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Will Apple get rid of the touchbar with the arrival of ARM Macbooks?
- Thread starter senttoschool
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Don't expect them to, they likely would have done it with the 16" if they were going to as they were already changing the configuration to add back the esc key. While they were working on this they will probably have considered whether to drop the TB altogether.
I'm willing to bet that the majority don't find it useful and a decent portion actively hate it.
Let's get rid of it. Longer battery life. Cheaper price. Better user experience. Let's do it Apple.
No one can accurately measure it. But it's another display that requires another chip to power it.
I don’t think it’ll make much of a difference in overall battery life. Don’t think anyone has measured it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
How have they actually perfected it? Since 2016, Apple never mentioned TB at all. Never.
Only change they actually did was bringing back ESC key. So they have perfected it by 'inventing' a real, physical ESC key? Imagine the perfection if they replace entire TB with physical keys then. It would be revolutionary and magical
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The only thing I hated about the TouchBar was the lack of a physical escape button. Now that they have added that back I see no issues. I very much enjoy using it for development using IDEs and video editing. Plus, you can bring back the old layout when you need to.
My problem is that time to time I randomly touch touchbar with my fingers. Touchbar buttons work instantly. If you miss positioned your finger on physical key, but didn't press it, it doesn't work. But touchbar is different. It works the same moment you touch the surface. And it spoils the whole feelings about workflow on my MacBook.
It’s just one tap and a slide for both volume and brightness. Interestingly enough, I learned it from someone who, I assumed, didn‘t know what the heck they were doing.
I was showing them how the TouchBar worked and they didn’t tap, then tap again, they just left their finger down and slid it.It’s just one tap and a slide for both volume and brightness. Interestingly enough, I learned it from someone who, I assumed, didn‘t know what the heck they were doing.
Oh, I just tried this. It actually worked. Thanks!
It's just not intuitive though. I would not expect that I can just slide on the button itself because, say... I can move the button all the way to the far right, and at that point, there would not be enough room to "slide up" per se.
So it's still not intuitive and very annoying to perform. Tapping a button is still far faster.
Yeah I experienced that too. Took me about 2 weeks to get used to not touching it.
Now with arm ...it will be even easier for Apple to bring all chips into one ARM ...there will be no arm chip for touchbar, no T2...but just one 5nm ARM chip that has it all...so touchbar will stay i think, but apple must make it by default the same way the bettertouchtools works
I discovered this on the second day and still thought it was an inferior experience to physical volume buttons. The main reason is that when you're sliding, you have to be more careful than button presses. In turn, you have to use slightly more brainpower and fine motor skill to change the volume. Over time, this gets annoying.It’s just one tap and a slide for both volume and brightness. Interestingly enough, I learned it from someone who, I assumed, didn‘t know what the heck they were doing.
In addition, it still doesn't solve the issue of having to look down to change the volume.
I don’t have a problem with the touchbar anymore after apple decided to put the physical escape key back to where it belongs. So I’m planning to upgrade my 2018 13” macbook pro to the upcoming 14” macbook pro and I’m pretty sure the physical escape key will be there too.
More precisely, I think the touchbar was pushed to counter the fact that most high-end PC laptops now have full touchscreens - and Apple's policy has been that "touch screens don't work on a laptop because 'gorilla arms'" (which is valid if you stick your head in a bucket and ignore the 2-in-1 'convertible' concept, or the MS Surface Studio concept).
So, I think the day the touchbar will die is the day that Apple relents and starts making Macs with touchscreens (frankly, they're occasionally useful and most Mac-comparable PCs have them as standard, so it's getting a bit indefensible).
Meanwhile, the ARM MacBook is still just a rumour, but most of those rumours point to the first machines being 12" MacBook/MacBook Air-type ultra-portables - replacing machines that don't have touchbars anyway. They could go with touchscreens/Pencil support - especially if they're pitched as an iPad/Mac "bridge" product (support for existing iPad software would need a touchscreen and could be a useful sweetener for the transition period).
We've seen Apple's response to the touchbar criticism so far: keep it on the Pro models, but restore the physical "esc" key (the 16" MBP) and keep it as a distinction fron the non-Pro models (the new MBA) - while the solution for desktop users is to use an iDevice running Sidecar. Some effort went in to re-designing the touchbar for the 16" MBP - if the touchbar was on the way out I think the 16"would have dropped it.
Don't necessarily agree on their reasoning for introducing it, and I also was one of the haters from the start - primarily in knowing it added cost for something I don't want, need or use, and worse - negatively impacted my workflows without a physical ESC key. I'm sure it was one of Ives' 'last bangs' in making a mediocrity of the entire 2016-2018/9 lineup with the 'bravery' of removing all ports, while thinner devices such as surface books could still manage an HDMI connector, etc.
I doubt the new ARM 'macbook' will have it at launch, regardless of it's final disposition - the Air and iMacs don't, and I'd expect their first offering to be a MacBook Air. Getting Pros to move, unless they are having a TON of developer conversation in the background, will be a longer haul prospect. Even with emulation of x86 - many of us have specific needs and software stacks, even before we get to the use of VMs (x86-based, of course). Yes, some of us 'could' run ARM distress of Linux in the VMs, but Win10? We're running VMs collectively for development and research/R&D purposes, as well as for when there's a lack in Mac software in some cases, so making that lack of software grow even further might be a death knell for some 'pros' leaving the platform.
I'm unsure where this winds up - an ARM MacBook air and lower end models makes a lot of sense, where it's typical office applications or web-based apps.. could suffice easily for a fair sized group of people, but then again - this also likely is a pretty high intersection of those able to use an iPad as a 'replacement laptop,' outside of creatives at least where the iPad/pencil input is mandatory for them. Once you move to the other 'pro' users - things get rougher. Maybe the top end pros will cut a deal with either AMD or Intel and provide a native x86 CPU as a co-processor dedicate to running x86 programs. That's not a great $ proposition but it's also possible 'sell a good # guaranteed at a lower cost, or sell nothing' is being discussed if being looked at. Of course, this would require a fair amount hardware and OS rework - and wouldn't be anyone's first choice when hit with 'let's build an ARM laptop!', but it may be forced, unless the ARM chips are specifically engineered to be more efficient at x86 emulation - but this may be no small task, as RICS (ARM) vs CISC(x86) and their general thermal efficiencies are very different. Note - it's entirely possible I'm off on this, as I used to be a lot deeper into CPU and system architectures, but it's not something I have spare time to keep up on anymore, but the end result and problem remains - many 'typical' users won't be impacted much by the move to ARM, and might even appreciate e.g. a 24 hour battery life, but a good portion of 'pro level' users/buyers - depend directly in some fashion on x86, including the usage of VMs.
I do recall the move from PPC to x86, and it was painful and caused uproar by many, but in reality PPC mac users didn't really have the option of spinning up x86 VMs to continue to improve their capability 'on a single system' - there was some emulation, but slow and not akin to the many of us running VirtualBox, Fusion, etc. today on Macs on x86. As a result, those 'pros' requiring that either need to be addressed in a sane (i.e. not a Johnny Ive brushoff nonsense about 'bravery' ) fashion, but one that allows us to continue at least at the levels of productivity we're at today, which includes x86-based VMs.
Should get interesting. Depending on how it goes, expect MANY MR users and Apple fanboys to go on telling some of us how we don't 'need' x86 VMs, just like 'none of you need 32/64GB on a MacBook pro' and other fun. For Apple's sake, I hope they do a well-planned, slow roll transition, and don't ignore those with specific needs in the 'pro' category.
I’d never obtained the muscle memory for changing the volume by keys, but interestingly, it just occurred to me that I DO have muscle memory for the TouchBar volume! LOL I have a friend that must have the volume on all their devices at an even number, and if I were like them, I’m sure the TouchBar’s lack of precision would drive me batty. And, if it were removed, I’d miss that action (especially if I had to hit volume and brightness multiple times to get the same effect).
I think Microsoft has gone Apple’s way on this as they no longer support HDMI without a dongle, though.
True on the last sentence, although I have a USB-A on my Dell surface book clone perhaps a year old, which is certainly thinner than the base of the MBPs claiming 'we can't do this.'
The problem there is Apple being misleading saying 'can't' versus something more honest (e.g. 'we don't want to and don't care about what users want'). Its the same game they play when their lineup hardware is dated - distract on something else, until they eventually correct the issue. Not bashing Apple (much) on this point, but cumulatively I voted with my own $ - wanted to buy a new MBP but they had nothing I would give them money for until the MBP16 which corrected many of my gripes since 2016..which cost them $ as I planned to buy a MBP in 2016 from them, but instead bought a used 2015MBP at the time.
I'm hoping the same does not happen on any planned ARM MacBook rollout. My wife just got a new MBA so is good for a few years, with mostly office and we software for her needs, so she fits in the likely MBA ARM category of users that can be satisfied there, and may even benefit from the move. I'll be stuck waiting along with others on what they do with the true 'pro' lineup where x86 VMs and head to head (vs 86) in more than benchmarks, as well as software investments and specific software availability - matters quite a bit.
Not including USB-A is not because they can’t, it’s because, just like with the iMac, they won’t. Since the iMacs without legacy ports, they’ve been about doing what they want to do. Fortunately, anyone happy with a recent MacBook will likely be fine as it’s not like they can remove more ports (maybe headphone?).
They made some micro-adjustments to the TB's location, reducing the chance that it could be triggered by accident. Also, they added back the ESC key — therefore addressing the most common (and justified) complaint with the old design.
Now you are just being ridiculous. TB has been ubiquitously mentioned during each and every WWDC since 2016 and every iteration of macOS has brought some new TB APIs. All major software shipping for Mac supports TB in this or other fashion.
By your logic Apple is soon to cancel WiFi or Bluetooth because they don't mention it at every waking moment.
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A side of the MacBook Pro 16" is 6mm high. A USB-A connector is 4mm high. A USB-C connector is 1mm high. These are the hard numbers. How are you going to fit a 4mm hole into a 6mm aluminium sheet with any hopes of it being structurally stable? Yes, they could do it by abandoning the tapered design, but that is a different point altogether.
Users want multi-purpose future-proof modern connectors, not deprecated ones.
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There are enough downsides to the touch bar that it should be an option for those who need/want it in their workflow. I would rather have a physical function keys personally and do not appreciate how it represents a step forward in productivity for most users. I also think it is a far inferior alternative to an actual touch screen, which may lead to its removal if one is ever put out.