Other Will the iPhone 14 be the FINAL iPhone before Apple betrays us with iOS 17? Due to CSAM & Apple Maps Ads.

[DBZmusicboy01]

I don't agree with an invasion of our privacy. Look at what happened with safari this week where a 3RD PARTY CAN INVADE OUR PHONES AND PLANT THINGS ON IT WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE... and you think it's a good idea to buy the iPhone 15 with iOS 17 on it?
I think the iPhone 14 will be the final iPhone most people get because the iPhone 15 will have iOS 17 with all those problems on it. And then the Apple Maps having Ads which would totally ruin the premium iPhone experience.

It's like paying $50,000 for a used 1999 Geo Metro Car versus a 2022 Mercedes-Benz. I guess I will have to keep the iPhone 14 on iOS 16 until Tim Apple leaves. iOS might as well be renamed INVASION OPERATING SYSTEM. We are not happy paying a premium for us to receive a pile of cow manure.

 

[zakarhino]

Where are you gonna go? Google's Android? There are no alternatives. It's either Google or Apple. Smartphones are dominated by a duopoly consisting of Google and Apple. Desktops/laptops are dominated by a duopoly consisting of Apple and Microsoft (Google Chromebooks are not viable as a main machine). All three of those companies collaborate to maintain their dominance. All three happily work with the government to make spying on you easier.

In a better world we would have legislation that forces OS providers to let us turn off features we don't want and install alternative app stores. Instead any and all legislation that passes will be all about increasing surveillance and serving corporate interests (if a law passes mandating alt app stores it will only be because someone like Walmart or Epic Games purchased the bill and you bet it won't be tailored around making the end user's experience better).

Android and iOS will continue to collect more data about you and make it harder for you to avoid the botnet. There is no escaping it at the moment.

 

[Brien]

Yep. No winning. Ads and datamining… or ads and datamining. Yay.

 

[sjperformance]

The world has changed. Cars. Phones. TV'. All keep track of us and collect data. That's life now. The idea is what info you are willing to compromise.

 

[R!TTER]

If you're on the internet don't expect full privacy, you can try to remain more anonymous by using VPN, adblockers et al but that's about it.

 

[Jackbequickly]

If on the internet, don’t expect any privacy at all!

 

[sjperformance]

Don't drive any newer model cars either. Those keep track and log a bunch of stuff too.

 

[Jackbequickly]

Just the hidden tag readers are enough to generally track many people.

There is no escaping. . . . . .

 

[JM]

Well this is a depressing thread.

 

[TracerAnalog]

I don't agree with an invasion of our privacy. Look at what happened with safari this week where a 3RD PARTY CAN INVADE OUR PHONES AND PLANT THINGS ON IT WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE... and you think it's a good idea to buy the iPhone 15 with iOS 17 on it?
I think the iPhone 14 will be the final iPhone most people get because the iPhone 15 will have iOS 17 with all those problems on it. And then the Apple Maps having Ads which would totally ruin the premium iPhone experience.

It's like paying $50,000 for a used 1999 Geo Metro Car versus a 2022 Mercedes-Benz. I guess I will have to keep the iPhone 14 on iOS 16 until Tim Apple leaves. iOS might as well be renamed INVASION OPERATING SYSTEM. We are not happy paying a premium for us to receive a pile of cow manure.

Just... No.

 

[iObama]

Where are you gonna go? Google's Android? There are no alternatives. It's either Google or Apple. Smartphones are dominated by a duopoly consisting of Google and Apple. Desktops/laptops are dominated by a duopoly consisting of Apple and Microsoft (Google Chromebooks are not viable as a main machine). All three of those companies collaborate to maintain their dominance. All three happily work with the government to make spying on you easier.

In a better world we would have legislation that forces OS providers to let us turn off features we don't want and install alternative app stores. Instead any and all legislation that passes will be all about increasing surveillance and serving corporate interests (if a law passes mandating alt app stores it will only be because someone like Walmart or Epic Games purchased the bill and you bet it won't be tailored around making the end user's experience better).

Android and iOS will continue to collect more data about you and make it harder for you to avoid the botnet. There is no escaping it at the moment.

While I agree with you, the fact is that a lot of us (myself included) have put up with Apple's subpar apps for a long time because of Apple's stance on ads.

If I'm going to be bought and sold on either platform, this opens things up for me to switch to Android, whereas that was just never an option before. Spotify, Google Maps, Google Photos, same thing.

 

[cthompson94]

Do you read the terms and conditions for everything you sign up for/download? You probably have agreed to way more than you can imagine especially since I know some companies throw outrageous stuff in theirs just to see if people catch it. Free can only be free for so long and you are complaining about a public company that needs to constantly keep stockholders happy so you can continue getting the next iPhone and we don't even know what these ads will look like yet since it has only been internal testing with them within Apple. Good luck finding a free good/reliable maps service without any type of ad.

Feel free to move back to old school phones or just don't use whatever you have issues with. No software is going to be perfect (your safari mention) fill free to use another browser on your phone. As far as CSAM is concerned, I don't think you understand how it works 100% because it is not like someone is just looking at all the photos you take like how you see them on screen

 

[Slartibart]

If… I.F…. there is the possibility of buying ads for local businesses in Apple maps - that would be wrong why? 🙂 Anyway, there are options.
The local CSAM implementation and its potential use as backdoor is indeed a different can of worms - please participate&sign here.

 

[Fred Zed]

Keep bending over and saying yes please three bags full please.

 

[Jakewilk]

The 13% here is perfect evidence that this echo chamber is full of loud, misled voices. Saying CSAM is the first step to a dystopian future is wild. It’s protecting kids from exploitation by checking iCloud contents for photos that belong to a *known and finite* child pornography library. It’s not scanning for potential child pornography, only known child pornography. All done anonymously by a non-sentient bot. That’s not the first step to losing privacy, that’s our next step toward disabling child abuse.

For the last time, the CSAM protections only apply to the cloud and apple has never had plans to implement it on an OS level. Feel free to buy the iphone 15 or even 30, the only apple product this policy effects is icloud. That will effect your iPhone 14 as well as your current phone, but it’s as easy to turn off as one flip of a switch…

 

[timeconsumer]

The 13% here is perfect evidence that this echo chamber is full of loud, misled voices. Saying CSAM is the first step to a dystopian future is wild. It’s protecting kids from exploitation by checking iCloud contents for photos that belong to a *known and finite* child pornography library. It’s not scanning for potential child pornography, only known child pornography. All done anonymously by a non-sentient bot. That’s not the first step to losing privacy, that’s our next step toward disabling child abuse.

For the last time, the CSAM protections only apply to the cloud and apple has never had plans to implement it on an OS level. Feel free to buy the iphone 15 or even 30, the only apple product this policy effects is icloud. That will effect your iPhone 14 as well as your current phone, but it’s as easy to turn off as one flip of a switch…

The last I read on this topic was that the scan would happen on device before being uploaded to iCloud. I don't think anybody would care if the scan was being done on Apple's servers but most would prefer for it not to be done on their device.

With Apple's recent Safari exploits/vulnerabilities I don't want this done on device because there's potential for other uses of an on device scanning system. Once it's built it can be modified for other uses. Apple just needs to do what everyone else is doing and scan on their servers only.

 

[Jakewilk]

The last I read on this topic was that the scan would happen on device before being uploaded to iCloud. I don't think anybody would care if the scan was being done on Apple's servers but most would prefer for it not to be done on their device.

With Apple's recent Safari exploits/vulnerabilities I don't want this done on device because there's potential for other uses of an on device scanning system. Once it's built it can be modified for other uses. Apple just needs to do what everyone else is doing and scan on their servers only

Here’s the link to apple’s FAQ on the topic:

https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf

Does this mean Apple is going to scan all the photos stored on my iPhone?

No.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

what is this thread?
To start with, Apple hasn’t said anywhere that they’re waiting for iOS 17 to implement all of these features.
They could easily release it in a 16.1 or 16.2 update, they could even do a 15.7 if they really wanted to.
To start with, CSAM on device hash matching is clearly something that upsets *a lot* of people, so many people that Apple has pretty much delayed the feature indefinitely.
Personally, I think they’ve internally canceled it.
While the majority of customers probably didn’t care, the overwhelming amount of people who came out and said “no” to this including security researchers, their own employees, government advisors, etc I think really did put their brand on blast, and I don’t think they’ll revisit that can of worms anytime soon.
It was supposed to launch over a year ago. It was first announced in August 2021. It’s been over a year later, and they haven’t said a word since December.
It’s almost exactly the same behavior they had towards AirPower, announce it, advertise it, erase everything about it off of the website, never mention it again, almost 2 years later finally say that it’s canceled.
And no, they can’t just slip it in quietly to an update.
Apple has some of the most scrutinized software ever, if it were slipped in without prior announcement, it would be known about within hours.
People look through that code with a fine tooth comb for every tiny update, I don’t think there would be any hiding it. And it would look really really really bad if they slipped it in without saying anything. Very bad, I don’t think they’ll be doing that.
As for the Maps ads, to start with given that it’s rumored to only be in search results, that might not even require a software update. That might be entirely server-side, meaning it doesn’t matter which version of iOS you’re using.
But also, it’s not even the first time Apple has done this. Its not remotely surprising, and honestly, I thought they had already been doing this for years.
If adding paid suggestions in the maps search results is a betrayal to you, why wasn’t it when they did the same thing with the App Store, or put ads in Apple news, or played little promos before Apple TV + shows, or years ago when they literally had a service called “iAds”.
Either way, if either of these things were to happen (one I think is very unlikely and one I think is very likely) it might not matter which version of iOS you’re running, and it certainly won’t only affect the iPhone 15.
So to answer the original question, no the iPhone 14 won’t be the FINAL iPhone before Apple betrays anyone with iOS 17, because they were never on your side to begin with.

 

[zakarhino]

While I agree with you, the fact is that a lot of us (myself included) have put up with Apple's subpar apps for a long time because of Apple's stance on ads.

If I'm going to be bought and sold on either platform, this opens things up for me to switch to Android, whereas that was just never an option before. Spotify, Google Maps, Google Photos, same thing.

I made a similar argument in a different thread. If both are gonna track you and display ads it means I might as well consider Android again because the OS has improved dramatically: many of the security loopholes have been patched, some of the apps are more capable because of Android APIs, better multitasking, general OS polish is great, and finally the quality of data mined suggestions in Googleland (such as YouTube vids, Google search, Maps, etc.) are a lot better than Apple's. Some of the OS wide translation features in Android look super useful.

I might pick up a Pixel 7 this year and give it a go as a secondary. The last time I used an Android phone was in 2013 and I'm very curious to see what's changed.

 

[timeconsumer]

Here’s the link to apple’s FAQ on the topic:

https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf

Looking at this and assuming I'm understanding it correctly, the CSAM detection hashes are stored on the device. Which means they're doing the "scan" or the detection on the device itself before uploading to iCloud. Since this system is on device, it means it can be modified to be used for other uses as well.

 

[timeconsumer]

I made a similar argument in a different thread. If both are gonna track you and display ads it means I might as well consider Android again because the OS has improved dramatically: many of the security loopholes have been patched, some of the apps are more capable because of Android APIs, better multitasking, general OS polish is great, and finally the quality of data mined suggestions in Googleland (such as YouTube vids, Google search, Maps, etc.) are a lot better than Apple's. Some of the OS wide translation features in Android look super useful.

I might pick up a Pixel 7 this year and give it a go as a secondary. The last time I used an Android phone was in 2013 and I'm very curious to see what's changed.

I have a Pixel 6 Pro as my secondary device, unfortunately the modem in it isn't very good. Hopefully they fix that with the Pixel 7 and if they do, it's definitely worth a test drive. Even though it has a weak modem, I have no plans to upgrade my Pixel 6 Pro; the software on it seems to keep improving with each month and Android 13 is really good so far. If Apple continues down a path that I don't like, I don't think I'd have a problem switching over to a Pixel as my main device.

 

[IconDRT]

On a serious note, let’s say Apple comes out and says we are going to monetize all your data just like Google, you’re going to get ads on all your Apple devices, and we plan on scanning email for keywords to better target you. If this were the case, how bad would Apple software/hardware have to get in order for you to consider switching?

After all, if privacy is out the window on whatever platform one chooses, what would keep me with Apple is the ecosystem lock-in and convenience.

Apple offerings would have to get a good deal worse for me to move to a Dell XPS and a Google Pixel for example. And if I’m really serious about privacy, maybe Linux and a Linux phone or a dumb phone is the only option with all the inconveniences and disadvantages that come with those options.

There’s a clip of Bill Burr on Conan from a few years back talking about the NFL and Conan asks what would the NFL have to do to get Bill to no longer watch. And Bill said if the commissioner punted a baby across the room while wearing his expensive wing tip shoes that he’d still watch the NFL haha! That’s kinda how I feel about Apple and privacy. It would have to be a huge egregious and noticeably impactful (to me personally) decision on Apple’s part for me to consider dealing with Windows or PCs or Android or Google or Linux. And that’s also why the iPhone 15 will be the best selling phone when it’s released, just like every other previous iPhone was the best seller when it was released.

 

[ian87w]

A lot of unrelated things.
The Safari thing is a security flaw, and it has been patched. Security flaws like this occurs on any software regardless of the manufacturer. I'm just glad that security patches on iOS can be pushed right away to all supported devices.

Ads on maps. So far that's just a rumor. We will see if Apple would actually do it. I don't think they will without providing a less intrusive ad-platform (revival of iAds?), and after marketing pushing privacy as their selling point for so long, I don't think Apple would do it.

 

[Luna Murasaki]

I guess I don't really understand the concern here. Yes, the scanning system could later be updated to scan for and report other things in a new update to the platform. A new update to the platform could also contain new features that monitor your camera for signs you are on the toilet and send that footage to be broadcast in Times Square, because a new software update can include anything that software could do. But if Apple has not yet done something with their software, nor provided any hint or indication that they will do so in the future, I don't see why it is worthy of discussion yet. Maybe I'm missing something important, but on the surface level at least this angle of criticism sounds like a classic example of the slippery slope fallacy to me.

As it stands, I don't see how Apple 'scanning' your device for known child porn images is any different from the way it 'scans' and reads your photos in order to generate thumbnails or otherwise display them to you. The way I see it, that's what makes on-device scanning so much more tame than something happening server side. It's utterly harmless unless it detects a problem. And with the way the system works, there is zero chance of false positives. It's also worth pointing out that this ONLY applies to photos synced with iCloud. You can still collect the most criminally depraved and revolting images you can find to your heart's content right on your phone and so long as they are not synced to iCloud, nothing bad will happen to you just like as if it was being scanned on-server.

I do agree with critics that "think of the children" should never be used as a scare-tactic argument to justify the indefensible. But I don't think that's what this is. I do very much prefer the idea of scans of my stuff being done on-device rather than by Apple and I find it sad that this is probably not going to happen now.

Either way, I would imagine someone capable of acquiring such incredibly illegal hot potato images in the first place would also be smart enough not to be storing them on their online cloud accounts to begin with. So this is all probably pointless anyway.

 

[SirAnthonyHopkins]

I use Apple Maps in the UK, because Google Maps is an absolute mess, largely because of ads. Almost everything about the Google Maps experience is inferior. Feels like a plastic toy version of maps, where everything that's highlighted is a Starbucks or Disney Store.