely the solution you want but it's better than what is available. They also have a 6e AP in development. (By the way, I am in no way affiliated or trying to push their stuff, it's just what I've been following lately.) There's always going to be a bottleneck somewhere in the network. Is this a home network you're wanting all this on?!?

The bandwidth will be more beneficial for those either in dense urban environments or with an overly-saturated smart device dwelling. If you haven't already messed around with it, try out the Ubiquiti WiFiman app, it is a simple network scanning solution. I never paid attention to my house device density, just in my device placement...call it willful ignorance ?
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,690
It's still early development stages, they have some chipsets to test but we probably won't see it for public use for years. I honestly can't give a solid timeline, too many variables affecting its development.
Thanks for the info, I was just curious. Wifi6 mesh is so much better than wifi5, and I'm hoping for a bump with 6E, I'm sure it'll be enough for what I need.
 

spicynujac

macrumors 6502
May 24, 2012
251
72
As someone with a degree in EEE and having spent years doing network engineering this is wrong on multiple levels.

1. 802.11n is in every way inferior to .ac and .ax.
2. 802.11n DOES also work on the 5GHz spectrum.
3. .ax works in the 2.4GHz and demonstrates considerable bandwidth improvements over 802.11n.
4. 2.4GHz 802.11n will never see 600Mb/s in real world use, even with 40MHz wide channels, maybe half off that if you are lucky.
5. "the lower frequencies have superior range and handle obstacles better and N is 2.4 Ghz" 802.11n on the 2.4GHz might have range but it does not handle obstacles as well, phased arrays (beam forming) only became part of the standard with 802.11ac, also the higher frequencies actually perform better at bouncing signals.

If 75MB/s is all you need then more power to you. But don't spread totally incorrect information.
But is 802.11n still the protocol with the best RANGE? That's all I'm saying and I didn't see any evidence it has been dethroned other than the vague point #1.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,690
But is 802.11n still the protocol with the best RANGE? That's all I'm saying and I didn't see any evidence it has been dethroned other than the vague point #1.
802.11n doesn't beat 802.11 a or b range wise. Of course a and b are a lot slower, but if distance is what you need, that's what you need. 802.11n failed horribly for me, neither range nor speed. .ac was a start, .ax is what i want.
 

827538

Cancelled
Jul 3, 2013
2,322
2,833
But is 802.11n still the protocol with the best RANGE? That's all I'm saying and I didn't see any evidence it has been dethroned other than the vague point #1.

The range of 2.4GHz will be similar regardless of .n vs .ax. Although I would wager that the better modems used in .ax will offer small improvements in real world range.

What will be a major improvement is at the same range, be it far or close 802.11ax will have better throughput. So what might feel unusable on 802.11n at a given position might well usable using 802.11ax.
 

Cerberus4

macrumors newbie
Sep 13, 2020
17
10


The iPhone 13 is widely expected to come with Wi-Fi 6E capabilities, and while it may seem rather nuanced to the average consumer, with only improved speeds and being "up to date" in the realm of Wi-Fi technology, it's actually a fairly significant improvement, laying the groundwork for much of what we know the future holds.

iPhone-13-Wi-Fi-6E-feature-update.jpg

To truly understand Wi-Fi 6E, MacRumors sat down for an exclusive interview with Kevin Robinson, senior vice president of marketing for the Wi-Fi Alliance, to discuss the new generation of Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi's relationship with 5G, and what new experiences it will enable. The Wi-Fi Alliance is a group few have probably heard of, but as Kevin describes it, it's a crucial part of the Wi-Fi puzzle, consisting of a "who's who" in the connectivity space.Wi-Fi is a technology that's present in the majority of technology products consumers buy and is one of the very few technologies itself that's universal. That universality means that all Wi-Fi devices must work together, even if from another brand or purchased in a completely different part of the world. That's where the Wi-Fi Alliance comes in with a program it calls Wi-Fi Certified. This program certifies devices for use with Wi-Fi, ensuring interoperability. In simpler words, the next time you go shopping for a router or other Wi-Fi-centric device and see a "Wi-Fi Certified" label, thank the Wi-Fi Alliance.

Traditionally, the name of every new release of a device, product, or technology includes a sequential increase in number, with the highest number being the latest and greatest. With Wi-Fi, that's only recently been the case. Before "Wi-Fi 6," Wi-Fi technologies were given names like 802.11b, n, or ax. The change to a sequential naming structure, according to Kevin, all boils down to making it easier for consumers to make the right decisions for their Wi-Fi needs.Knowing that, Wi-Fi 6 is still a fairly new technology. Released in 2019, it promises to offer users a more consistent, robust, and reliable Wi-Fi experience that works across a range of devices. Wi-Fi 6E, which on the surface is simply Wi-Fi 6 expanded into the 6-GHz range, was announced more recently in January of 2020.

Wi-Fi 6E builds on Wi-Fi 6, which includes a flexible approach to consumer Wi-Fi needs that ensures every device in a home, whether a smart TV streaming 4K content from Netflix or a small HomeKit-enabled sensor, gets the Wi-Fi performance that's right for that specific device.Over the past year, Wi-Fi has skyrocketed in importance, with billions of people using it to live, work, and learn during the global health crisis. That increased reliance presented a challenge to Wi-Fi capacity, especially in densely populated areas. Wi-Fi 6E is designed specifically for this, where, thanks to the expansion into the 6-GHz range, the capacity of networks and routers has increased, along with performance.The bedrock of Wi-Fi 6E's creation is the realization that under previous technologies, there would not have been enough capacity for users. This similar realization is also a reason behind the rapid adoption of 5G, specifically 5G mmWave, which aims to deliver high performance in densely populated areas. Even with the increased reliance on Wi-Fi, the significant jump in capacity presented by Wi-Fi 6E seems, to the average consumer, almost overkill. I asked Kevin why, let's say, a family of four would need to take advantage of Wi-Fi 6E when it may be excessive for their needs.The technologies inside of routers and supported products only write half the story, the other half comes from internet service providers. I asked Kevin where ISPs fall into this grander scheme of our Wi-Fi world. Specifically, why should users invest in Wi-Fi 6E compatible devices if their ISPs cannot take advantage of them?

Kevin tells me that ISPs play a "very active" role in the Wi-Fi Alliance and that service providers who are on the "leading edge" wanting to deliver the best possible experience for their customers will take advantage of Wi-Fi 6E and all it has to offer.

I ended our conversation with a rounded question about the thinking behind Wi-Fi as a whole. Current measurement metrics for an average user include whether a TV show buffers or how long it takes to download a movie. My curiosity resides in where that mentality will be in 10 to 15 years; what arbitrary unit of measurement will we use to classify Wi-Fi speeds in the future?

The answer is that many things will be the same; content streaming and so forth will stay around. However, Kevin's main point is that consumers won't be as concerned over speeds as they're concerned over experiences, specifically virtual reality. Kevin believes that we're heading towards a future where Wi-Fi plays a more integral role in the immersion of VR experiences, rather than a focus on purely offering users high-speeds.
To me, Wi-Fi 6E is fundamental long-term in two ways. More and more people are using smart home devices, and in the Apple world, HomeKit-enabled devices. In a bubble, a single home has smart home products with laptops, smartphones, and more. Wi-Fi 6, and more so Wi-Fi 6E, is future-proofing Wi-Fi for a wide range of current and future devices.

Secondly, Wi-Fi 6E and how it plays a role in VR and AR seems to be one of the clearest reasons Apple could bring it to the iPhone 13 later this fall. Apple builds on technologies it places into its products, and as the company continues its development on "Apple Glasses," the inclusion of Wi-Fi 6E and all of the benefits of high-speed, optimized, high-load Wi-Fi seems like a clear step in enabling future VR/AR experiences.

Article Link: Wi-Fi 6E Explained: What It Could Mean for iPhone 13 and Beyond
Well I can save you all a lot of guesswork & time & trouble. The much ballyhooed iPhone 13 that’s just been announced does NOT come with WiFi 6E. So I don’t know who was expecting it but typical Apple as they are wont to do, did not choose to include it as part of the iPhone 13. Thing is I should thank Apple as they just saved me a LOT of money because as of now there’s no way I’m getting the IP 13 upon learning of this.

Crap! Yeah I’ve gone & bought me the latest Netgear 6E ready router that was quite pricey & what am I going to do? Just stare at it now that Apple pulled a fast one? Again typical Apple, always withholding something, always choosing NOT to put the latest & greatest into their new stuff. Just like I’m still waiting for BT 5.2 to arrive in their headphones. How much you wanna bet any new AirPods will still NOT have that feature included? Sigh, but on the bright side it’s money in my pocket though. You don’t have to part with your $$ if you’re not being offered what you want, consumerism works that way. So again thanks are in order Apple. You made the decision all that more easier.
 
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Crow_Servo

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2018
877
1,078
America
Yep, just another reason to wait for the 14. I thought Apple would surprise us with something about the 13. Unfortunately the leaks beat them to it, and even then some of that didn’t even pan out. Pretty disappointing, but really I don’t even need a new phone this year. Mine works fine. Gonna wait another year, at least.
 

CarlJ

macrumors 604
Feb 23, 2004
6,971
12,134
San Diego, CA, USA
Crap! Yeah I’ve gone & bought me the latest Netgear 6E ready router that was quite pricey & what am I going to do? Just stare at it now that Apple pulled a fast one?
Sorry, can you remind us when Apple promised in advance that the (then) upcoming iPhone would have WiFi 6E? Sounds like you're getting upset at the wrong entity. They didn't "pull a fast one", they looked at the market and decided that 6E wasn't warranted yet.
 

frifra

macrumors 6502a
Nov 29, 2008
921
655
Coming up with a generational naming approach was very critical in that it's very accessible and understandable to the average person who needs to know what is the latest Wi-Fi and for the industry to communicate what are the benefits associated with any given generation of Wi-Fi. There are characteristics, I think, that go along with each generation, and by having a very simple name, people are more likely to be able to associate those benefits with a given generation and ultimately make the best decision for them.

But did Kevin get the memo, too?

Why not call it “WIFI 6.1” ?

Too easy for the consumer. It needs to be more complicated: WIFI 6 A.

Still too easy to comprehend.

WIFI 6E it is
:oops::rolleyes:
 
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Lioness~

macrumors 68030
Apr 26, 2017
2,948
3,663
Mars
I'm 6E and I know it!
Me too ?

Recently went through the process of letting go of Apple’s old Airport Extreme’s in favor for a new Wi-Fi 6 mesh system. A sure improvement, but it will only get better I assume when devices also can take advantage of it more.
Haven’t noticed any difference on the old iMac that probably have no idea what the new Wi-Fi signals are. ?
But my old Airport Expresses works fine to continue stream music within the new mesh-system ??
 
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nquinn

macrumors 6502a
Jun 25, 2020
829
618
Yep, just another reason to wait for the 14. I thought Apple would surprise us with something about the 13. Unfortunately the leaks beat them to it, and even then some of that didn’t even pan out. Pretty disappointing, but really I don’t even need a new phone this year. Mine works fine. Gonna wait another year, at least.
Meh, 6e makes a lot of sense to me for laptops/desktops/NAS's for large file copies, but for a smartphone? Not that necessary.
 
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