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Will Apple ever release a fix for the scrolling issue?

v654321 said:
My thoughts? Stop complaining if you don't have first hand experience with the retina MacBook Pro machines.
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I'm still with this guy. I've been using Retinas at 1920x1200 resolution since they were introduced. It was bad under Lion, it was mostly OK under Mountain Lion, and under Mavericks (and throughout its betas), I've had zero problems.

kwokaaron said:
I personally think that they shouldn't have put in scaled resolution. Everything looks the best and performs the best when it is in "Best for retina" since it doesn't have to do additional interpolation and filtering operations unlike scaled ones. I understand a lot of people want more "screen space", but until the GPUs provide hardware support for scaling from such a high resolution, there will always be a performance impact, thus the scrolling lag. Keep it at "Best for retina" and it'll be fine. :p
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The arrogance in this paragraph is super obnoxious. You like it best that way, and you want to impose your personal preference on everyone else? A lot of us are perfectly happy with things at max resolution and aren't having any performance problems that bother us.
 
My biggest annoyance comes when trying to use Mission Control under heavy load for efficient desktop management.

Doesn't make the machine feel worth 2000$+

If you experience no such issues because your workflow doesnt push the UI great but that does't mean others have no right to a fluid experience for the price paid.

Again, disabling HiDPI fixes all the UI lag issues but takes away the beautiful display at close distances. At least there are options before Apple gets this sorted.

PS. At the higher resolutions, hi vs low dpi is practically indistinguishable so well worth switching to low if performance and real-estate are needed.
 
I have the Late 2013 15" rMBP 2.6/16/1TB. It's perhaps the fastest, best, nicest computer I've *ever* owned. My previous was a beautiful 17" with 750HDD/16GB quad-core i7 2.3. That computer was fantastic. This one was beyond fantastic. It's nirvana.

Seriously, nothing lags. Nothing.

Xcode is super fast, Photoshop is super fast, Safari is super fast. Battery can easily last a full day of work.

I've worked with computers professionally for 20+ years; as a hobbyist for another 12 or so years. I've *never* worked on a computer that was this fast. Ever.
 
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Hi Zieter I would suggest you buy at Apple store. Try to test for yellow tint, etc before you take it home. rMBP is perfectly fine but softwares like Maverick is not so perfect we all have to live with it anyway. :apple:
 
I have the Late 2013 rMBP 2.6/16/1TB. It's perhaps the fastest, best, nicest computer I've *ever* owned. My previous was a beautiful 17" with 750HDD/16GB quad-core i7 2.3. That computer was fantastic. This one was beyond fantastic. It's nirvana.
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Why'd you choose 13" over 15" coming from a 17"?
 
Sorry, apparently I wasn't clear. I got the 15" retina. I run it at 1920x1200, and it works great.
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I got a 13" but keep going back to see the 15" at 1920x1200. Seems ideal. Do you have the 750M?

Do you wear strong glasses? Do you find the text gets tiredly small after long periods of time?
 
commac said:
I got a 13" but keep going back to see the 15" at 1920x1200. Seems ideal. Do you have the 750M?

Do you wear strong glasses? Do you find the text gets tiredly small after long periods of time?
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I have the 750M, yes.

Text is fine. Glasses, are normal (not strong). No issues...
 
kwokaaron said:
I personally think that they shouldn't have put in scaled resolution. Everything looks the best and performs the best when it is in "Best for retina" since it doesn't have to do additional interpolation and filtering operations unlike scaled ones. I understand a lot of people want more "screen space", but until the GPUs provide hardware support for scaling from such a high resolution, there will always be a performance impact, thus the scrolling lag. Keep it at "Best for retina" and it'll be fine. :p
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First of all, 'best for retina' looks worse than higher-res modes for me. Second, already Ivy Bridge's HD4000 has texture filtering performance of over 2 GTexels/s. A scaled 1900x1200 (3680x2400) is around 9 MTexels. At 60 refreshes per second, these are 'just' 0.5GTexels - well within the card's capabilities. And usually, there is no need to rescale the whole screen every frame, because OS X only updates areas which have changed.

The 'scrolling' lag has only little to do with rescaling. Mostly, the problem is that the applications do not draw efficiently - and at those high resolutions, efficiency does matter a lot.
 
john123 said:
The arrogance in this paragraph is super obnoxious. You like it best that way, and you want to impose your personal preference on everyone else? A lot of us are perfectly happy with things at max resolution and aren't having any performance problems that bother us.
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I guess I did come off sounding arrogant but that wasn't my intention. I'm just saying that since most users say are having stutters and lags on these scaled resolutions.

leman said:
First of all, 'best for retina' looks worse than higher-res modes for me. Second, already Ivy Bridge's HD4000 has texture filtering performance of over 2 GTexels/s. A scaled 1900x1200 (3680x2400) is around 9 MTexels. At 60 refreshes per second, these are 'just' 0.5GTexels - well within the card's capabilities. And usually, there is no need to rescale the whole screen every frame, because OS X only updates areas which have changed.

The 'scrolling' lag has only little to do with rescaling. Mostly, the problem is that the applications do not draw efficiently - and at those high resolutions, efficiency does matter a lot.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't those figures only apply if it is done on a resolution which the hardware supports? From what I've head, the scaling algorithm done right now is written by Apple instead of the built-in one in the gpu. I agree that the hd4000 is more than powerful enough for those operations. Just wondering if its because of the 3rd-party scaling algorithm that's affecting the performance.
 
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kwokaaron said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't those figures only apply if it is done on a resolution which the hardware supports? From what I've head, the scaling algorithm done right now is written by Apple instead of the built-in one in the gpu. I agree that the hd4000 is more than powerful enough for those operations. Just wondering if its because of the 3rd-party scaling algorithm that's affecting the performance.
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Where did you hear that? And I mean official information, not 'someone on the forum wrote something'. I am pretty sure that Apple just uses standard texture filtering. The notion of 'hardware support' is a misnomer anyway, nowadays most things run via the shader units - GPUs do not contain any specialised 'scaling' units - what would be the purpose of that? And FYI, Ivy Bridge and up later GPUs officially support 4K output resolutions.
 
Since Mavericks they somehow fixed all the scrolling lag issue in any apps, especially those are made by Apple like Mail, Appstore .. I also notice that in all the Adobe softwares the scrolling in long list of fonts, tools, options is buttery smooth too. The same goes for scrolling heavy content in apps. This is my experience. I know that there are ppl with scrolling lag issue out there even with Mavericks but it's not on all of the machines.
 
kittencounter said:
Since Mavericks they somehow fixed all the scrolling lag issue in any apps, especially those are made by Apple like Mail, Appstore .. I also notice that in all the Adobe softwares the scrolling in long list of fonts, tools, options is buttery smooth too. The same goes for scrolling heavy content in apps. This is my experience. I know that there are ppl with scrolling lag issue out there even with Mavericks but it's not on all of the machines.
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13 or 15? Which model precisely? (ram, proc, with(out) dGPU?)
 
I'm actually returning a 15 inch retina (fully loaded) tonight for this very same reason and believe me, it makes me really sad. I followed the "waiting for Haswell" thread for months and picked up my shiny new (and first ever) Macbook Pro. But when I scroll, it'll be smooth...smooth...and then at the end of the scroll it becomes choppy. Some websites are worse than others but after staring at a screen for 10 hours a day, it becomes really annoying.

I might try the new Dell touch 15...it's just so embarrassing to be the only guy with a Dell at a tech meet up group....

I will say that in the past 3 days something has changed and Safari is scrolling smoother. So I'm hopeful that this will be improved on soon.

I really want to keep this computer!!
 
thekoch said:
I'm actually returning a 15 inch retina (fully loaded) tonight for this very same reason and believe me, it makes me really sad. I followed the "waiting for Haswell" thread for months and picked up my shiny new (and first ever) Macbook Pro. But when I scroll, it'll be smooth...smooth...and then at the end of the scroll it becomes choppy. Some websites are worse than others but after staring at a screen for 10 hours a day, it becomes really annoying.

I might try the new Dell touch 15...it's just so embarrassing to be the only guy with a Dell at a tech meet up group....

I will say that in the past 3 days something has changed and Safari is scrolling smoother. So I'm hopeful that this will be improved on soon.

I really want to keep this computer!!
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Hmmm... this sounds so odd. I got the fully spec'ed 15" and have mine set to the highest resolution. Not one issue with scrolling or yellowing. Give me an example of a website with this issue?

edit: Just went to yahoo.com and scrolled all the way to the bottom. At certain stages, there was a 'jump'. Don't tell me this is what you guys are talking about because that's normal.
 
The one thing I'm sort of wondering is a lot of this scroll lag... Is it an actual fully loaded page, or a page... Like Facebook, which incrementally makes requests to load more data on the page the farther you scroll down. Depending on your network latency, requesting data from a database all has a time-penalty... Think of when you try to load any website, it's not instant. So I'm curious if a lot of these seen symptoms are actually just that and not the hardware?

Another thing is when people then compare to a desktop computer, you're also using a scroll wheel with a fixed incremental distance, as opposed to slightly more variable via the touch pad.

Just some thoughts....
 
SuperCop said:
The one thing I'm sort of wondering is a lot of this scroll lag... Is it an actual fully loaded page, or a page... Like Facebook, which incrementally makes requests to load more data on the page the farther you scroll down. Depending on your network latency, requesting data from a database all has a time-penalty... Think of when you try to load any website, it's not instant. So I'm curious if a lot of these seen symptoms are actually just that and not the hardware?

Another thing is when people then compare to a desktop computer, you're also using a scroll wheel with a fixed incremental distance, as opposed to slightly more variable via the touch pad.

Just some thoughts....
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That was my point exactly - can't blame apple for that - it's the site.
 
its more of a stutter....not a jump. It's like the frame rate suddenly decreases. A dramatic example is theverge.com. I think it also bothers some people and not others.
 
The Verge does something weird with images. When disabling images, the site is really smooth. I have the feeling that the slowdown comes from loading/caching the images.
 
phentex said:
Got the i7 8Gb SSD512 13" rMBP fall 2013 version : any gfx processing software (LR, PS) cries for higher res than the "recommended for retina" setting. So I use the first upscale setting above the recommended default setting :

Lightroom 5.2 64bits : awful lag once a dozen local corrections or a couple of gradient settings have be applied. PinchToZoom with the touchpad is absolutely horrible

Photoshop CS6 64bits : PinchToZoom / pan / scroll is a bit less stuttery, but far from perfect.

Safari : lags / stutters like hell on any webpage with a fair amount of pictures (facebook, google+, any blog / news website actually)


Sure the screen is brilliant, sur I COULD say OK the stutters and lags are bareable.... but at 2K€ the go, there is NO excuse. Appalling for a premium device. Appalling from Apple even more.
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With a bunch of local corrections in Lr, or adjustment layers/smart objects in Ps, I really don't see much, if any, difference between the scaled modes, Best for Retina, or even 1440x900 (no HiDPI). All lag equally badly despite resolution (or even OS, Lr is just as laggy on Windows).

Maybe Photoshop CC has some performance improvements over Photoshop CS6 that make our user experiences different? I don't recall noticing a difference switching from CS6 to CC, but I switched to CC right after getting the rMBP, so my experience running CS6 on it is admittedly quite limited.

And yes, I should have been more specific in my post, it should have said no extra lag introduced by HiDPI modes...
 
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Either Apple cannot fix them (which is probably the issue here)

or they wont, which makes no sense

or they don't care, which definitely isn't positive either

or they're VERY slow


Either way, it's probably not gonna get fixed, people said "ohh, it will be fixed within 2 weeks, go ahead and buy a Retina!".. well, its still here.. is it a major deal breaker? no.. but lagging while scrolling doesn't really seem to fit a 4k$ laptop.
 
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