Other Will the iPhone 14 be the FINAL iPhone before Apple betrays us with iOS 17? Due to CSAM & Apple Maps Ads.

[arkitect]

I use Apple Maps in the UK, because Google Maps is an absolute mess, largely because of ads. Almost everything about the Google Maps experience is inferior. Feels like a plastic toy version of maps, where everything that's highlighted is a Starbucks or Disney Store.

Really?
Must be a regional thing. I use Google Maps in the UK — far superior to Apple's excuse.

Google maps gives me cycling and walking and driving oh and accurate public transport.

Sure there are "ads" but it's hardly like it makes it more difficult to navigate.
Oh and, I have yet to see a Disney Store pop up. Maybe that's got more to do with your browsing history… 🤣

 

[KurtMann]

Any backdoor must be implemented with care. If this works well and blow up a few pedophile rings, it’s hard to argue against. Every sane person want that. But a backdoor is a backdoor and there are other bad players out there to worry about.

I find it hard to imagine going Google. Maybe Linux makes something cool in the future.

 

[maternidad]

There is no back door. I find that claim so hard to understand. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[KurtMann]

There is no back door. I find that claim so hard to understand. It doesn’t make any sense.

Unless I misunderstand; they are building a tool to search for content on the phone (or in the cloud). If that tool is out it shouldn't be that hard to adapt for whatever this or that government want to screen for. It's like that punk song: Today your love, tomorrow the world.

 

[Ethosik]

And with the way the system works, there is zero chance of false positives.

I would be careful with this. The system DOES make judgements based on cropping, adjustments, distortions etc. if it’s not a 1:1 perfect match, there is ALWAYS a chance for false positives.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I would be careful with this. The system DOES make judgements based on cropping, adjustments, distortions etc. if it’s not a 1:1 perfect match, there is ALWAYS a chance for false positives.

No, Apple’s system doesn’t make “judgements”. It’s algorithmic. Either it matches well enough or it doesn’t. For Apple’s method, there reportedly would have to be 30 such matches. And, after 30 matches all 30 matches would have a low resolution review of the images by Apple.

There is a chance for 1 false positive, but the chance is low. The chance for 30 false positives is that much lower. And, the chance for 30 false positive that upon visual inspection are still false positives is even lower than that.

 

[maternidad]

Unless I misunderstand; they are building a tool to search for content on the phone (or in the cloud). If that tool is out it shouldn't be that hard to adapt for whatever this or that government want to screen for. It's like that punk song: Today your love, tomorrow the world.

If the tool aided in that governments scanned cell phones for other media, it would be through inspiring them to force Apple to do so —not enabling them.

 

[KurtMann]

If the tool aided in that governments scanned cell phones for other media, it would be through inspiring them to force Apple to do so —not enabling them.

Yes. And that seems extremely unlikely today, but no one knows tomorrow.

I don’t think Europe and America needs to worry for the foreseeable future.

 

[I7guy]

Looking at this and assuming I'm understanding it correctly, the CSAM detection hashes are stored on the device. Which means they're doing the "scan" or the detection on the device itself before uploading to iCloud. Since this system is on device, it means it can be modified to be used for other uses as well

Absolutely. In the realm of anything is possible. In fact that code may already be buried within the iPhone.

 

[max2]

If you all think the iPhone and this can not be hacked your not remembering anything can be hacked.

 

[timeconsumer]

If you all think the iPhone and this can not be hacked your not remembering anything can be hacked.

Of course it can but the goal is to minimize the risks as much as possible. By implementing an on device scanning system that isn’t necessary when they can just implement CSAM scanning/detection server side instead like everyone else does.

 

[Ethosik]

No, Apple’s system doesn’t make “judgements”. It’s algorithmic. Either it matches well enough or it doesn’t. For Apple’s method, there reportedly would have to be 30 such matches. And, after 30 matches all 30 matches would have a low resolution review of the images by Apple.

There is a chance for 1 false positive, but the chance is low. The chance for 30 false positives is that much lower. And, the chance for 30 false positive that upon visual inspection are still false positives is even lower than that.

It does make judgements. You just said if it matches “well enough” so you said the same thing! It’s not a pixel perfect 1:1 match. Therefore it makes some judgements.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

It does make judgements. You just said if it matches “well enough” so you said the same thing! It’s not a pixel perfect 1:1 match. Therefore it makes some judgements.

An oversimplification:
1+x=n and if n over threshold = match.

There is no “judgement”. The hash is calculated and if it passes the threshold, it’s considered a “match”. The SAME hash match algorithm against every image, every time. If there is a “not match” there is no “judgment” that enters into that then says, “NO, it wasn’t a match but I judge that it IS one.”

 

[rafark]

BRING HIM BACK!

 

[The Game 161]

You are being tracked now. Nothing is safe even now.

just Live your life and not worry about things you cant control

 

[Luna Murasaki]

Again: I understand that Apple could, in the future, modify this system to scan for and do absolutely anything. But they are not doing so now. Yes, a government could compel them to modify the existing system to do something much worse, but they could also compel them to write the system in the first place if it didn't exist yet. I don't see how this concern makes any sense to begin with, let alone how doing this with on-server code somehow resolves the problem. At least changing the code on your device requires you to consent to an update.

I'll agree though that if there is indeed a significant chance of completely innocent images triggering a human review of your stuff, that's unacceptable. But no more than if that was happening on their servers.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Again: I understand that Apple could, in the future, modify this system to scan for and do absolutely anything. But they are not doing so now. Yes, a government could compel them to modify the existing system to do something much worse, but they could also compel them to write the system in the first place if it didn't exist yet. I don't see how this concern makes any sense to begin with, let alone how doing this with on-server code somehow resolves the problem. At least changing the code on your device requires you to consent to an update.

Thing is, once one accepts that “a government could compel them”, who’s to say a government hasn’t ALREADY compelled them? What is this quite public announcement of a plan to do a thing going to change? If they’re already compelling Apple, they have access to everything they need already. No need to create ANOTHER back door when a back door to fully access the phone is already in place.

I'll agree though that if there is indeed a significant chance of completely innocent images triggering a human review of your stuff, that's unacceptable. But no more than if that was happening on their servers.

It’s nowhere near significant. Google’s not doing what Apple’s doing BUT out of the billions of photos they’ve scanned, only 1 was a false positive. Facebook, Microsoft, anyone hosting images is doing some form of this and there’s been one publicized case among all of them. Apple’s method is even LESS likely to yield a false positive.

 

[antiprotest]

I don't agree with an invasion of our privacy. Look at what happened with safari this week where a 3RD PARTY CAN INVADE OUR PHONES AND PLANT THINGS ON IT WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE... and you think it's a good idea to buy the iPhone 15 with iOS 17 on it?
I think the iPhone 14 will be the final iPhone most people get because the iPhone 15 will have iOS 17 with all those problems on it. And then the Apple Maps having Ads which would totally ruin the premium iPhone experience.

It's like paying $50,000 for a used 1999 Geo Metro Car versus a 2022 Mercedes-Benz. I guess I will have to keep the iPhone 14 on iOS 16 until Tim Apple leaves. iOS might as well be renamed INVASION OPERATING SYSTEM. We are not happy paying a premium for us to receive a pile of cow manure.

CSAM and ads and other things that we don't know about might possibly come with an iOS 16 update way before iPhone 15 and iOS 17. And once these things start coming, they will come at an accelerated rate. The twist in this drama might be that Apple is the evil final boss all along, hiding in plain sight while we give them our money and fund its sinister plans. And at the end it will take all of us customers, boomers and zoomers, NSA, EFF, Democrats, Republicans, Trump, Obama, USA, China, North and South Korea, EU, Russia, Google, Facebook, Microsoft -- literally everybody must put aside their differences and band together -- to bring Apple down and preserve our privacy, security, and even human civilization itself.

 

[KurtMann]

CSAM and ads and other things that we don't know about might possibly come with an iOS 16 update way before iPhone 15 and iOS 17. And once these things start coming, they will come at an accelerated rate. The twist in this drama might be that Apple is the evil final boss all along, hiding in plain sight while we give them our money and fund its sinister plans. And at the end it will take all of us customers, boomers and zoomers, NSA, EFF, Democrats, Republicans, Trump, Obama, USA, China, North and South Korea, EU, Russia, Google, Facebook, Microsoft -- literally everybody must put aside their differences and band together -- to bring Apple down and preserve our privacy, security, and even human civilization itself.

Apple going full Dr Manhattan: creating world peace by giving them a common enemy. Beautiful!

 

[Abazigal]

I have no issues with CSAM detection on my Apple devices or with ads, and I foresee myself continuing to use Apple products for a good long time.

 

[Tsepz]

I don't agree with an invasion of our privacy. Look at what happened with safari this week where a 3RD PARTY CAN INVADE OUR PHONES AND PLANT THINGS ON IT WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE... and you think it's a good idea to buy the iPhone 15 with iOS 17 on it?
I think the iPhone 14 will be the final iPhone most people get because the iPhone 15 will have iOS 17 with all those problems on it. And then the Apple Maps having Ads which would totally ruin the premium iPhone experience.

It's like paying $50,000 for a used 1999 Geo Metro Car versus a 2022 Mercedes-Benz. I guess I will have to keep the iPhone 14 on iOS 16 until Tim Apple leaves. iOS might as well be renamed INVASION OPERATING SYSTEM. We are not happy paying a premium for us to receive a pile of cow manure.

If you are worried about CSAM then you better begin shifting away from using cloud services for your media because a similar tool is already active on Google’s own services…