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Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by jbrown, Jun 22, 2012.
No, move on - buy now and have the option of Lion, wait and Mountain Lion will be the only choice....
Not really, if a Mac originally came with Lion, it can still get Mac OS X 10.7 Lion installed onto it, even if it now only comes with OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion. For example, the late 2011 MBPs have no had no real changes done to them, but only came with Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, but since Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard drivers were existing, one could get Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard onto them. I did so myself with such MBP.
But sadly, 2012 Macs can't have Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard installed upon them, as there will be no drivers for that OS and 2012 hardware.
Lion is only distributed digitally, you can guarantee once ML is released you wont be able to download Lion from Apples servers unless you are replacing Lion. the only way i see someone being able to load Lion in the future for a system sold with ML is if they can get a previously downloaded image from someone else, as I seriously doubt Apple will provide as it`s not their way. You will also need the Lion build for the 2012`s which will be different to the 2011`s
I don't understand why it's possible to install OS X on a non-Mac system (ie hackintoshes) yet you can't, through the use of kextual magic, install an old version of OS X on newer mac hardware.
It doesn't seem logical, no one's provided an adequate reason why it would be impossible. Someone said the Mountain Lion kernel and drivers communicate differently with the Ivy Bridge processors and so the SL kernel wouldn't be able to but then what about the other processors that SL has been successfully installed on?
I'm sure there's a way, just need to find a good hackintosh forum to inquire at.
Have you seen any Hackintoshes with Ivy Bridge chipset and running Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard? I haven't yet. It is because Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard does NOT have the drivers for Ivy Bridge chipsets.
Furthermore, seriously, what is it with you guys and your tech boners for Snow Leopard? You are insisting on running an OS that is now 3 years old. The last update was 10 months ago. It's discontinued, it won't receive updates, and support will be cut off for it. Stop clinging to it as if the world would end if you upgrade.
So sure, people just need to MOVE ON! Seriously, there is nothing wrong with Lion, and by downgrading the software instead of keeping it up-to-date, this is just silly :roll eyes: This is especially with Apple products
I am one of those, wanting to run Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard too, I recently installed Mac OS X 10.7 Lion on my iMac again, to see if anything changed or got better, but my experience and workflow is still hampered by its Mission Control implementation. I use 16 Spaces, though am reducing it back to 12 or 8, but with Mission Control navigating more than 6 Desktops is a nightmare, especially as you can't see all the windows in other Desktops, while you can do that in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard when Spaces is activated.
Imagine going from Spaces in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, looking like this
to Mission Control in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, looking like this
Of course, not everyone uses that many Spaces, but Mission Control seriously hampers the usefulness of more than six virtual desktops.
Even that TotalSpaces app is not that useful yet, but I will give it another week or so, though I won't have time to reinstall Mac OS X in the next couple of weeks anyway.
Spaces/Exposé is the only thing keeping me on Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, the rest of Mac OS X 10.7 Lion looks quite useful and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion looks promising too, but since MC took away my main navigation system, and the Dock is a poor surrogate and CMD+TAB can kiss my arse (probably censored again), Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard will be still my second favourite, behind Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, the most stable OS X version I ran on my Macs.
You don't need the space to take up 1/16th of the space, especially if you use it on a larger monitor. You don't need to see every single little detail of every single space you own; that's the point of the feature, to give you an overview of what you're running and what your various spaces look at. You shouldn't be using the feature to monitor 16 different monitors at the same time, that's not the intended purpose. The intended purpose, clearly since the individual desktops have been made smaller, is to help you organize your applications into however many spaces you need, and then switch between spaces when you need to.
Yes, there is, but that is an individual and subjective matter, and you obviously don't have a problem with Mac OS X 10.7 Lion. But others do, and I can understand their need for putting Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard onto 2012 hardware. I would so too, if I could.
Apple is not interested in special cases, it caters to the bright audience, the consumers, and only a fraction of Mac OS X users even used Spaces' full potential. I still see many new* Mac OS X users not even using Exposé or other navigational features. MC is okay for the Joe Average and workflows of many other people, but for some, that simple ***** (censored word for excrement, British English for those not skittish enough) of MC is not cutting it for them.
Throw a 2010 MacBook Logic Board in there, and sure it will run Snow Leopard.
I understand, but please, look at that MC implementation of 12 Spaces. I have many applications that are gray and a quick glance using MC is taking longer than using Spaces, where I even can see individual windows if I use Exposé (All Windows, also taken away in Mac OS X 10.7 Lion and later) in addition to Spaces. The mouse also travels longer using MC than using Spaces.
You don't need to convince me on MC, many tried, I tried, now I try again, but it is still not cutting it.
But as I will redo my workflow anyway, going from digital post production to on set work, I might not need 12 Spaces anymore and can live with 4 in the future.
But for now, Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard is more than enough for me and I can live with not being one of the many using Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, even though I upgraded to every new Mac OS X version within two weeks since Mac OS X 10.3 Panther.
PS: I think I forgot to explain that * of an earlier post: * - since the iPhone got new crowds coming to Mac OS X - a good thing for Apple, money wise, a bad thing, for taking away many features to make sure Joe Smith will understand this or that button and not **** up (another censored expletive, "frell" in that other part of the galaxy) clicking the OKAY button. Yes, my manners are ***** right now, but I don't care. Apple has ****ed it up in my eyes, and they probably will get away with it.
In your 12-space layout, I can combine 6 of those spaces into one. 2 of them have absolutely nothing in them, one of them is used squarely for a browser, one is used squarely for itunes. One only has activity monitor and system preferences. Do you seriously need a single space for each of those? That's ****ing ridiculous. You're blaming Apple for your OCD Space use that you just *can't* simplify.
Apple has ****ed up in your eyes by catering to 99% of the population. Sorry that you're not in that 99% but there's no possible way they can cater to everyone while still innovating on their products. If you worked in a software company, you'd know that. Just because it ruins your OCD spaces doesn't meant the feature isn't working well. I can use it just fine because, unlike you, I can handle having more than one thing open in one space at any given point in time.
ETA: If you really need to look at something, use a second or third monitor for christ sakes. Spaces aren't meant to replace monitors.
You have to be prepared to change the way you set up your workflow, I now find Lion to be faster and more intuitive than Snow Leopard. i simply assign apps to desktops, uncheck "Automatically rearrange spaces based on most recent use"
On my 2011 Lion system presently running eight desktops & three spaces, even with twelve to fifteen it`s still manageable, I now where everything is and I can, access it instantly. Once you master MC, only then do you realise the benefit over 10.6, Lion is faster to set up, faster to use, however you also need to make the adjustment
No pinch-to-zoom in folders. Yes, it matters. There was NO reason to take this feature away.
Gray icons in the side bar. Again, NO reason to take color icons away And no, I don't want to have to forcefully crash Finder and "hack" them back in.
Dumbed down controls in Airport Utility. Yes, I can download the old version but I should not have to do that. Just add a frickin "Advanced" button on the UI.
Keeps opening Mail windows every time I close Mail. I had to write a script to close them. Snow Leopard assumed a fresh start whenever I closed out of Mail.
Unnecessary space consumption creating versions of everything with no ability to disable.
To that point, no blatant "Save As" feature.
You'll notice my list targets changes and behavior that had absolutely NO practical benefit to anyone. They just changed basic functionality for the sake of changing it and I HATE that. Microsoft is doing the same thing in Windows 8 and it's annoying. There are a whole slew of other annoying things - removal of Front Row being one.
My Pro and iMac have never seen and will never see Lion or Mountain Lion. I'd sooner sell the bastards. The Air came with it which gave me a chance to give it a fair shot and I literally hate it.
I want to use newer OS's, believe I do, but not at the sake of broken functionality. Lion has one thing I consider an excellent added feature: the ability to add image signatures to PDFs. But that's all I see in terms of benefit. It just happens to be an extremely valuable benefit.
XP has been on life support for god knows how long, it is only receiving extended support, which is only available to Enterprise customers. People who are using it shouldn't be; it's old, it has not received security updates for 3 years, and it simply sucks compared to Windows 7. It's not a pointless upgrade at this point. If you haven't upgraded from Windows XP in the past 3 years, your computer is unprotected, and Microsoft is not doing anything about it.
@revelated - Seriously? That's your list of problems with the OS? That's the most nitpicky bunch of complaints that I've ever read. You're complaining over colour being taken away. Get over yourself. You actually sound like a little kid complaining over those things. Oh well, enjoy your unsupported, unpatched OS.
On another note, what exactly is Microsoft doing for the sake of change? The start menu removal? What the hell would you have wanted them to do? Just spew out the exact same product year after year. Innovation requires change, people have to understand and deal with that.
Innovation requires ADDING and ENHANCING features. Not removing them just because.
There's a reason Windows 7 is currently the dominant operating system. There's a reason so many people want to UPGRADE to Snow Leopard from Lion. There's a reason the 2010 Air got lambasted by many. Apple removes features for no reason and people like you with their head in the iClouds justify illogical decisions.
I really don't care about your not agreeing with my list. You see no flaw with Apple. You're one of the sheep. That's you. Bottom line - Apple keeps removing features for NO GOOD REASON. That's the problem.
No, that's not innovation at all. If you add features constantly without figuring out which ones people don't need or use, then you'll have a bloated piece of **** that nobody is going to use. You have to add and change, sure, but you have to know when a feature is not worth supporting and axe it. People who are used to the feature will complain at first, but people get over it. Fast.
You have an excuse for everything, don't you? You just can't point a finger at Apple when they screw up. Do I need to go down the list?
- High quality screen on the 2008 Air, rendered poor in the 2010+ Airs. Don't give me bull about cost. The panels these days are literally pennies to Apple.
- 2010 Air having the backlight removed. I suppose you'll try to justify this by saying "ohohh they wanted to save battery life" Guess what? It didn't save any. Guess what else? They put it back in. Why? Because there was NO REASON to take it out in the first place. Not space (proven by the 2011 Air), not battery (proven by the 2011 Air), just a random decision to remove a feature people wanted.
- iPod Touch 4G with a piss poor quality screen. You'll probably justify this "ohhh they'll butcher iPhone sales" - no, they just want people to keep buying the newer model. If the 5G comes out with a full on Retina display, you'll see the point.
- iPod Nano relegated to a worthless music device. Justification: "ohhh nobody uses that screen anyway" - Which is why the previous gen Nano is going for premium prices on various sites right?
- iPod Shuffle released with a joke amount of storage, we're in an era where 16GB can be had for less than $5 and yet they can't see fit to at least go 8GB?
- AirPort Utility dumbed down to where you can't even open a port properly without jumping through hoops. And yes, lots of people need to open ports.
- Final Cut Pro X so bad it got lambasted by Conan O'Brien.
- Front Row removed. No support needed for this app, it's effectively a glorified RSS feed that required no logging into anything. Remove it why? Because people don't use it? A Google search disproves that theory.
- Battery indicators removed. Why? Don't tell me people didn't use them, again, a Google Search disproves it.
- IR receiver removed. Why? Why sell a remote only to remove the only way to use it? That's borderline bait-and-switch. In the case of the Air it was never there to begin with.
- Retina screen going directly against Apple's rhetoric about being friendly and recyclable.
- Lion "Server" is basically a joke. They removed everything that would have made it a server OS.
- Mac Pro "refresh" a blatant slap in the face to everyone expecting some sort of improvements. At this stage the MacBook Pro runs circles around the Mac Pro which should NOT happen. To have them invest time and resources into everything BUT the power user machine is laughable. That they'd dedicate programming time to something like Launchpad and non-user-replaceable hardware, and ignore the business user segment, is insulting.
- iPhone continues to crash more and more frequently with every new iOS version. They spend so much trying to stop jailbreakers and not enough making it stable.
I'm quite sure you'll have plenty of excuses for all of those above. Bottom line, Apple is headed in the wrong direction, fast.
Man, my head is sore after reading this thread.
"People don't use Mac Pros". Really? Has Skynet become self-aware and dispatched T1000's to serve as their main user base? Weird.
People don't use Mac Pros. If you look at the userbase of Mac Pros and compare it to the userbase of probably any other Apple machine that's currently available, you'll find that it's much much lower. There's a reason why it hasn't been updated nearly as much as any other machine in their lineup. Apple isn't going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars into R&D for a product that isn't being widely used. It doesn't make any business sense.
Even you don't have one as per your signature, yet you preach about it.
Regarding OSes on the Mac, I've found that I'm often happiest with the OS that was originally shipped with the machine. Lion runs OK on my 3 year old Mac mini with 4Gb RAM, but SL just runs better. However, if I purchase a new machine, I just don't see the point of having SL on it.