Will Apple Abandon Touch Bar with next generation MacBook Pro?

[Never mind]

I have to wonder what's left for them to redesign. The machine is already way to thin. What are they going to do different?

1. They can put in more ports, ie: sd card reader 😉
2. They can give use the older working keyboard of yester year 😉
3. They can fix the T2 chip 😉
4. They can lower the price 😉
5. They can give use a 1080p front camera 😉
6. They can give use FaceID 😉
Etc, Etc, Etc

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

This is where I fear Apple is moving. They will have a touch keyboard.

Only when the tech is ready. It needs a machine learning chip to get it working harmoniously and to reject accidental touches. The keyboard and trackpad will be one large flat area. Each app will be able to be configured to have different keyboards and controls. We have been waiting a long time to see this ever since the Jefferson Han demos in 2006 or even Star Trek.

Demo was maybe running on an SGI Onyx.

We don’t have these on laptops yet because putting an x86 chip under it would be impossible. Too hot.

 

[MacNut]

1. They can put in more ports, ie: sd card reader 😉
2. They can give use the older working keyboard of yester year 😉
3. They can fix the T2 chip 😉
4. They can lower the price 😉
5. They can give use a 1080p front camera 😉
6. They can give use FaceID 😉

I could also win the lottery.

Face ID on a computer would be horrible.

 

[FrostyF]

Apple is most definitely testing e-ink keyboards according to their patent filings.
[doublepost=1543789653][/doublepost]

I could also win the lottery.

Face ID on a computer would be horrible.

Why? Windows Hello is a fantastic feature that’s well liked.

 

[MacNut]

Apple is most definitely testing e-ink keyboards according to their patent filings.
[doublepost=1543789653][/doublepost]

Why? Windows Hello is a fantastic feature that’s well liked.

Knowing Apple they would make that the only way to unlock the machine. Computers can't be as locked down as phones.

 

[Never mind]

I could also win the lottery.

Face ID on a computer would be horrible.

Yeah, just like the poster above you said. Windows hello is a fantastic feature

 

[MacNut]

Yeah, just like the poster above you said. Windows hello is a fantastic feature

But do they use it on their pro machines?

 

[FrostyF]

Knowing Apple they would make that the only way to unlock the machine. Computers can't be as locked down as phones.

That makes no sense. On the phone and on the computer, you have to enter in your password after boot to enable Touch/Face ID and can still use the passcode/password instead there after.
[doublepost=1543790299][/doublepost]

But do they use it on their pro machines?

Wut. What does that even mean? Windows is an OS that runs on thousands of machines.

 

[cambookpro]

I could also win the lottery.

Face ID on a computer would be horrible.

Why? Seems quite natural to me, unlike a phone or tablet you're almost always directly in front of a laptop screen with it pointed at your face.

I don't think it will go this far, but the macOS menu bar means a notched display wouldn't really waste any real estate, and would mean MacBook screens could go edge to edge. Not sure how technically feasible that is yet, but sure that would be the goal at some point down the line.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I actually like Touchbar and don't want to see it go. Tried out BetterTouchTool with a preset for Ableton Live. And the Touchbar works well with Logic Pro X.

If it was up to me, Touchbar would be two rows along with the main display being a touchscreen. This would be amazing for touching up on music production without an external controller.

 

[SDColorado]

They will “improve” it by making it bigger and replacing the number row on the keyboard as well.

Or replace the entire mechanical keyboard with the TouchBoard

 

[goslowjoe]

By reducing key travel from one version of a MacBook Pro to the next, they are getting users accustomed to the idea of eventually using a "TouchBoard" as SDColorado says. It is a gradual process.

I had a 2012 MacBook Pro with keys which I initially thought had low vertical travel compare to what I had before. When I got the 2014 MacBook Pro, I thought the keys were too flat. I got used to it and now I think the 2012 MacBook Pro keys are too clunky.

I spend hours working on my two iMacs, both with Magic Keyboards with numeric keypads. When I got the keyboards, I thought the keys were too flat. I got used to them and now I think the 2014 MacBook Pro keys are too clunky.

See where we are going? I am not sure that I will actually like the idea of an "all-glass" type keyboard. It is for this reason that I do not have an iPad. The idea of typing on a flat surface just does not sound appealing to me (yet). But that is probably where the technology is heading. If the visualisations of a 2020 MacBook Pro turn out to be correct, mechanical keyboards are history, whether we like it or not.

 

[jlc1978]

See where we are going? I am not sure that I will actually like the idea of an "all-glass" type keyboard. It is for this reason that I do not have an iPad. The idea of typing on a flat surface just does not sound appealing to me (yet). But that is probably where the technology is heading. If the visualisations of a 2020 MacBook Pro turn out to be correct, mechanical keyboards are history, whether we like it or not.

It wouldn't have to be flat, they could mold in "keys" to provide some touch feedback to give the feel of seperate keys while still not requiring any keyboard travel. One advantage would be a completly sealed keybaord while still offering haptic feedback, as well as the ablity to remap the keyboard keys for different keyboard layouts. A completely smooth keyboard, OTOH, would simplify the supply chain since any keyboard layout could be done with one surface, negating the need for seperate physical designs for different countries / regions. That design would also mean Apple could easily compensate for demand variations since any MB could be shipped anywhere in the world instead of having to estimate demand and production schedules by country/region.

 

[goslowjoe]

It wouldn't have to be flat, they could mold in "keys" to provide some touch feedback to give the feel of seperate keys while still not requiring any keyboard travel. One advantage would be a completly sealed keybaord while still offering haptic feedback, as well as the ablity to remap the keyboard keys for different keyboard layouts. A completely smooth keyboard, OTOH, would simplify the supply chain since any keyboard layout could be done with one surface, negating the need for seperate physical designs for different countries / regions. That design would also mean Apple could easily compensate for demand variations since any MB could be shipped anywhere in the world instead of having to estimate demand and production schedules by country/region.

True - there will be no more issues with sticking keys and dust, and the idea of a keyboard that adapts to the language used, or the country it is used in, makes a lot of sense.

 

[VMMan]

Why even touch the screen to type? Have the camera detect your finger movements “air typing”.

 

[SDColorado]

But do they use it on their pro machines?

Who is "they?"

Knowing Apple they would make that the only way to unlock the machine. Computers can't be as locked down as phones.

I am not sure how Apple would implement Face ID, but on Windows machines with the Face ID the machines also have touch ID PIN/Password as well as Picture Password. I have never used the latter. It seems kind of stupid.

You can also record all 10 fingerprints for unlocking if you choose, rather than just 3 allowed by MacOS and you don't need to re-enter password after reboot. It will unlock from reboot with a face or fingerprint

 

[Wags]

Pretty much this.

I do wonder though if they might reintroduce a non-TB base model with the next redesign.

15inch? I wish.

 

[EEzycade]

Nah, they will definitely keep it

 

[Never mind]

But do they use it on their pro machines?

If you were check the other manufactures you will see that they do. Case in point, Lenovo having windows hello on some of their top-of-the-line notebooks.
[doublepost=1543835171][/doublepost]

Or replace the entire mechanical keyboard with the TouchBoard

Would you like to touch a keypad that has absolutely no travel?. Would you like to hit your fingers on a touch board type keyboard all day long? I certainly wouldn’t. An unnatural feeling.

 

[maflynn]

I think Touch Bar was Apple's response to people saying they weren't innovating and to somewhat hush critics who kept on harping about Apple laptops needing to be touchscreen.

Imo, it was this mentality that brought the touchbar to life, also there was constant remarks about apple not having a touch based laptop, like the PCs.

I was wondering if Apple might just implement a MacBook Air style keyboard—that only includes Touch ID in the power button—with their next generation Pro's?

They've not updated the TB since its inception, yet they have updated the CPU (T2), they updated other Macs without including a touch bar based keyboard, in fact all of their Macs with the exception of the MacBook and Mac Pro have been updated since 2016 and Apple chose not to include a touchbar. I'd say the evidence is very good that we'll see this gimmick fade and it will disappear on the next redesign which some people are hoping for next year.

 

[jlc1978]

Would you like to touch a keypad that has absolutely no travel?. Would you like to hit your fingers on a touch board type keyboard all day long? I certainly wouldn’t. An unnatural feeling.

If they add haptic feedback they can mimic travel to a certain extent; although it would take a while to get used to it. Unfortunately, there has n't really been a good keyboard since the old Selectric days.
[doublepost=1543838290][/doublepost]

They've not updated the TB since its inception, yet they have updated the CPU (T2), they updated other Macs without including a touch bar based keyboard, in fact all of their Macs with the exception of the MacBook and Mac Pro have been updated since 2016 and Apple chose not to include a touchbar. I'd say the evidence is very good that we'll see this gimmick fade and it will disappear on the next redesign which some people are hoping for next year.

I find the TB useful but not a must have feature, with the excpetion of TouchID; which really isn't a TB feature. I wonder if the lack of TB on the wireless keyboards is a power issue rather than an interface design decision. It could be in order to include it in a wireless keyboard they would have to make space for the electronics to display it, making for a thicker keyboard, as well as increased power requirements to the detriment of battery life.

If they keep it, I would like to see them expand its functionality with greater customization options, such as the ablity to display more items such as text messages, scroll a news ticker, define and label custom keys or actions, etc. Make it a tool to further adapt the MBP to a user's needs.

They could also decide it was no more than a gimmick and drop it in future designs.

Personally, I think the days of physical keys are numbered.

 

[antonis]

No because it is really useful for some pro apps that use track editing.

It’s also great for finding symbols and emojis.

Eventually keyboards will have no moving parts and will be haptic. The Touchbar is just the beginning.

Unless the human fingers get upgraded as well, this cannot happen. That is, unless you want to destroy your finger joints by typing excessively on a hard glass surface.

 

[maflynn]

Eventually keyboards will have no moving parts and will be haptic. The Touchbar is just the beginning.

No, the future for Apple is the iPad, and the future for everyone else will be computers with keyboards.

 

[jlc1978]

Unless the human fingers get upgraded as well, this cannot happen. That is, unless you want to destroy your finger joints by typing excessively on a hard glass surface.

I get your point but you are assuming the glass technology used will be the same as in current use for screens. Given the advances we are seeing in glass technology such as foldable screens it is quite possible a future glass keyboard will be basically indistinguishable from the current low throw keyboards and still be a single piece of glass.

People can also get used to using a lot less force, just as they have going from Selectric -> chicklet -> butterfly keyboards; as evidenced by how phone keyboards are used to type, which have given touch typing a new meaning.
[doublepost=1543839830][/doublepost]

No, the future for Apple is the iPad, and the future for everyone else will be computers with keyboards.

I am not so sure that the current computer form factor is the future. MS seems to be going down the same path as Apple with the Surface; the computer as a tablet with a keyboard/cover. They have chosen to stick with one OS after numerous forays into mobile OS that meet with limited success; Apple has decided to develop 2 separate operating systems although they may merge in the future. Once a tablet OS is powerful enough to repalce the desktop OS the current desktop/laptop model will fade into the background for more specialized uses.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Kill it please