Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[iPadified]

If a desktop cant handle a desktop GPU, the form factor is wrong, simple. The current iMac design is absolute junk, and needs a complete overhaul. If I’m paying £2,500, i do not want a laptop GPU. The iMac should have a 5500/5600XT as in minimum with the option for a 5700XT.
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Source?

It is really realistic to expect an 225W 5700XT in any iMac unless the iMac is deeper? Most people here thinks that is does not matter how deep the iMac is. I disagree, at some point it will look clumsy and can only be placed towards a wall or else it will look ridiculous.

If so, iMac G4 should be used with a base inspired by the MP2013 which could silently cool 225W GPU and Comet lake CPU. Connect that to a thin screen and it will look very nice and modern.

 

[08kx250f]

Coming next week. Stay tuned for a leak tomorrow. (Not from me)

Please be legit. Dying to order a redesigned iMac.

 

[Voyageur]

If a redesign is released within a week or a month, I’m worried about its possible hardware inside. In autumn and winter, radically improved Intel processors and GPU on RDNA2 will be released, which means that we run the risk of facing the same situation when very soon, after six months or earlier, the next update with significant improvements will be released.

For a year now I have needed a new powerful working computer, but if everything develops according to the release scenario in the week, I’ll still think about whether to take a redesign on the 10th generation of Intel.

 

[Wolf1701]

For a year now I have needed a new powerful working computer, but if everything develops according to the release scenario in the week, I’ll still think about whether to take a redesign on the 10th generation of Intel.

then you have no "need"....

 

[Nismo73]

All the 27” standard configurations are earliest delivery may 27th...something‘s up.

 

[Voyageur]

then you have no "need"....

Negative. iMac 2019 does not meet the simplest requirements in a sufficient number of thunderbolt ports, so buying it makes no sense to me.

 

[Wolf1701]

Negative. iMac 2019 does not meet the simplest requirements in a sufficient number of thunderbolt ports, so buying it makes no sense to me.

again, sorry, there is what I want and what I need. iMac pro or macMini and/or tb hub should have been enough to fulfill a NEED in the past YEAR.

 

[Voyageur]

a NEED in the past YEAR.

This is the problem: personally, I am not ready to pay money for a computer for only one year, then to change it again to a suitable one. If I buy equipment, I choose it responsibly to use for many years.

And so, yes, I had an office iMac Pro from work and I used it with my own peripheral equipment. Now I do not have this machine and buying another iMac Pro for personal use is too expensive for me. Mac mini with the purchase of capable display + eGPU also gives low rate to price / quality efficiency. As a result, I can’t connect a complete set of peripherals due to a lack of ports. Therefore, this year I work on a backup machine 21.5" 2017 and wait, because there is no point in buying 2019 spec bump which will only add power, but will not change the key situation

 

[Azrael9]

As to the idea of collapsing the iMac and iMac Pro lines into one using the iMac Pro case and cooling, it would be feasible and possible.

The W-Series Xeons are just the X-Series Core i9's with ECC RAM support so Apple could conceivably just smash the lines together - I expect ECC RAM is not really critical to most iMac Pro users, but it is what comes with Xeons. Intel did launch the 10th Generation (Cascade Lake) X-Series last fall at 10, 12, 14 and 18 cores and all are at 165W TDP and priced at less than half of what the W-Series were.

Apple is clearly seeing significant drops in NAND storage prices which is why they have been doubling their base SSD capacities. So I could see them dropping Fusion Drives in favor of 512GB SSD as the base level of storage. The iMac Pro case (including cooling) also likely costs more than the iMac, so I could see Apple raising the base price by at least $100 to cover all this. Maybe raise it $200 and bump base RAM from 8GB to 16GB. I mean people are going to erupt over the loss of upgradeable RAM so might as well raise the price, too. 😛

And when you consider adding 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD to an existing base model 27" iMac is $500, paying $200 for it is a deal. 😎

So where does this leave the iMac Pro? Perhaps as an option package instead of a separate model?

MCK says a 27" miniLED display is coming so what if it becomes a BTO upgrade option like the X-Series (12-18 core) CPUs? Same with 10GB Ethernet? And workstation-class GPUs?

So you have the "base" 27" iMac with the 10500 Core i5 CPU, 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD for $1999 compared to the current 8500 Core i5, 8GB of RAM and a 1TB Fusion Drive for $1799. I like to think that reasonable people would find that a reasonable deal.

From there you can add RAM up to 256GB, storage up to 4/8TB, faster Ethernet, workstation-class GPUs and miniLED display.

How large is the price differential on the i7s vs the i5s?

On the 27 inch iMacs (no cheap computer there...) they could offer the i7 as standard and the i10 as BTO? Other than that, your specs for the next 'iMac' seem reasonable in terms of what 'we' expect or want. Eg. Ram doubling to 16 gigs and moves to SSD 500 gig? Long overdue.

Azrael.
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I think the stand is needed. I am a little tired of silver and gray aluminium to tell the truth. I really think such a XDR screen stand should be included so height can be adjusted, particularly for a 32 inch screen. Economy of scale might fix the $999.

Desktop parts will need a fair amount of depth to be cooled so even 3 cm might not it.

Whatever Apple do, do not drop the retina display experience for size of the screen. I have Thunderbolt display at work. The pixilation makes text difficult to read and it is not pleasant for the eyes.

The iMac 'stand' on the lamp luxo iMac seemed like a pricey thing but Apple manufactured that at scale and the iMac wasn't overly expensive back then. Didn't it come in at just under £1k?

As for the cooling. We just have to look at the iMac Pro. It's packing some tech' and cooling. It shouldn't be difficult Apple.

I think the 'Pro' monitor stand is a great. It's just not worth £1k. It's a lump of alu. Nicely done. But not '£1k' worth of 'nice.' It swivels and can go to portrait mode. Plenty of PC monitors do the same. It's about time the iMac had better monitor adjustability without putting that weight on a blue plastic cog. I could probably stomach a slight iMac price increase if it became 'pro' with a 32 inch 6k display and a quality stand.

What's the res' of your display at work?

For me, any upgrade to 4k and 5k or even 6k will be a world ahead of what I've got on the late 2012 iMac.

Azrael.
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It is really realistic to expect an 225W 5700XT in any iMac unless the iMac is deeper? Most people here thinks that is does not matter how deep the iMac is. I disagree, at some point it will look clumsy and can only be placed towards a wall or else it will look ridiculous.

If so, iMac G4 should be used with a base inspired by the MP2013 which could silently cool 225W GPU and Comet lake CPU. Connect that to a thin screen and it will look very nice and modern.

Yes. If the iMac becomes the iMac Pro at a mainstream price leaving the '23' incher to be the 'Mac' for the 'rest' of 'us.' The iMac Pro is already cooling 'heady' kit in terms of 18 core Xeons and run hot Vega 64s.

Unless they make it a foot deep (which they won't, it isn't going to look silly.) They already have the solution with the iMac Pro cooling more substantial kit and presumably a massive heat sink for the 18 core. I should expect the stats/tech for the new 'iMac' will be less demanding. Doubt it will go above 10 core. We may get a 5700XT. But if they can get a Vega 64 in the iMac Pro then the more efficient Navi should be ok if they upgrade to iMac Pro cooling. They're already doing it with that kind of enclosure.

£799 - £1500 for the 23 inch.
£1700-£3000 for the 27 inch.

Plenty of room there for Apple to make a buck and give the punters a deal.

As for the iMac G4. Lovely design. But can we see them going back to it? That said, the M$ Studio 2 desktop is drop dead gorgeous. And makes the current iMac design seem archaic. And I'm no M$ fan.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

If a desktop cant handle a desktop GPU, the form factor is wrong, simple. The current iMac design is absolute junk, and needs a complete overhaul. If I’m paying £2,500, i do not want a laptop GPU. The iMac should have a 5500/5600XT as in minimum with the option for a 5700XT.
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Dead right. If the desktop can't handle the desktop gpu it's wrong. Spot on.

You're right about the value statement. If I'm paying £2500 for a desktop I want a desktop gpu worthy of that price bracket. 5600XT with option for 5700XT minimum.

Azrael.
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Coming next week. Stay tuned for a leak tomorrow. (Not from me)

Der-rool, der-rool?

*braced for impact.

A 'Monday' leak, eh?

I hope so. It's been quite a wait.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Well when I mentioned using the W5700X (as found in the Mac Pro) I was told that it was too hot for an iMac Pro. But if Apple can offer it as a BTO option with, say, the W5600 as the base GPU, so much the better.

The 5700XT. Isn't the Navi more efficient than the Vega 64 which runs hotter? The latter of which can cope in the iMac enclosure with cooling. Think the V64 is downclocked compared to its desktop counterparts?

The 5500/5600XT. Is there 'that much' difference performance wise to a 580?

https://www.userbenchmark.com/EFps/,5600-XT,,_,580,,_CSGO,,9600K.OC

,

5700XT is step up. I wouldn't reserve that just for the iMac Pro. The iMac is plenty expensive as is. The 5700XT isn't a high end card from AMD. Wasn't it a low end card that they price bumped to a mainstream/mid-range. That said, it offers alot of bang for the buck. Worthy card. Which should be accessible to iMac customers in the £1700-£3k range.

5500/5600XT as BTO? MEH! A 5600/5700 as standard gpus with the XT 5700 at BTO? I could stomach that.

There is always the option of running a Big Navi gpu in a TB enclosure later this year when 'Big' launches...?

But it's always nice to have the option of a decent gpu inside the iMac.

Sounds like all is going to be revealed real soon.

Azrael.

 

[mindquest]

Who else is just hitting F5 on Prosser's Twitter page for some sort of sign?!?! I need an iMac bad!!

jon prosser (@jon_prosser) on X

iPad mini fan account | @frontpagetech

twitter.com

 

[Azrael9]

Who else is just hitting F5 on Prosser's Twitter page for some sort of sign?!?! I need an iMac bad!!

jon prosser (@jon_prosser) on X

iPad mini fan account | @frontpagetech

twitter.com

*Jeeze*, you got it as bad as me, kiddo. 😉

*coffee shakes...*

*Addicted to iMac rumours and news.

Not long to go now...? My iMac is 'dead' (or the walking dead...) as I'm typing this from bootcamp Windows. (Please, no jokes...)

So...need....i....Mac.....*crawls along the desert of Apple's desktop offerings...searching for teh Mac desktop water...

Azrael.

 

[askunk]

I need - therefore they can be dealbreakers - GPUs over 10 Tflops for work reasons... and also because I want to run Flight Simulator 2020 with no compromises 😀
I need BT 5.0 because I work often on the phone or on VoIP switching from a device to another, sometimes while walking, and a better webcam (at least 1080p) for my conference calls.
I need, want and wouldn't conceive an HDD in my computer, even for the base configurations. I want a 2020 computer, with a bloody fast 2TB SSD (or two in RAID).

I am ready to pay the RAM tax, although I would really appreciate an accessible slot. I am not going for less than 32GB, ideally 40/48.

About the rest. it is more what I want than what I need. CPUs are progressing very slowly. Therefore, unless Apple comes out with a very powerful ARM or an AMD chip, I would paradoxically buy the next one even with the 9900K inside 😀

I would enjoy Dolby Atmos audio, HDR screens and Wifi 6. Most of all, thinner bezels. Colour range? The actual is more than enough for me. I would argue the IMP would need a more appropriate screen that would justify the higher cost.

27, 28, 29" or more? Do as you wish Apple, just give me small bezels to enjoy the screen also when the computer is on. 🙂

Ports? I am good if you keep at least 2 USBA. Happy if you make it compatible with USB4. Enthusiast if you bring to 4 the TB3 ports (or add 2 USBC 3.2 Gen 2)

New keyboard? New mouse? I don't care. Happy if they come out, perfectly fine with what I have already. However, I would enjoy unlocking my computer with something else than my keyboard, like I do with ALL the other devices.

Whether it is TouchID, FaceID, VoiceID 😀 I'm ok, just don't let me type every time I get back to my desk!
A powerful CPU and a Tx chip and you still don't have enough compute power to recognise me? 😀 (a point in favour of a camera upgrade)

I run most of my software on macOS, some technical software (VR included) and a few games on Win.
And ARM transition could show incredible improvements for Final Cut, but I really doubt it will perform like an x64 running Win. Even on a virtual machine like Parallels would - I think - run Win better than an ARM, plus you may see lots of software houses moving away from macOS, just when some were getting closer to write for both platforms. It took years to finally have a decent AutoCAD version for Mac, ArchiCAD, all the rendering software... how could you think that they will all rewrite their code?

It will be a very slow transition, imho: not less than 5-7 years. We can only hope Apple makes it less painful than the previous ones.

 

[macmyworld]

Who else is just hitting F5 on Prosser's Twitter page for some sort of sign?!?! I need an iMac bad!!

jon prosser (@jon_prosser) on X

iPad mini fan account | @frontpagetech

twitter.com

Noticed on May 6 he said there was an iMac ready to ship. This must be it.

 

[Moonjumper]

As for the iMac G4. Lovely design. But can we see them going back to it? That said, the M$ Studio 2 desktop is drop dead gorgeous. And makes the current iMac design seem archaic. And I'm no M$ fan.

Azrael.

The iMac G4 is gorgeous. It was nearly my first Mac, but I was talked out of it by a Mac owner. My first iMac ended up being the first white 24" iMac early in the Intel era. But I now have an old iMac G4 that is great music player.

I would love a see a return to that format, and the very nice MS Studio 2 is the nearest to that now, but it runs Windows. I would be extremely very happy if this reimagined iMac G4 concept below resembles a redesigned iMac launching soon:

More images: https://www.behance.net/gallery/70356143/iMac-G4-New-Edition

 

[Azrael9]

The iMac G4 is gorgeous. It was nearly my first Mac, but I was talked out of it by a Mac owner. My first iMac ended up being the first white 24" iMac early in the Intel era. But I now have an old iMac G4 that is great music player.

I would love a see a return to that format, and the very nice MS Studio 2 is the nearest to that now, but it runs Windows. I would be extremely very happy if this reimagined iMac G4 concept below resembles a redesigned iMac launching soon:

That is obscenely gorgeous. :O

*blushes. 'Well, hello lady...'

The only improvement to the G4 i-Lamp would have been a rotate to portrait aspect. Asides from that. Oh my...stars...and garters...

You were talked out of buying the lamp iMac G4? Noooooooooooooo! Mac owners, what do they know? 😀

Still, *points at self...I should have bought the 'grater back in the day...and I got the 24 inch iMac instead.

*bows head....*puts dunces cap on.

Azrael.

 

[gusping]

Dead right. If the desktop can't handle the desktop gpu it's wrong. Spot on.

You're right about the value statement. If I'm paying £2500 for a desktop I want a desktop gpu worthy of that price bracket. 5600XT with option for 5700XT minimum.

Azrael.
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Der-rool, der-rool?

*braced for impact.

A 'Monday' leak, eh?

I hope so. It's been quite a wait.

Azrael.

I’ve noticed we have very similar demands for our iMac, aka desktop performance... haha

and also because I want to run Flight Simulator 2020 with no compromises 😀

Count me in too! It looks AMAZING! I was planning on building a Gaming PC, but £1700-2000 on a Windows machine I’ll only use for gaming seems a bit much. Plus, I’m playing less as i get older. I’m going to settle with an Xbox Series X unless Big Navi is 2080 Ti performance at a good price.

 

[askunk]

Count me in too! It looks AMAZING!

Exactly! 🙂

The problem is that in order to run smooth in 4K (let alone 5K) it needs at least a Radeon 7 (13.8 Tflops) and the Vega 64 is 12.7 (IMP prerogative), my fear is that iMacs won't allow for high end unless they decide to kill the IMP or AMD comes out with a new range of RDNA2 that fits better.

The 5700XT sucks at 9.7 Tflops.
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How does 1440p look on the 27"? Too blurred?

 

[Azrael9]

I’ve noticed we have very similar demands for our iMac, aka desktop performance... haha

Count me in too! It looks AMAZING! I was planning on building a Gaming PC, but £1700-2000 on a Windows machine I’ll only use for gaming seems a bit much. Plus, I’m playing less as i get older. I’m going to settle with an Xbox Series X unless Big Navi is 2080 Ti performance at a good price.

We do, Gusping. (Hello there.)

Same here. 😀

Yeah. Listen, I just want Apple to make a kick az iMac for all my fellow Mac luminaries here. I want that for all the Mac community. Not just myself. That design above would be a barn storming design in space grey. Back to the light.

I took was going to build a Hack/Gaming PC dual boot. (and I will...) But I thought I'd give Apple the 1st throw of the hat into the ring with the new iMac. It's up to them. Apple/Windows. They have to be competitive. On software/hardware and price.

As for your £1800 budget. How I rationalised a £2k pc gaming rig? If I was going the Hack' AMD open route...I'd consider £1k for a 12 core AMD 5700XT gpu Mac a bargain. And a £1k PC of the same a value proposition. So £2k to have both? Bargain?

Aye. I can't justify alot of coin on PC 'just' for gaming. There is one 'old' game I play from 2004. That's it. (And it fried my iMac gpu...)

I don't think it's that bad an idea to get an Xbox or PS5. They're going to absolutely kick az. A true generational leap, especially with those 'insta' SSDs and IO throughput. RDNA2 and ray tracing? No doubt. Cheaper than buying a 2080 Ti. For sure. Big Navi is going to beat a 'Ti', probably. But prob' still cost more than the PS5 or Xbox next gen.

Can always eGPU a Big Navi to your next Mac purchase. And PC tower can be decent in the £1k-1300 price range with a 12 core AMD and (!) a 5700XT IF you shop around and build your pre-build carefully.

Depends on what you're budget is. I'm planning to have an iMac, Hack/PC workstation and a PS5...in time. I'll start with the iMac if it is worthy. (I'll get one of those for my Mum. I bought her the PS3 with Batman. She's still got the highest bone crunching combo...)

Azrael.
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Exactly! 🙂

The problem is that in order to run smooth in 4K (let alone 5K) it needs at least a Radeon 7 (13.8 Tflops) and the Vega 64 is 12.7 (IMP prerogative), my fear is that iMacs won't allow for high end unless they decide to kill the IMP or AMD comes out with a new range of RDNA2 that fits better.

The 5700XT sucks at 9.7 Tflops.
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How does 1440p look on the 27"? Too blurred?

I have to agree with the 9.7 Tflops. So the 5700XT is a big so so. I don't think it's a match for the previous gen in Tflops? Or compute? It's a low end card masquerading as a mid-range card. It's so so. Sure. A big leap up for me on a 680MX GPU from NV. But?

We've been bouncing around the 're-branding' game via process nodes with AMD. As AMD wrestled with computation vs gaming performance. And wrestled with the performance and efficiency kicking Nvidia gave them.

Big Navi probably represents a true departure from Polaris and Navi in terms of finally putting all that to bed and getting back into high end cards...and be a gpu that starts to chase down the 20 Tflops number.

The GPUs from Nv and AMD stagnated for years. We're now on the cusp of things making decisive leaps forward again.

The RDNA 2 is late. It feels late. The 5700XT has been around for a while now. And no mainstream desktop Mac has it. But the RDNA2 flood gates will open. And that will benefit both PC and Mac buyers as well as console players.

As for 1440p. I always found it hard on my eyes. Really 'pulls' them. I noticed the headaches going from my old 24 incher to the 27 incher. Tinier user Interface elements. Not quite sharp enough. I prefered the 24 inch iMac's res' at 1600x1200 instead. Almost blurry, yes. I'd agree with that. 4k to 5k is going to be a huge leap for me. If Apple surprises and puts a 6k 32 incher in there? Heavenly waters for my eyes. So I guess I prefer a hi resolution at a bigger screen size. If that makes sense.


Azrael.

 

[Voyageur]

Exactly! 🙂

The problem is that in order to run smooth in 4K (let alone 5K) it needs at least a Radeon 7 (13.8 Tflops) and the Vega 64 is 12.7 (IMP prerogative), my fear is that iMacs won't allow for high end unless they decide to kill the IMP or AMD comes out with a new range of RDNA2 that fits better.

The 5700XT sucks at 9.7 Tflops.
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How does 1440p look on the 27"? Too blurred?

You need to decide what is more important for you: the GPU computing power in operation or the GPU capabilities in games. In the second case, the number of teraflops is not always a determining property. The RDNA architecture is much better adapted for games, so if you look at live tests, you will see that the 5700XT goes almost on par with Vega 64 directly in the FPS.
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I also want to add that with a high degree of probability we can wait for some custom-made GPU unique just for iMac. Just as it was with Vega 48.

 

[Azrael9]

You need to decide what is more important for you: the GPU computing power in operation or the GPU capabilities in games. In the second case, the number of teraflops is not always a determining property. The RDNA architecture is much better adapted for games, so if you look at live tests, you will see that the 5700XT goes almost on par with Vega 64 directly in the FPS.

Aye. Fair point. It's on a par with the V64 on games. True. Re: Tflops not always being an absolute determination.

The Tflops between the PS5 and Xbox 'Next' (whatever it's called...) are separate by 2 Tflops in favour of the XBox. But the Sony is clocked higher and has some dark horse IO/SSD stuff going on which I suspect may be more transformative.

We'll see how that 'design' battle pans out. But it's an exciting battle pending from a 'neutral' point of view.

Azrael.

 

[askunk]

I also want to add that with a high degree of probability we can wait for some custom-made GPU unique just for iMac. Just as it was with Vega 48.

Yes, or get an iMac with soldered upcoming RDNA2 cards before their actual introduction as dGPU as it has been for the IMP.

 

[gusping]

Exactly! 🙂

The problem is that in order to run smooth in 4K (let alone 5K) it needs at least a Radeon 7 (13.8 Tflops) and the Vega 64 is 12.7 (IMP prerogative), my fear is that iMacs won't allow for high end unless they decide to kill the IMP or AMD comes out with a new range of RDNA2 that fits better.

The 5700XT sucks at 9.7 Tflops.
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How does 1440p look on the 27"? Too blurred?

Yea.... The requirements for that game are going to be very heavy. Thankfully, 60fps will be fine, and 120+fps isn't needed!

 

[Moonjumper]

That is obscenely gorgeous. :O

*blushes. 'Well, hello lady...'

The only improvement to the G4 i-Lamp would have been a rotate to portrait aspect. Asides from that. Oh my...stars...and garters...

You were talked out of buying the lamp iMac G4? Noooooooooooooo! Mac owners, what do they know? 😀

Still, *points at self...I should have bought the 'grater back in the day...and I got the 24 inch iMac instead.

*bows head....*puts dunces cap on.

Azrael.

I nearly bought a 'grater when I got my 24" iMac, but I'm happy with the decision I made. It served me well for many years, then sold it for a good price.

p.s. I had added a link to more images of the iMac G4 concept in my previous post. It really is fantastic (although the touchscreen keyboard with it is much less interesting, I just want an iMac with a matching keyboard, not white keys).