Wifi 2.4ghz vs 5ghz - Watch

[rigormortis]

AirPort Extreme. I would rather forget wifi for the watch than replace this honestly. Wifi on the watch is just a novelty feature at this point. I will have google fiber in a few months so buying a router now wouldn't make sense.

I have noticed that forgetting the 2.4ghz network on the phone doesn't necessarily forget it on the watch which makes me wonder how a person would forget a network on the watch.

the wifi on the apple watch is not a novelty feature. it is intended to keep that watch connected to it's paired iPhone
if the iPhone goes out of bluetooth range. , t-mobile / watch customers running watch os2 can forgo bluetooth
and even make a phone call on their watch , when the iPhone is not even turned on

 

[rigormortis]

Here is one radical thought... Consider dumping the AirPort Extreme for a more robust router. In my experience and reading reviews and forum comments, Apple is pretty weak in the WiFi networking space. There are a number of significantly better home WiFi routers out there. My current favorites are Asus.

If you have a better WiFi router, the client may make better band choices. Who knows. On my Asus and my neighbor's Asus, we can see iOS devices dynamically switching between the bands.

The other thing worth considering is adding another access point. I have a two-story house with a basement. I have one router in the basement that is functioning as my core router. Then, I have a second configured solely as an access point on the upstairs floor at the opposite end of the house. I get perfect WiFi coverage everywhere and I never give band or signal strength a though for any of my devices. (I have a lot of stuff on my network, so the level of individual device, band, and MAC-address tailoring mentioned above is not viable for me. I found it is best to build a robust network and then let the devices and network clients do their tasks.)

the airport might not have all the cool features of the asus, or netgear, etc. but its the most rock solid wifi connection i have ever had, i never have to reboot my airport

 

[exxxviii]

the airport might not have all the cool features of the asus, or netgear, etc. but its the most rock solid wifi connection i have ever had, i never have to reboot my airport

I agree-- Apple stuff seems optimized for stability over performance. And, WiFi seems to be a particular Apple weakness (both in the routers and clients). And, I have never had to reboot an Asus router either.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I agree-- Apple stuff seems optimized for stability over performance. And, WiFi seems to be a particular Apple weakness (both in the routers and clients). And, I have never had to reboot an Asus router either.

x2.

But, I think you can play with all the extreme settings, you just need the right version of the utility to get in there. It seems apple took away, and readded certain features in their utility software.

I think the extreme was a top product maybe 4 years ago (consumer), but other companies like Asus, have stepped up their game, and made better products for a more competitive price.

 

[douglasf13]

the airport might not have all the cool features of the asus, or netgear, etc. but its the most rock solid wifi connection i have ever had, i never have to reboot my airport

Agreed. My Uncle, who is a professional IT guy who occasionally gives me advice, (but also isn't a big fan of "Macs") is always shocked to hear that I quite literally never need to restart my OS X based servers and Apple wireless routers for my small business. I mean, I may do it once a year, just because.

 

[DJTaurus]

Sorry for the noob question but watch supposes to be working only with iphone.... so how do we connect it on wifi?

 

[exxxviii]

Sorry for the noob question but watch supposes to be working only with iphone.... so how do we connect it on wifi?

The watch gets the WiFi credentials from the phone via its Bluetooth connection. Then, the watch logs into WiFi when it loses its Bluetooth connection to the phone. The user has no direct influence over the watch's WiFi settings and connectivity.

 

[profmjh]

A couple of questions . . .

My set-up
I have an iPhone 6+, a MacBook Pro, an iPad Air 2 and an Apple Watch. I just got a dual band router. The router is in my living room at the front of the house and I get 50Mbps in there on 5.0HGhz. My study and bedroom are at the back of the house and they get weaker signal strength and slower speeds. I used to have one of those plug-in repeater/amplifier thingies that uses your mains electric network but I don't think I need it with the new router.

My questions
1. Should I give both bands the same SSID? If I do, do my devices pick a band and stick to it no matter what? Or do they make dynamic choices? In other words, if I move from one room to another, will they switch bands if it's better to do so?
2. Can the watch connect to the iPhone via WIFI if bluetooth is off? I know it can connect to the internet on its own, but does that mean you're stuck running native apps?

Thanks for any help!

 

[exxxviii]

1. Should I give both bands the same SSID? If I do, do my devices pick a band and stick to it no matter what? Or do they make dynamic choices? In other words, if I move from one room to another, will they switch bands if it's better to do so?
2. Can the watch connect to the iPhone via WIFI if bluetooth is off? I know it can connect to the internet on its own, but does that mean you're stuck running native apps?

Yes, make both bands the same SSID and password. This is pretty much the standard, normal network implementation. The clients are supposed to dynamically switch bands based on the device, signal strength, and bandwidth.

The watch can connect via WiFi if the phone gave it the WiFi credentials via the Bluetooth link. If the phone is on the same network, the watch can still run its apps that need the phone. If the phone is totally offline, then the watch is limited to what it can do directly via the Internet.

 

[barjam]

Here is one radical thought... Consider dumping the AirPort Extreme for a more robust router. In my experience and reading reviews and forum comments, Apple is pretty weak in the WiFi networking space. There are a number of significantly better home WiFi routers out there. My current favorites are Asus.

If you have a better WiFi router, the client may make better band choices. Who knows. On my Asus and my neighbor's Asus, we can see iOS devices dynamically switching between the bands.

The other thing worth considering is adding another access point. I have a two-story house with a basement. I have one router in the basement that is functioning as my core router. Then, I have a second configured solely as an access point on the upstairs floor at the opposite end of the house. I get perfect WiFi coverage everywhere and I never give band or signal strength a thought for any of my devices. (I have a lot of stuff on my network, so the level of individual device, band, and MAC-address tailoring mentioned above is not viable for me. I found it is best to build a robust network and then let the devices and network clients do their tasks.)

Switching between the bands isn't a router issue it is an iOS/spec issue. iOS will latch on to whatever has the strongest signal and thats that. The router has no say here.

Over the years I have had ASUS, Cisco, LinkSys, NetGear and DLink routers. I considered them all junk and would barely get two years out of them. The Apple router is hands down the best I have ever owned. It reach all parts of my house and is very, very reliable.

 

[barjam]

Yes, make both bands the same SSID and password. This is pretty much the standard, normal network implementation. The clients are supposed to dynamically switch bands based on the device, signal strength, and bandwidth.

The watch can connect via WiFi if the phone gave it the WiFi credentials via the Bluetooth link. If the phone is on the same network, the watch can still run its apps that need the phone. If the phone is totally offline, then the watch is limited to what it can do directly via the Internet.

They are supposed to but in reality they go on signal strength alone and do not consider bandwidth. This means they will latch on to a very clearly inferior 2.4ghz signal and not not let go. If you want to enjoy 802.11 ac you really can't do this.

 

[barjam]

the wifi on the apple watch is not a novelty feature. it is intended to keep that watch connected to it's paired iPhone
if the iPhone goes out of bluetooth range. , t-mobile / watch customers running watch os2 can forgo bluetooth
and even make a phone call on their watch , when the iPhone is not even turned on

It is at home. It would be rare that I wouldn't have the phone within bluetooth range. Don't get me wrong I would love to have this feature but not at the expense of 802.11 ac on my phone/ipad.

 

[exxxviii]

They are supposed to but in reality they go on signal strength alone and do not consider bandwidth. This means they will latch on to a very clearly inferior 2.4ghz signal and not not let go. If you want to enjoy 802.11 ac you really can't do this.

This all made me curious, so I looked on my network to see what is going on. Fortunately, I am not seeing evidence of the band latching problem you are describing. I have a mix of devices on both bands (Apple included), and they appear to move between bands at their will. Similarly, my neighbor has a newer Asus RT-AC87U router that has a better UI than mine, and you can actually see devices moving between bands on his.

Maybe there is something about the Extreme's 5GHz band, or yours in particular, that is behind the latching you are experiencing? It is interesting to me that a lot of the commentary I have seen about WiFi limitations and unexpected behaviors are associated with Apple routers.

The other cool thing a more advanced router could do is let you force band connection by MAC address like cowfish does. (The Asus routers do this, for example.) That way, you could have all you want-- absolute control over the bands your devices use plus WiFi compatibility with the watch.

 

[profmjh]

Yes, make both bands the same SSID and password. This is pretty much the standard, normal network implementation. The clients are supposed to dynamically switch bands based on the device, signal strength, and bandwidth.

The watch can connect via WiFi if the phone gave it the WiFi credentials via the Bluetooth link. If the phone is on the same network, the watch can still run its apps that need the phone. If the phone is totally offline, then the watch is limited to what it can do directly via the Internet.

That's really helpful -- thanks

 

[cowfish]

I love my Asus RT-AC3200. Range is awesome, fast, and fully customizable. Rock solid on the latest firmware.

I used to use airport extremes, but switched over when Asus routers became more popular. Glad I did. I like apple simplicity and "it just works" even though I would consider myself an advanced user, but network setup is one area where I personally require full control. If that's what you're looking for, Asus can't be beat imho.

 

[JT2002TJ]

What I suggest to all:

1. Split your SSIDs 2.4 ghz and 5 ghz networks. They can have the same password, but give them different SSIDs.
2. Connect to both networks so your keychain has the credentials in there, and your watch get them.
3. On your router & all additional access points, exclude your iPad & iPhone MAC addresses from JUST THE 2.4 ghz band.

This will give you the best of both worlds. The reason for splitting the networks is, it clearly lets you see what you are connected to. I believe those who say to keep them together, are really unaware they are on the 2.4 ghz band most of the time. Blocking the MAC address allows your devices to have the credentials stored on the device, but prevents it from connecting to them, and your watch will remember the credentials.

 

[friedmud]

That doesn't work as iOS isn't smart enough to favor the frequency with the higher bandwidth it only favors the highest signal strength.

Yes it is. I do it all the time. My iPhone connects at 5GHz and my watch at 2.4GHz with just the setup described (same SSID and password on both bands).

 

[JT2002TJ]

Yes it is. I do it all the time. My iPhone connects at 5GHz and my watch at 2.4GHz with just the setup described (same SSID and password on both bands).

How can you tell you are on 5ghz vs. 2.4 ghz without having different names. I know you can do this via the access point, but how can you tell throughout the day as it jumps between the two?

 

[friedmud]

How can you tell you are on 5ghz vs. 2.4 ghz without having different names. I know you can do this via the access point, but how can you tell throughout the day as it jumps between the two?

I just look on the access point. I've been doing quite a lot of experimentation with the Watch on wifi (for instance: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/watchos2-wifi-without-an-iphone.1919646/ ) and I have never seen my phone on anything other than 5GHz.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I just look on the access point. I've been doing quite a lot of experimentation with the Watch on wifi (for instance: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/watchos2-wifi-without-an-iphone.1919646/ ) and I have never seen my phone on anything other than 5GHz.

You need to try this, because your process may not be telling you everything. Go out of range of your router, until you drop off of Wifi. Then walk back in and test. If you leave you home a lot, or go out of range it will grab 2.4 ghz where the range is MUCH further, and hang onto it.

I have 3 access points in my house to deal with drop spots, it will pick up the next 2.4 ghz, and hang onto it instead of switching to the 5 ghz that overlaps.

This is a known issue with apple devices. Once you connect to a frequency, it will hang on as long as possible, it will not constantly search for a better signal.

 

[ProphetX]

iPhone 6. The problem is that if the phone knows about 2.4 and 5 it will favor the 2.4 more often than not because it is stronger but has much less bandwidth.

This is NOT the case in my home. All of my capable apple devices favor the 5ghz band. Maybe its your network. With all of the good that apple makes. Their networking gear is by far the worst in its price range.

 

[exxxviii]

Maybe its your network. With all of the good that apple makes. Their networking gear is by far the worst in its price range.

This.

Network design is pretty complex, and there is a lot of bad information on the Internet. There are all kinds of ways to sub-optimize a single WiFi router. Add a more than one access point in a premise, and there are exponentially more ways to degrade the overall WiFi network performance.

 

[rigormortis]

It is at home. It would be rare that I wouldn't have the phone within bluetooth range. Don't get me wrong I would love to have this feature but not at the expense of 802.11 ac on my phone/ipad.

you don't need 802.11 ac
i don't understand the watch should not have any effect on 802.11 ac what so ever

if you feel theres some thing wrong and the apple watch is having a degradation of your 802.11 ac wifi network,. then you should contact the wifi alliance and have them revoke wifi certifications

802.11 ac and 802.11 n are supposed to have MIMO, it means each device connects to your wifi router and their fastest speeds, and they are independent of each other. it means while your printer connects at 1 mbit per second , your iPhone 6s+ can connect at 300


when you imply that the watch is some how degrading your 802.11ac network , what your basically saying is your wifi network is now an 802.11 g network, and the slowest client is making all your other devices communicate to the slowest clients speed. that means your iPhone 6s+ has to slow down to 1 megabit per second to match the speed of the printer and every device on your wifi network


maybe you need a new router. maybe your router isn't mimo

 

[JT2002TJ]

you don't need 802.11 ac
i don't undestand the watch should not have any effect on 802.11 ac what so ever

Because you have to have your wif credentials stored in your watch/ipad, if you can't simply forget your 2.4 ghz network or your watch will not be on wifi. So, if you have to have 2.4 ghz credentials in your iOS devices, and your devices favor 2.4 ghz it does have a affect on you getting true ac.

 

[JT2002TJ]

This.

Network design is pretty complex, and there is a lot of bad information on the Internet. There are all kinds of ways to sub-optimize a single WiFi router. Add a more than one access point in a premise, and there are exponentially more ways to degrade the overall WiFi network performance.

Sorry. It is not bad information. Seamless transitions is not something Apple is known for. If you try what I posted above about coming and going between your routers range, you will notice it will pick up the 2.4 ghz because the range is further, and hang onto it as you are inside. If your 2.4 ghz AND your 5 ghz have similar range (ie, you dont have spots in your house where you can't get 5, but can get 2.4) perhaps you just have to worry about this. But those of us in brick/stone houses, with basements, this is not the case.