Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Will Apple Keep the Lead?

NO - it aint the same world as it was....

Everyone is talking about market share for Apple and then coming up against the fact that there seems no way to break Windows dominance.

But things are changing and moving in subtle ways.

The music industry is in turmoil over the ability of consumers to swap music in various ways for free - but Apple came up with a way to persuade consumers to pay a small amount for their music.

Apple is heading down a strange road called 'innovation' and so far it hasnt translated into market share, BUT M$ is looking stale and old. Their model of licensing everything and owning everything will crumble - empires always do crumble.

So Apple is a niche company? As long as it continues to create healthy partnerships with others this will not matter.

Lets see: Apple dominates Art, Film, Graphics, Music. Best OS around, bar none.
Slowly being picked up by the tedious but necessary corporate server market.

OSX is the Unix that Linux could not become.

Like others here, I feel that computers would be a drag without Apple - I might really return to Pen and Paper if Apple didnt exist.

It wont happen, and there are only good signs and good trends for the future.
 
For me I could care less about a 2 percent market share or 20 percent. The only major concern I have is can I do what I want on a Mac? I would hate to see it be the day where I had to run VPC for 98% of the programs I need. IMHO, it isn't so much the programs as it is the web. Something that should be platform independant is starting to become much less so. I think this should be a federal crime and I am not kidding.

Anyway, I hope Apple does look at keeping market share in certain areas like the iPod. Steve is more mature now and able to run a company or two.
 
Its all figures so heres some facts

at present we have products that stand out that are usefull and that in some cases are free.....

We have all in one systems many say they dont like them bull**** to that. The all in one systems yes may look a bit out of place but id rather have one of those over a pc with cables all over the place.


Diffrent Markets. iTunes/iPod/P2P/ RIAA

THINK WERE Apple has taken that little area now...


its like people have said bmw jaguar etc companys that have big names dont always have big market share at all. in most cases they dont need too.

In the end if the end product pleases you then you should be happy 🙂
 
Originally posted by Photorun
Still of "boutique" machines don't communicate with the rest of the world what's the point? With M$ dictating almost all standards across the industry (mind you, crappy standards, championing mediocrity) it'd be easy to make Mac part of it's own insular experience and thus a potential downward spiral.

I refute the BMW metaphor, at one time it was cute, now it's stupid to use and people should be flogged, it's like saying chocolate survives in the food world (if you said "huh" precisely). BMW doesn't regulate the rest of the auto industry with lackluster components (the analogy would be better if you used GM or Fiat, some crappy company as M$). BMW can't be driven out (pardon pun) Chevy decided to make some crappy roof deployed airbag standard (that wouldn't work during most crashes). It's a different industry and a lousy analogy.

Reality is Apple DOES need market share, it DOES need acceptance in major industries it DOES need acceptance in education and elsewhere. I had a meeting the other week and I expunged some vitues of Macs to a bunch of older idiots, some who thought Macs were only good for graphics, another who didn't know Macs were around anymore, it was nuts. Point is this mentality gets more and more pervasive (bet these people wouldn't have said such things about a BMW, which most covet and/or see as a icon that someone has money or style) and unless Apple does things to impress upon the industry, public, and world in general... nothing really matters long long term.
Click to expand...

If Apple can be compatible with MS, then I don't see the beef with a boutique operation or a niche market for Apple computers.

The majority of programs work on both a Mac and a PC with the exception of games. There are obviously some notable standouts but *most* programs are already on a Mac and corss-platform compatible.

As for communication, I just don't follow, it's a myth. Agreed, it's a myth that makes widespread adoption of Macs a hurdle but I personally think that it's far easier to network a Mac than a PC. It was easier for me setup my Mac to talk over my corporate network with the PC's than it was to configure those PC's to talk with each other.

I guess I just don't understand what you're talking about in terms of lack of communication with the rest of the world. That sounds like PC propaganda to me. Someone please set me straight if I am wrong.
 
Originally posted by Awimoway
I personally know of converts to the computers line that the iPod is making. Even so much as 10-15% marketshare seems to me like an impossible mirage, anymore. Maybe I'm just too jaded from desperately hoping. But surely OS marketshare has got to improve as a result of the iPod.
Click to expand...


10-15% may be pushing it for now.
(Note that nothing I say comes from anything I know, just what I guess at from my dark room within this windowless house).

Apples doesn't market to mass type writer style machines that sit in office buildings. they are more of the professional or home use style machine. and while this would only be a guess, I'm betting that a very LARGE % of the market resides in PCs that live their whole lives in sky scrapers (it scares me to think how many windows machines are in those buildings).

so while I don't know what % of computers are "dumb" computers used for bussiness, it is probably still above %50, and maybe a bit higher. But when Apple is only TRYING (currently) to sell to 10-30% of the market, it may be high hopes to think they will capture 10-15% (or 50%-100% of the market they are actually looking at) in the near future.

obviously things are changing, computers are becoming an "at home" macchine as well as something to use at work, so that percentage will start to flip flop.

Someone mentioned above that Apple needs a large market share so that they can control the market (or better yet, keep microsoft from controling the market). I think though that they wouldn't need a large market share, they would just need to be sitting inside 75% of every house hold. As long as the corporate heads come home and check their mail on a Mac, and have their kids asking for the latest Apple software, then it wouldn't matter if the average bussiness man has to go to work the next day and use a windose machine just because it's cheap and gets the job done.

anyone care to submit some numbers to either help me feel sane, or to completely disprove what I said?

-Tyler
-Earendil
 
Someone correct me on this,

But I recently heard a quote from an Apple exec that i liked: "If you control all the niches, you control all the market." I can't remember who said it, but I love it. With the introduction of OS X, Apple has moved onto the radar of the most programmers as a viable, even desirable (when's the last time you heard of a Dell laptop as an object of techno-lust? Or a ThinkPd?) platform, and with the G5, the technical/scientific world is taking notice as well, especially since the rollout of Big Mac at Va. Tech.

What's lacking is a commodity box, where the real market share numbers are to be had. Churning out vanilla boxen for call centers and cube farms would kill the reputation for design and quality that Apple has strugggled to create over the last 6 years.

Apple sets the tune that the other companies dance to. Look at all the metal-colored WinTel laptops that have sprung up in the wake of the G4 Powerboook and the wannabe iPods and wannabe iTMS's (Anyone want to place bets on whether buymusic.com lasts through this year or not? 🙂 ).

Apple *is* leading the pack, just not in terms of units sold. In terms of mindshare, brand awareness, and profit margins, they are way ahead of the rest of the field.
 
The Right Model and the Wrong Time?

Perhaps Apple originally had the wrong business model. Since personal computers were a new invention with great utility, the ability to satisfy market demand of the growth industry would require a model similar to Microsoft. Get the product to the people cheaply and fast.

Now, however, we are moving from a growth market for PCs to a more mature market. The model now focuses on upgrading. Companies and people have enough hardware power for most uses. The software is largely powerful enough.

In a more mature market, perhaps differentiation and quality hold greater force. The market becomes less focused on low cost and more focused on quality. (If your really hungry you will eat anything. If you eat often, you start to want to eat well.) Thus, as the industry moves into a more mature stage, the upgrade/quality model will be a stronger model. There will be strong markets for low cost products, but there will be greater demand for higher quality products as well.

Apples business model of designing great software to sell quality hardware may be a better model for a more mature industry.
 
Apple is ahead at the moment, in terms of techonology and popularity, but it is unlikelty that the next generation iPod's will support Benson Connectors, at least I haven't seen it reported.

All the newer portable media devices will be supporting this new socket type, and i think that if Apple do not support it, they will be left behind when it comes to FM tuners and other adapters. Unfortunately, by the time next-next-genertion ipods come out supporting Benson sockets, it will be too late 🙁
 
Originally posted by alset
Steve was destroying Apple. He may have saved them from certain doom, but his ousting wasn't the cause of turmoil. If that were the case, we would expect that every company he touched would come out ahead. As we saw with NeXT, Steve was not then prepared to lead a corporation.Dan
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but saying that a person who is CEO material will ALWAYS have the Midas touch, no matter what, is just ridiculous. I'm certain there are stories, time and time again, where a person takes many business ventures before hitting the right place, product and time for the people. There is a certain amount of luck involved, but you can't fault Jobs because NeXT didn't go over. It just wasn't right. There were people who took on Apple who had been very successful at other corporations but couldn't get Apple into the Black. Are you kicking them in the teeth?

Jobs has shown with Apple and Pixar that he certainly knows how to run a company or two. And not just "recently". Look at both of those companies and tell us that the companies did not do an immediate ABOUT FACE the moment Steve Jobs came on. Right... I didn't think so.
 
I think that alset has it correct with "Apple and Lemons." It is about qualit vs. quanity. Apple and Steve are working very hard to build a very strong foundation on which to build for the future.
 
Apple vs Windows

You know, this comparison has always bugged me. "Apple has only x% of the market share compared to windows machines, look at how poorly they are doing!" Its as if all the windows companies work together and share money, as if they are just one company that uses lots of different names. I would like to see, instead of Apple's % vs Window's %, Apple's % vs Dell's % vs Gateway's % vs HP's % vs etc etc. This shouldn't just be done with sales from the previous year, either. Most people I know who buy an Apple keep it for longer than the Windows people I know keep their computers. Would need a gallop poll or something, asking people how many and what computers they have (not counting the ones in the basement collecting dust)

Just my .02
 
Originally posted by chabig
...He has plenty of money. Owning more shares of stock wouldn't make a difference to him, because Apple is not about money for him. It's his personal battle against the world.
Click to expand...
"... personal 'battle against the world'"? I must say DUH to this statement. How do you know what his motivations are? You don't know him. To hear you say it, it sounds like he has a personal mission to crush every other computer company in the world. THAT sounds more like Gates that it ever sounded like Jobs.

At MS, the deadline of the product is GOD. At Apple, it's the product. One is aimed at mass attack at swift and timed intervals. The other is just about trying to put out cool stuff no matter if it goes over deadline.

Sure, with the kind of money Jobs has, he no longer HAS to do it for the money. But what about having personal goals? Aspiring to be your very best regardless of money or other NEGATIVE reasons ("battle against all others")...

My father is 70 and in 2 years will hit 50 years of working for Union Pacific Railroad. Does he need the money? No. He could have retired a long time ago, but he wants to achieve this illusive goal. Not many people can say they've worked for a place for half a century. He's doing for his own personal satisfaction of achievement. I totally respect him for this.

Jobs has his own personal goals and they don't all seem to be being King of the World.
 
Originally posted by macnews
IMHO, it isn't so much the programs as it is the web. Something that should be platform independant is starting to become much less so. I think this should be a federal crime and I am not kidding.
Click to expand...

No kidding. This is why it matters a great deal for Apple to get its market share up. I can't use lexisnexis for research because none of the Mac browsers can deal with the IE/Windows-specific features on the site, and calling them to complain about it is a waste of time ("We don't have many users who are on Macs. Right now we suggest that you buy a PC").

The same thing is now happening in other areas. DVDs that come with "PC-enhanced" features rely on that horrible "PCFriendly" thing from InterActual, which does not have a Mac version that will play all of the DVD-ROM content. (I'm not talking about some pathetic web pages linked from the DVD. I mean things like having the script running side by side with the movie so you can see how the directors and the actors changed things during the shoot, or like interactive storyboards.) I pay good money for these DVDs because of the extra features only to find out that I have to boot up my old Win98 PC to use them. Until Apple moves more machines this situation is only going to get worse.
 
When I think about how much I love OS X, mainly because it's got Unix under the hood, I shudder to think about the days of defending the Mac OS pre-OS X. Back then, without products such as TOPS (anybody remember that one), DAVE, PCMACLAN and MS Office (oh wow), Mac would have been nowhere when it came to playing nice with Windows. But the products were there because of people like you and me-- people who liked the Mac better and made a market because of it.

Not playing nice with Windows, well, it just didn't matter. At least it didn't matter to those of us who saw superior productivity in our day-to-day lives, and could figure out ways around interoperating with Windows when we had to. We always found a way to make it work.

We could choose our platform without having to subordinate our own thinking to the mass opinion. Of course, we often had to fight the mass to do it-- and still have to fight them. But the point is that we did it because we found the Mac products to be superior. Sure, there are entire market segments where Apple just doesn't have a offering. But this has never been a deal-killer for those not in those markets.

So, will Apple keep the lead? What lead? With people out there willing to buy the product, who cares?

For me, as long as Apple makes a product that helps me do my job, and that product has been as well thought out as Apple tries to do, they've got my business. The second their product becomes a just like all the others, or worse, I'm gone.

Lastly, what does Apple have to say on this matter? Just check out their Mission Statement:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357&p=irol-faq#corpinfo2

Quote: Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Apple is committed to bringing the best personal computing experience to students, educators, creative professionals and consumers around the world through its innovative hardware, software and Internet offerings.

Hmmm... doesn't say anything about chasing corporate market-share in there.
 
OLEDs

when will we see OLED displays in ipods (and in cinema displays)? i keep hearing about the technology, and it sounds wonderful. i have yet to see it. any thoughts?
 
Originally posted by macnews
For me I could care less about a 2 percent market share or 20 percent. The only major concern I have is can I do what I want on a Mac?
Click to expand...
The problem is that, unless you are a developer, virtually everything you do on your Mac involves applications created by other people, and developers might not be interested in developing, porting, and/or maintaining applications on a platform with 2% marketshare.
 
Apple has been moving to a new level since Steve returned. OS X, iPod, TMS, Keynote, etc. Now, with IBM performing, they are moving from the Moto drag on performance. I wouldn't be surprised that a year from now the PC mags will be having a hard time finding a benchmark where a PC is faster than a PM - which is going to change a lot more opinions on what will be the next computer purchased.

I think Apple is therefore in a very strong position for a solid, profitable future. Market share is going to improve, but companies like Packard Bell have proved that market share is not a guarantee of success.

Ever since the G5 was announced I have felt that Apple was going to have a hell of a year - or two - and things ARE going very well for them. Doubt if there are very many PC companies that are as happy as Apple these days - even the ones that are rushing to copy them.

It's also a sign of a good year when the message boards are full of speculation on what will be announced in Steve's next keynote speech. Is there another CEO keynote speech that gets as much attention on the boards AND news? Is there another company that has as much potential for announcing new innovative products?
 
Re: Will Apple Keep the Lead?

Originally posted by Macrumors
The New York Post writes ... "If you look at where Apple was a few short years ago and where they are today, it's nothing short of phenomenal."
Click to expand...
Apple's Mac line has both a solid OS and hardware line simultaneously just as the economy is turning up and people and businesses are interested in upgrading their computers purchased before the stock bubble popped.

Countries around the world are setting policy that discourages them from buying Microsoft products. This should open the doors for Apple, create a greater diversity of applications, and promote documented and open standards for data formats.

The success of Linux is causing a lot of companies to consider something other than Microsoft. Mac OS X runs most Linux applications. And in the growing segment of compute farms, MacOS and Mac hardware are relatively well positioned (remember VaTech).

With Apple's success with iPod, iTunes, and iTMS, not to mention iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD, Apple is attracting a lot of interest in the press. I doubt any company beats Apple's Press/Marketshare ratio.

Finally, Apple is reasserting its strength in the creative arts arena (e.g., Final Cut Pro), and Apple is broadening its revenue stream with the iPod, iTMS (which will eventually be profitable), and professional applications. Apple is no longer a one product company.

All in all, Apple is in its best position in years -- perhaps the best since 1995.
 
Re: OLEDs

Originally posted by appleface
when will we see OLED displays in ipods (and in cinema displays)? i keep hearing about the technology, and it sounds wonderful. i have yet to see it. any thoughts?
Click to expand...

My guess would be not for awhile. Possibly a year or two, wouldn't be surprised at all if it was more. Don't expect them out soon, though.
 
Re: OLEDs

Originally posted by appleface
when will we see OLED displays in ipods (and in cinema displays)? i keep hearing about the technology, and it sounds wonderful. i have yet to see it. any thoughts?
Click to expand...

last i heard, OLED's are expected to be included in several cell phones (only in japan probably) by early 2004, so we should expect them sometime maybe late summer in a couple of fhones and random other devices (video ipod??) but i doubt they will make their way into displays because the price and there idint a real need for them in a home display (yet)
 
In one way, we're preaching to the converted here. WE know that macs are the best things *including* sliced bread.

Getting others to realized that general productivity software (Word,PPT, Excel) is available for both etc. will yield a larger consumer marketshare. I talk to people every day (stupid people mind you) that say, "Oh, i never liked macs, they never had any of my software like Word and stuff."

Word is available!!
Also, "and Stuff" is what Apple does best!!

New product release - iStuff!
 
Re: OLEDs

Originally posted by appleface
when will we see OLED displays in ipods (and in cinema displays)? i keep hearing about the technology, and it sounds wonderful. i have yet to see it. any thoughts?
Click to expand...

OLED's have a lifespan problem compared to LCD's. The techies are still trying to make them last the many thousands of hours needed for most consumer electronics.

But since cellphones have about the highest obsolescence rate of any consumer electronic item that needs a colour screen they WILL show up there soon.
 
Originally posted by wsdr
When I think about how much I love OS X, mainly because it's got Unix under the hood, I shudder to think about the days of defending the Mac OS pre-OS X. Back then, without products such as TOPS (anybody remember that one), DAVE, PCMACLAN and MS Office (oh wow), Mac would have been nowhere when it came to playing nice with Windows. But the products were there because of people like you and me-- people who liked the Mac better and made a market because of it.

Not playing nice with Windows, well, it just didn't matter. At least it didn't matter to those of us who saw superior productivity in our day-to-day lives, and could figure out ways around interoperating with Windows when we had to. We always found a way to make it work.

We could choose our platform without having to subordinate our own thinking to the mass opinion. Of course, we often had to fight the mass to do it-- and still have to fight them. But the point is that we did it because we found the Mac products to be superior. Sure, there are entire market segments where Apple just doesn't have a offering. But this has never been a deal-killer for those not in those markets.

So, will Apple keep the lead? What lead? With people out there willing to buy the product, who cares?

For me, as long as Apple makes a product that helps me do my job, and that product has been as well thought out as Apple tries to do, they've got my business. The second their product becomes a just like all the others, or worse, I'm gone.

Lastly, what does Apple have to say on this matter? Just check out their Mission Statement:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357&p=irol-faq#corpinfo2

Quote: Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Apple is committed to bringing the best personal computing experience to students, educators, creative professionals and consumers around the world through its innovative hardware, software and Internet offerings.

Hmmm... doesn't say anything about chasing corporate market-share in there.
Click to expand...

To quote Apple's mission statement and use it to say their not interested in chasing corporate market share is naive.

Hell, MS says this at their site:
Microsoft's mission: To enable people and businesses throughout the world to realize their full potential.

Nothing about dominating the market and standards there.
 
Re: Re: Will Apple Keep the Lead?

Originally posted by JoeRadar
Apple's Mac line has both a solid OS and hardware line simultaneously just as the economy is turning up and people and businesses are interested in upgrading their computers purchased before the stock bubble popped.
Click to expand...
You're preaching to the choir here. Sadly, the myths of Apple and the Mac are still very pervasive. Ask some non technical (hell, even some technical ) people about Apple and Macs. You'll likely get they're too expensive, they're going out of business, there is no software for Macs, they're for creative people only and all the other crap that is out there.

Apple can make all the great hardware and software they want. Until they begin to do something about this, market share will likely remain under 3 or 4%.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back