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Will Rosetta be included in Lion?

@zap2 - You say it's not unreasonable to drop support for an old architecture after five years, nevermind the perfectly good software still capable of running on it. The thing is...Apple is in a league of its own on this one. I've not run into a similar issue with Windows or Linux. Sure, programs that came out in 1998 are a bit finicky on a Windows 7 machine, but with the compatibility mode, I'm surprised at all the things that still function natively on the Windows 7 machine. I recently installed and played 'The Last Express', a game released in 1997 and didn't even have to bother with compatibility mode. Now, Mac OS and Windows are apples and oranges - I get it. It would just be nice if I could run a few productivity programs I purchased in 2005 without having to do it in a virtual machine. That's all I'm saying. Rosetta was the answer for that.

Mac OS 9 and X were vastly different, and if you wanted to push a new operating system, you had to get people off of OS 9. However, what would hurt by allowing OS X users access to older programs? We're still buying Macs and we're still running the latest version of the OS. Why penalize us? In the early 2000s, people were actively avoiding OS X and opting for 9. Apple had to pull those customers back in by dropping support. Today, how many people are clinging to their G4s with no intention to upgrade because Apple changed its architecture. Not many, I'm sure.
 
I'll probably install Lion on my MacBook Air for giggles, and pick up a used Mini to run Snow Leopard with my 21" Cinema Display for PowerPC software I'm not willing to spend $Hundreds to replace:
  • Adobe Creative Suite CS
  • MS Office 2004
  • Rosetta Stone and other Spanish apps
  • Pages '05

I'm the kind of person who will drive a car for 20 years (I have). I used my PowerMac 6100/66 Dos Compatible from 1993 to 2005, when I finally gave up my System 7 and DOS apps. If something works for me, I keep using it. I still use my PowerBook because I'm not willing to buy new versions of these OS 9 apps, and OS X apps that don't run well under Rosetta:

OS 9
  • Mathematica
  • VectorWorks
  • Quark XPress
  • Doom II
  • Troubled Souls
  • A-10 Cuba
  • F-18 Hornet

OS X on PowerBook
  • Macromedia Studio MX 2004
  • Maya
  • iWork '05 (Pages runs in Rosetta but Keynote doesn't)
 
Mr. Mellow said:
I'll probably install Lion on my MacBook Air for giggles, and pick up a used Mini to run Snow Leopard with my 21" Cinema Display for PowerPC software I'm not willing to spend $Hundreds to replace:
  • Adobe Creative Suite CS
  • MS Office 2004
  • Rosetta Stone and other Spanish apps
  • Pages '05

I'm the kind of person who will drive a car for 20 years (I have). I used my PowerMac 6100/66 Dos Compatible from 1993 to 2005, when I finally gave up my System 7 and DOS apps. If something works for me, I keep using it. I still use my PowerBook because I'm not willing to buy new versions of these OS 9 apps, and OS X apps that don't run well under Rosetta:

OS 9
  • Mathematica
  • VectorWorks
  • Quark XPress
  • Doom II
  • Troubled Souls
  • A-10 Cuba
  • F-18 Hornet

OS X on PowerBook
  • Macromedia Studio MX 2004
  • Maya
  • iWork '05 (Pages runs in Rosetta but Keynote doesn't)
Click to expand...

Why not pick up an old G5 tower, it'll probably be faster than an intel mini for PowerPC apps, and it might be cheaper too.
 
This is one of the reasons I wouldn't upgrade right away. Just be patient as someone is bound to release a Rosetta emulator as there are fully functional emulators to run all Mac software going back to System 6 (vMac for 6 to 7.5.1 and SheepSaver for 7.5.2 through all of 9).
 
The way Lion and its Frameworks are programmed, it looks like the only way to have Rosetta will be to run Snow Leopard in a VM.
 
I'm stuck with...

...Quicken 2007. Intuit still hasn't released a feature-parity version of Quicken that's native Intel. Quicken Essentials is a complete joke. This might finally push me away from Quicken after 17 years of use... or just stick w/Snow Leopard.

Of course, it wouldn't a Quicken complaint without noting that Bill Campbell, Chairman of Intuit is still on the Apple board...
 
Riemann Zeta said:
The way Lion and its Frameworks are programmed, it looks like the only way to have Rosetta will be to run Snow Leopard in a VM.
Click to expand...

Isn't there any Chance someone is going to mack a workaround or something to run Rosetta Apps in Loin?

I need Freehand for the next 5 years i guess.....
 
Mac vs. Windows (aka me vs. spouse)

I have a spouse who is a Windows fan, whereas I am a solid Mac guy. Every time we have a "discussion" about switching her over to the Mac, she brings up the various incompatibilities in my software as the OSs changed through the years.

What's worse is that I have no idea how to fix whatever has gone wrong in her laptop or desktop. I know my Macs and I can usually fix the problem with them, but not her PCs. So if she has a problem with a PC, her only choice is to call my nephew (27 and a very busy engineer), and wait for him to come over.

Every time I upgrade the OS, I lose "something" that I learned to love over the years. Screen savers, utilities, and now an app (Quicken in Lion) have all bitten the proverbial dust. I have gone through a wide range of charts and articles about what isn't going to work on 10.6.x or 10.7, which did work on the PPC. This while her software (Publisher) still runs on her current OS and her Dell computers. And in her mind, there is nothing in the Mac that can compete with Publisher.

I appreciate everything that Steve Jobs has done for us. Truly I do. But I'm somewhat tired of living with Steve's idiosyncrasies. Really I am.
 
There is no real logical reason to cut Rosetta. Rosetta doesn't slow down anything, it's not a bloated outdated software. It's there if you need it, if you don't you will never know it existed.

Just seems like another slap in the face to long time users by Apple, to be honest.
 
It'd be a messy workaround, but might it be possible to virtualize Snow Leopard under Lion? (As Fusion and Parallels do for other OSs.)
 
johnfkitchen said:
It'd be a messy workaround, but might it be possible to virtualize Snow Leopard under Lion? (As Fusion and Parallels do for other OSs.)
Click to expand...

VMware Fusion 4.0 (Lion compatible) supports Snow Leopard Server (32 & 64 Bit). The usual workarounds should allow you to install Snow Leopard Client within VMware Fusion 4.0.

I'm sure VMware will release a compatibility update, for all Fusion v3.x.x users, so that they are not forced to upgrade to v4.x.x, if they want to use Fusion under Lion.

Please do not ask me for Fusion 4.0 download links! It is a closed beta program.
 
roadbloc said:
Correction: Staying on Snow Leopard is your only hope. Apple aren't going to shoot you if you don't upgrade. Stick to what works for you, Snow Leopards got at the very least another 2 years of life left in it. Maybe then you can find a Intel replacement for your PPC programs and be able to upgrade.

No-one is forcing you to go to lion.
Click to expand...

The issue with that is that Apple has a very agitating way to get you to upgrade. Whether that means new software (iLife 12) only works on Lion, future hardware only works on Lion (iPhone 5/6 anyone, future peripherals), Safari versions, etc etc. They support XP far better then they do even Leopard.

I mean what the hell is the gain of losing it as an optional install? It's just Apple trying to assert control over it's users in the most annoying way possible. At this point it probably took them more time and effort to remove it then it would have to keep it in (since it's not a software that's going to break or require much support) Why in the hell should Apple care if users are fine using Word 04, or have certain programs which were never updated.. it's just ridiculously stupid. Obviously the fact that they can control every aspect of the iPhone's has gone to their head.
 
Do you thing on the WWDC coming up in a few weeks some developers will talk to apple and assure them that they don't drop rosetta?

I hope there is still a chance for rosetta in the golden master of Lion.
 
Sadly, I doubt that it will be included. The kernel, all kernel extensions and frameworks and dynlib binaries for Lion are x86/ARM only. So even if the little Rosetta binary translator were to be installed, there would be zero support libraries, headers, APIs or function stubs. And since Lion is already on the third beta, nearing feature completeness, there is no chance.
 
I imagine it is possible to run PPC apps on Lion computers. You'll need to run it in an OS X virtual machine using software such as Parallels or Fusion. Snow Leopard Server is authorized to run in a VM. I haven't tried Fusion, but I know with Parallels there is a way to hide the guest OS desktop such that its apps appear to be running on the host OS, even with such things as copy/paste support.
 
graubereich said:
Do you thing on the WWDC coming up in a few weeks some developers will talk to apple and assure them that they don't drop rosetta?
Click to expand...

Of course not. Any developer responsible and engaged enough to be in attendance at WWDC will most certainly have long since ported all of their legacy PPC code to x86.

I'm sorry to tell you, but this just isn't going to happen. There really is no good reason for Apple to keep maintaining this software into the future. It's not as simple as just 'dropping in' the Rosetta of Leopard and Snow Leopard to Lion. They would essentially be putting time and effort (read: money) into a feature that serves only to enable software whose creator did not put that time and effort forth in creating a native x86 version. They were willing to do this in the PPC to Intel transition years so everyone didn't jump ship, but it's been long enough now that everyone who had any intention of catching up has done so.

Honestly, any software that hasn't had an update since the PPC era is probably bordering obsolete. Of course this point can be argued, and there are exceptions, but it is generally true. Lots of deprecation in API's has occurred since then, so Rosetta would not only have to be a binary translation system, it would have to induce bloat into the OS by including years worth of deprecated code.

Leopard and Snow Leopard will continue to be great OS', and if the lack of Rosetta is a deal-breaker for you, then I suggest sticking with what works for you and what you do with it. If you have to get the latest and greatest mac, well, get it--but also get a G5 tower on craigslist for $100 bucks and you can run your PPC applications on the hardware they were built for.
 
I'm pretty disappointed that rosetta has been dropped, there are lot of applications and games I can no longer run =/ No alternative either..

I'd hate to have to run rosetta using vmware or parallels just to run these applications, its messy, uses a lot more resources and its just an inconvenience..
 
graubereich said:
Do you thing on the WWDC coming up in a few weeks some developers will talk to apple and assure them that they don't drop rosetta?

I hope there is still a chance for rosetta in the golden master of Lion.
Click to expand...

It's not the developers who want it, it's the people who use applications that depend on it such as AppleWorks.

http://support.apple.com/downloads/AppleWorks_6_2_9_for_Mac

To quote from the above link:-
"AppleWorks — the most popular program on the Mac — is really several applications in one. It gives you six core capabilities (and a number of combinations thereof): word processing, spreadsheet, database, presentation, drawing and painting. AppleWorks 6 works the way people think and work — and that extends the capabilities of the people using it.

AppleWorks is a compactly designed and elegantly engineered multifunctional program with a remarkably small memory requirement. Best of all, AppleWorks doesn’t take up nearly as much hard disk space as six applications, and needs nowhere near as much memory."

I have a friend whose business is essentially run on AppleWorks. Fortunately, he's a late adopter, so he will be on Snow Leopard for a while, but ultimately, he needs a solution.
 
johnfkitchen said:
I have a friend whose business is essentially run on AppleWorks. Fortunately, he's a late adopter, so he will be on Snow Leopard for a while, but ultimately, he needs a solution.
Click to expand...

Obviously a late adopter. AppleWorks hasn't been sold since 2006. Anyone counting on continuing to run it should know they're setting themselves up for disaster.

jW
 
My sister absolutely uses Macromedia Freehand every day in her work as a designer.

If you're like her and need a rosetta app, yeah, stick to Snow Leopard until you find a solution.
 
I just upgraded my QS G4 to a 2011 MBP and love it. However I was very glad to see that Quicken 2002 still runs under Rosetta (lost Photoshop 7 though). Probably won't upgrade to Lion until I find a suitable Quicken replacement, which definitely won't be Quicken Essentials. Possibly SEE Financial, read some good reviews about that.
 
mac1984user said:
@zap2 - You say it's not unreasonable to drop support for an old architecture after five years, nevermind the perfectly good software still capable of running on it. The thing is...Apple is in a league of its own on this one. I've not run into a similar issue with Windows or Linux. Sure, programs that came out in 1998 are a bit finicky on a Windows 7 machine, but with the compatibility mode, I'm surprised at all the things that still function natively on the Windows 7 machine. I recently installed and played 'The Last Express', a game released in 1997 and didn't even have to bother with compatibility mode. Now, Mac OS and Windows are apples and oranges - I get it. It would just be nice if I could run a few productivity programs I purchased in 2005 without having to do it in a virtual machine. That's all I'm saying. Rosetta was the answer for that.

Mac OS 9 and X were vastly different, and if you wanted to push a new operating system, you had to get people off of OS 9. However, what would hurt by allowing OS X users access to older programs? We're still buying Macs and we're still running the latest version of the OS. Why penalize us? In the early 2000s, people were actively avoiding OS X and opting for 9. Apple had to pull those customers back in by dropping support. Today, how many people are clinging to their G4s with no intention to upgrade because Apple changed its architecture. Not many, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

I Agree, I'd be happier if Mac still had support for rosetta, now personally for my web design work I don't rely on any old software, I always make the necessary upgrades, however there are lot of old games & emulators that I enjoyed playing/using, which I can no longer use, and there are really no alternatives, there is no continued support for really old emulators, and without rosetta I cannot play games like Age of Empires or Diablo 2 or run any of those emulators..

Not saying that upgrading is not necessary, but if Apple could still maintain support for old software that would be a big plus..
 
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