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Will the iPad Mini not fragment the iOS ecosystem?
- Thread starter saintforlife
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What parts of scaling down of apps don't you understand? Do you have an iPad? Do this - load up mobile Safari on it, and go to this website:
http://seveneightyfive.fscked.com
There are a number of screenshots that show EXACTLY what common apps would scale down to on 7.85" iPad Mini. These all look perfectly usable to me.
While apps would still be usable, I doubt it would be as pleasing as on the 9.7" iPad. Or worse, often problematic: text too small forcing to get closer to the tablet, many attempts to reach the button as you're too far from the tablet as the screen is bigger than a phone screen, and that larger surface imply larger movements. Stuffs like that.
I posted link in my first post showing what could be an alternate solution. With a lot of trade-offs too. But this appears to me more realistic than the 7.85" hypothesis.
Actually, it's an excellent example -- you just don't seem to be able to understand it!
You were saying that 0.27" touch targets would make the 7.85" iPad too difficult to use. People can use a smaller target size than that right now (0.22") on a current iPad app (AppShopper), and see for themselves if it presents a problem ---- it doesn't!
It appears that an iPad mini causing fragmentation is hyperbole.
Ctyrider thanks for that link. It provides visual confirmation. I await my iPad mini.
Ctyrider thanks for that link. It provides visual confirmation. I await my iPad mini.
Show me where that was a point I was trying to make
I spoke about this aspect of the problem only because that is the only answer people have when talking about the 7.85" hypothesis, and this was nowhere in the post you were quoting from me.You seem to not have understood that the not so small and usable touch target on a 9.7" iPad would become on a 7.85" iPad probably now really not so usable.
You failed at making your point.
This discussion is not about the possiblity, or not, to make a smaller tablet than the 9.7" iPad,
but is about fragmentation inducted by the introduction of a 7.85" iPad at 1024x768.
On your example, the dev of this app would have to modify its app UI because it would be unusable on the 7.85" iPad.
And by extension, if every app have to look good and to be usable on the 7.85" screen, losing data area for UI elts, then they will only look like as expanded version of the 7.85" UX on the 9.7".
I call that problems.
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Show me where that was a point I was trying to make
There's you trying to make the point again right here below.
You seem to not have understood that the not so small and usable touch target on a 9.7" iPad would become on a 7.85" iPad probably now really so usable.
You failed at making your point.
Again, you fail to understand -- nobody needs to listen to what you might think (I use "think" loosely here ...) -- they are free to try it for themselves and see what they think. It's a beautiful world!
... and I was just starting to miss this ...
editing/typo correction attempt on previous post while you were answering (again)
Oh ok, that is a thread of blind parallel monologues, I understand now.
Sorry ...
Oh ok, that is a thread of blind parallel monologues, I understand now.
Sorry ...
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/appshopper/id387037496?mt=8
0.22" < 0.27"
if AppShopper is usable, you're wrong.
nope
In this case, you have 2 possiblities.
An app support to be shrinked on the smaller screen. iOS can do the job to just scale it, devs only have to provide bitmap images at 78% for no pixelated images.
Typically, graphical apps.
An app able to take advantages of the larger (9.7") screen could be written so that UI adapts to screen size, and then allowing more data to be displayed on the larger screen.
Typically, text dominant content.
The only difference: I have some difficulties to consider a smaller screen can allow to make the same job as a screen with 50% more surface in most cases.
Again, you're just blowing out nonsense people can just ignore.
Anyone can look at any screenshot from the current iPad, and decide for themselves how well it works visually at that size.
Anyone can also try for themselves how a current iPad app will work with a scaled down touch interface.
Current iPad apps mostly work with a touch target size of 0.33". Those will scale down to 0.27" on a 7.85" iPad. You can see how an iPad app will work with a touch target size smaller than that by using AppShopper which uses a touch target size of 0.22". (For extra points, try it with your thumb ... I have
)So where does scaling down the touch target become a problem? Well, the current bad example that freudling is trying to harp on is AppShopper, which would scale down to 0.18". And just what would that size be like to use? If you're looking at this right now on an iPad, just scroll up to the top of the page. In landscape mode, the page selection menu is 0.20" high, and the user log-in boxes are 0.15" high. Flip your iPad into portrait mode, and the page menu becomes 0.15" high, and the log-in boxes become 0.10".
That should give anyone a pretty good idea of the usability of various touch target sizes. Try it out, and see what you think. For myself, 0.10" is getting about the lower limit of what I would want to have to use, but it is still usable.
He's arguing usability but that's not really the question that is being posed by the OP.
Usability is one thing...Fragmentation is another.
As knucklehead says ...the consumer can make the decision here about what is comfortable for them but from a developmental standpoint their is no fragmentation in all but a few niche apps.
Usability is one thing...Fragmentation is another.
As knucklehead says ...the consumer can make the decision here about what is comfortable for them but from a developmental standpoint their is no fragmentation in all but a few niche apps.
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Well, you seem to only want to talk about size of tap targets.
Why do you think Apple decided 44 px was the right size?
They didn't choose it because it was impossible to touch and be precise enough to reach smaller tap target.
But the concentration, attention, precision, time needed to tap at first attempt too small areas affect usability.
Now, yes, in most cases, the 163 ppi screens and the 44 px iOS-wide norm makes in theory the 7.85" ok about that. But I consider a tablet and a phone are used differently, especially because of the size of their respective screen. Tell me, Why did they maintained the 44 px norm for the iPad? Because they already had the 7.85"@163ppi iPad in mind? Unlikely
For all the rest, I don't think it's useful to continue to talk about size more. We disagree on that.
And few screenshots can't really help to have a good idea.
And, again, my initial point was to say, inevitably apps would change if a 7.85" iPad was launched with only the solution of scaled apps. Devs would have to adapt to the new size their app render on this screen. And I think it could lead to deteriorate the experience of app on the 9.7" iPad.
I was not talking about the un-feasibility and heresy a 7.85" could be. That was not my point.
Well, they're actually fairly related. Part of the problem in these debates is the "fuzziness" in the way Apple has defined things in their Human Interface Guideline. First, using "points" rather than an actual human dimension -- and then qualifying it all with a firm "about" in reference to the dimension.
If apps become unusable, then they need to be redesigned for the different screen sizes. There's really nothing to indicate there would need to be another "fragment" of apps that would have to be designed specifically for the 7.85 screen size ... perhaps just some that would benefit from being modified a bit to run optimally on both. So far, all I have seen is AppShopper -- and even that looks quite workable scaled down without modification. If anyone can come up with some other bad examples, please do.
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Well, touch target size is really the only point that is a bit difficult to simulate with 100% accuracy. Seeing how any possible screen would look scaled to 7.85" is not in the least.
Give me an example of an app the would present a much of a problem scaling down to 7.85", and I'd be glad to see it -- I've spent a bit of time looking for one.
And yes, browsing the web would be better on the current iPad.
Pages, any text editor
iBooks (I use smaller size for font on books)
any text oriented app (including indeed web browsers)
It feels like you'd have to get too close to the tablet for comfortable reading/editing, but the screen is large, more than a phone. Not sure it would be a good experience
I really don't care one way or the other. It is Apple's decision and a marketing one at that. I use what I use that works for me. It is only a tool that I use and the same applies to the computer I use. So far, since 1982, I have used Apple because it serves me the best. If something better comes along, I'll use that. I'm not tied down to anything and I always have a choice.
Yep - I'd agree with all those. Squeezing things down are a compromise, and you'd need to decide if the trade-off in convenience of a smaller, more portable device, is worth it. Looks like we just need to wait and see what might actually happen.
That's exactly why I came up to the solution described in the link posted in my first post.
If an app can support to be scaled down, go with it.
If an app content avoids to be displayed at different physical size for usability, just condense it. The smaller screen implying less content though.
Well, you called that nonsense to be ignored. You probably are an authority, your opinion deserving my respect.
You are making a lot of assumptions and drawing conclusions, that are based on pure speculation, and not based on any evidence.
Majority of knowledgeable people who spent time investigating the usability of 7.85" iPad with current logical resolution don't share your concerns. So I think I will trust the opinions of the experts as opposed to random people in these forums.
Ultimately, when iPad Mini is out - we will all be able to play with it in the store and reach our own conclusions. Until then - this debate is rather pointless.
Yeah, definitely. I'm only a random forum poster. That's for sure. And I only talk for myself.
Now tell me what conclusion I make?
All I say is even if often still usable, shrinked apps can't lead to flawless UX on the 7.85" in comparison with the 9.7".
All the rest is indeed pure speculation, and no conclusion. Simple reflexions and start point for discussions. I'm here only for contradiction and argumentation.
And I've seen no evidence or proof that the 7.85" iPad at 1024x768 and with scaled apps only will be the future for Apple. This is also pure speculations from 'experts'.
And being not convinced, you don't mind I try to discuss it or elaborate divergent ideas.
Teach me, contradict me. I've no pain being wrong.
You find it pointless, just don't read or send post.