Will you keep buying iPad or change to Windows 8 tablet?

[jsh1120]

The Samsung Windows 7 Tablet that was just announced is $1099 (at the low end), so I'm just reporting the current state of affairs. Sure, you can get a notebook that runs it for less, but that's not a tablet now, is it?

There's simply no way to do a 1:1 comparison today, the Windows hardware/software doesn't exist and Apple's not giving you their 2012 preview any time soon.

Well, as you note, there is no way to do a 1:1 comparison. The Samsung "tablet" is more comparable to the Lenovo X220T notebook than to anything in the pure tablet world. It has 4Gigs of memory, runs an OS designed for a laptop, and sports a Core I5 processor. I suspect that almost none will be sold without a full 128G SSD, keyboard, and dock, bringing it to the $1349 price. That's hefty for a "tablet" but it's about $200-$300 less than the comparable touch enabled Lenovo tablet/notebook and has a bigger screen.

In short, it's a notebook in with a 1366x768 touch screen. As the folks at Laptop Magazine note, it's simply a Series 9 laptop in a different form factor, not really a "tablet" in the current sense of that term.

Samsung is clearly hedging its bets with various form factors, features, and capabilities in different models, some looking like "tablets" as defined by the iPad, some as one-hand devices (the Note) and some like this one as a (pretty powerful) notebook with a detachable keyboard. Its natural competition is not the iPad; it's the Lenovo X220T on one side and the 11" MBA on the other.

With Windows 8 the positioning may shift significantly. Much more comprehensive touch screen support and presumably the potential to run on less powerful chips but with a full scale PC operating system. There will remain a significant market for devices like the Samsung "note-let" that bridge the gap between tablets and full scale notebook computers but I suspect we'll see models at about $800 that tilt toward the tablet but still provide more comprehensive support for true PC applications.

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Check back in two or three years when this is actually out.

In "two or three years" the first generation of Windows 8 tablets will be obsolete. I'd put money down that the the first generation is here before the iPad 3.

 

[62tele]

Read the headline:

http://gizmodo.com/5839665/windows-8-slate-hands-on-its-fantastic-but-dont-sell-your-ipad

It's called competition. If we didn't have it, Apple wouldn't have to do anything to improve their stuff.

So, are you touting a headline that says "don't sell your iPad" as proof of impending doom for the iPad?
MS has a developmental product which one writer calls "schizophrenic", running on hardware that runs too hot, with poor battery life and this will be incentive for Apple to "innovate"?
I think Apple will continue to develop iOS and it's hardware. It's far from a mature product so it has a lot of upside.

 

[19101984]

yeah, but microsoft is unlikely to build the tablet itself. battery life and price aren't in their hands.

i was hoping they would impose strict criteria on their tablet making partners like how they did with windows phone 7 (granted with diff specs)

 

[iKIKO]

if its as ugly as windows pc im out. i have been using mac about a year now and i cant even imagine me using windows again. mac and ios rules

 

[jaytv111]

I read on Anandtech that you can't run non-Metro apps on the ARM version, and the ARM version will restrict you to loading apps through the Microsoft Store. This basically thwarted my fantasy of running all my current Windows 7 applications on an ARM Windows 8 tablet. So as far as I can tell, there's no real advantage to Windows 8 compared to iOS and Android on ARM tablets. Android Honeycomb has tons of hardware support already (with USB devices and such) while iOS has a huge developer base. Windows 8 will probably work well with x86, but it's got an uphill battle with ARM tablets.

 

[ruvil]

Are you serious, windows 8 on a tablet? No thanks

I prefer to use iOS...

 

[ditzy]

I suspect, though I don't have evidence for this suspicion that if you want to do anything more than what you would be able to do on an iPad you'll have to leave the metro UI. Which would put you into a desktop UI, which isn't designed for touch.

 

[spiderman0616]

So, are you touting a headline that says "don't sell your iPad" as proof of impending doom for the iPad?
MS has a developmental product which one writer calls "schizophrenic", running on hardware that runs too hot, with poor battery life and this will be incentive for Apple to "innovate"?
I think Apple will continue to develop iOS and it's hardware. It's far from a mature product so it has a lot of upside.

I'm not sure why you would have taken it that way. I posted that link to say, "Hey, don't panic." Competitors are doing what they usually do--they're seeing Apple succeed at something and trying to copy it.

Honestly, I'd much rather see Microsoft succeed at tablets than Android. I'm way more likely to switch to an MS product than a Google product.

 

[jsh1120]

I suspect, though I don't have evidence for this suspicion that if you want to do anything more than what you would be able to do on an iPad you'll have to leave the metro UI. Which would put you into a desktop UI, which isn't designed for touch.

Even if that's true, I don't think I'd want a touch-enabled Word or Excel. The point is that the ability to run native PC applications is a major advantage, even if they're not "designed for touch."

 

[tmarks11]

Read the handwriting on the wall...

1. Apple develops the MBA 11, which is not significantly bigger then the ipad, and has decent performance, long battery life, and essentially passive coolng.
2. Apple makes Lion, starting to merge features of iOS and OSX
3. Apple starts a desktop app store, developers jump over and sell "desktop" versions of their applications, starting the development of a healthy ecosystem

The next step of this natural progression is Apple introduces the "iPad Pro", running LION. Probably in the $800-1000 range. Not tomorrow, not this year, but perhaps coincidental with win8 tablets hitting the shelves. Apple has a good sense of timing.

Microsoft will be dead in the water with their win8 tablet, since the ipad pro WILL be able to run all OSX software, and has a pre-existing app store with tens of thousands of titles.

Where Microsoft has continually failed (starting with windows tablets and continuing with windows UMPC) is in developing the total user experience. UMPC was great (and way ahead of their time), except there was NO software that was real useful on such a small screen. Yeah, I cold run all my desktop software (and did), but that was the extent of it. Impossible to fnd anything else.

 

[Uplift]

Read the handwriting on the wall...

1. Apple develops the MBA 11, which is not significantly bigger then the ipad, and has decent performance, long battery life, and essentially passive coolng.
2. Apple makes Lion, starting to merge features of iOS and OSX
3. Apple starts a desktop app store, developers jump over and sell "desktop" versions of their applications, starting the development of a healthy ecosystem

The next step of this natural progression is Apple introduces the "iPad Pro", running LION. Probably in the $800-1000 range.

Microsoft will be dead in the water with their win8 tablet, since the ipad pro WILL be able to run all OSX software, and has a pre-existing app store with tens of thousands of titles.

WhereMicrosoft has continually failed (starting with windows tablets and continuing with windows UMPC) is in developing the total user experience. UMPC was great (and way ahead of their time), except there was NO software that was real useful on such a small screen. Yeah, I cold run all my desktop software (and did), but that was the extent of it. Impossible to fnd anything else.

This.

Don't get me wrong the main Metro interface does look nice, it swishes and bursts with colour and certainly looks refreshing over the iOS interface, however as soon as you leave the start screen your presented with whitespace hell, from here on it's hit or miss, the browser preview i seen was awful.

i truly believe apple will head in the direction you said, with a lovely ecosystem, i'll be riding it out with Apple, almost all tech i buy now is based around if it can work well with iphones, ipods, ipads, osx, etc..

 

[urkel]

The next step of this natural progression is Apple introduces the "iPad Pro", running LION. Probably in the $800-1000 range.

I dont disagree that a pro level iPad is coming, but why isnt the natural progression an "iMacbook Air"? The limitations of the iPad isnt the OS, its that without more built in input options (hardware keyboard, mouse, trackpad) that make a standard workflow more functional and faster. So fully adopting iOS into touchscreen notebooks seems to be a more practical future to be the bridge between the two OS.

Microsoft will be dead in the water with their win8 tablet, since the ipad pro WILL be able to run all OSX software, and has a pre-existing app store with tens of thousands of titles.

[I'm going to play devils advocate here so dont shoot me. My preference for primary machines is still with Apple products but I'm still very interested in what everyone else is doing.]

How many people do you actually believe want OSX software on an iPad? Integrating OSX into iOS appeals to a very small portion of iPad users. But on the other end then the formula to making the Windows users interested is to give a solid TABLET OS with Windows available when necessary. And Win8 seems to have that because the Metro UI is far more exciting than anything Apple or Google is doing and their idea that "The Desktop is now an App" does minimize the emphasis on classic windows yet retains its functionality for when users feel its necessary.

The difference between Apple and MS is that MS releases developer previews very early while Apple chooses to give end users a first look at FINISHED products. Neither side is right or wrong with it, but actually having the product in hand makes it easier to make educated judgements on concepts and how they will fit in the market. Win8 is still far away but IF you used the latest dev then it seems that Steve Jobs declared the "Post PC Era" but Microsoft is making the first leap into it. And to be honest, I'm much more interested in MetroUI Tablet also runs Windows than an iPad that also runs OSX.

WhereMicrosoft has continually failed (starting with windows tablets and continuing with windows UMPC) is in developing the total user experience. UMPC was great (and way ahead of their time), except there was NO software that was real useful on such a small screen. Yeah, I cold run all my desktop software (and did), but that was the extent of it. Impossible to fnd anything else.

MS failures (and google as well) are because they publicly risk trying too many things. While Apples perceived success is due to them working (and failing) at new ventures internally and only going public when they know they nailed it. Im sure one day we're going to hear a tell all book about how many products Apple failed at that the public never knew about.

MS is actually in a pretty good position right now because expectations are so low. IF win8 grabs hold then this will probably be their most significant success in their company history. And if it fails then nobody will be surprised.

 

[Sensamic]

Will people settle on 2012 or 2013 for iOS 6 and 7 still without true multitasking?

 

[Signor S.]

I have a hunch, just a hunch that the OS for iPad will be way better than the OS for the Windows 8 tablets in the coming years.

From what I have experienced with Microsoft, they don't make things work like Apple does. It is so frustrating having to do a restart of your Windows laptop every other time you turn it on thanks to the software. That doesn't happen with Apple's products. Until Microsoft makes their product work seamlessy, (both hardware and software) I will be supporting Apple.

My $0.02

 

[jsh1120]

...It is so frustrating having to do a restart of your Windows laptop every other time you turn it on thanks to the software. That doesn't happen with Apple's products. Until Microsoft makes their product work seamlessy, (both hardware and software) I will be supporting Apple.

My $0.02

I'm sitting here surrounded by three Windows 7 machines and an iPad. Apart from the fact that I try to save the planet a few pounds of carbon emissions from time to time, I haven't had to restart any of the Windows machines in the last six months.

 

[Signor S.]

I'm sitting here surrounded by three Windows 7 machines and an iPad. Apart from the fact that I try to save the planet a few pounds of carbon emissions from time to time, I haven't had to restart any of the Windows machines in the last six months.

I run on Vista and not Windows 7, so I think therein lies the problem.

 

[darngooddesign]

I run on Vista and not Windows 7, so I think therein lies the problem.

They only time I have to restart my work win 7 tower is when I turn it on each Monday morning.

 

[jsh1120]

I run on Vista and not Windows 7, so I think therein lies the problem.

My sincere sympathies. And I'm not being sarcastic. If you value your time at more than $1 an hour, get rid of Vista and upgrade to Win 7.

 

[19101984]

I dont disagree that a pro level iPad is coming, but why isnt the natural progression an "iMacbook Air"? The limitations of the iPad isnt the OS, its that without more built in input options (hardware keyboard, mouse, trackpad) that make a standard workflow more functional and faster. So fully adopting iOS into touchscreen notebooks seems to be a more practical future to be the bridge between the two OS.


[I'm going to play devils advocate here so dont shoot me. My preference for primary machines is still with Apple products but I'm still very interested in what everyone else is doing.]

How many people do you actually believe want OSX software on an iPad? Integrating OSX into iOS appeals to a very small portion of iPad users. But on the other end then the formula to making the Windows users interested is to give a solid TABLET OS with Windows available when necessary. And Win8 seems to have that because the Metro UI is far more exciting than anything Apple or Google is doing and their idea that "The Desktop is now an App" does minimize the emphasis on classic windows yet retains its functionality for when users feel its necessary.

The difference between Apple and MS is that MS releases developer previews very early while Apple chooses to give end users a first look at FINISHED products. Neither side is right or wrong with it, but actually having the product in hand makes it easier to make educated judgements on concepts and how they will fit in the market. Win8 is still far away but IF you used the latest dev then it seems that Steve Jobs declared the "Post PC Era" but Microsoft is making the first leap into it. And to be honest, I'm much more interested in MetroUI Tablet also runs Windows than an iPad that also runs OSX.


MS failures (and google as well) are because they publicly risk trying too many things. While Apples perceived success is due to them working (and failing) at new ventures internally and only going public when they know they nailed it. Im sure one day we're going to hear a tell all book about how many products Apple failed at that the public never knew about.

MS is actually in a pretty good position right now because expectations are so low. IF win8 grabs hold then this will probably be their most significant success in their company history. And if it fails then nobody will be surprised.

i like the concept that MS has whereby the desktop is now an app. loving the Metro UI definitely. it looks amazing and isn't something that has been done before. i'm really hoping for an iPad pro on the other hand. amazing battery life and you can run OSX apps when you need.

and c'mon. it's urkel. steve frickin urkel. how can any of you disagree with him?

 

[trip1ex]

MS is going the wrong direction. IF you want Windows 8 to actually run on your tablet you're going to be purchasing a big heavy hot slab of plastic.

And then you won't like it as a tablet. So what's the point? You're going to need a keyboard for serious work and then.....you are back at square one - purchasing a laptop for probably less money with more power.

 

[trip1ex]

Will people settle on 2012 or 2013 for iOS 6 and 7 still without true multitasking?

I think the multi-tasking is good enough. IT's pretty fast to switch between apps as it is because of the flash memory. iOS 5 brings a few gestures to the table that lets you switch between apps more seamlessly from what I read. I don't think there will be alot of difference between that and switching between programs in memory.

Plus you have to realize the advantages of the way Apple does things. You act like there is no trade-off here.

The big tradeoff is better battery life because programs don't have to sit in memory and you don't need as much memory then. Not as many resources will be tied up either.

Then you have less crashes and problems as well.

I believe you are giving too much weight to a product that isn't due out for a good year. IT's pretty easy to talk about something that isn't here yet. Let's wait until it actually arrives.

 

[darngooddesign]

Will people settle on 2012 or 2013 for iOS 6 and 7 still without true multitasking?

Besides not being able to listen to a video in the background, what is the current setup not doing for you?

 

[fertilized-egg]

Besides not being able to listen to a video in the background, what is the current setup not doing for you?

One of my personal favorite features of iOS is its ability to play a video in the background. I get frustrated with my Android phone because I cannot do it so easily. With my iPhone, i can play pretty much anything in the background and it's very handy to play music off Youtube, not to mention just to listen to discussion videos while doing other stuff. Ditto for web page embedded audios.

Alas many people don't know of this useful feature as with other useful stuff, like the two finger scroll and even things like four finger gestures.

I believe you are giving too much weight to a product that isn't due out for a good year. IT's pretty easy to talk about something that isn't here yet. Let's wait until it actually arrives.

Precisely why Microsoft is doing it. They desperately need mindshare with Apple and, especially Google, taking up so much attention nowadays. Remeber the Microsoft Courier? It was essentially nothing more than a rendered concept with no substance yet the internet was buzzing. Microsoft knows it can drum up interest by promising the future first.

The party most affected by this would be Google I'd think. They are both competing for the Anti-Apple geek crowd and, more importantly, they both have same hardware partners. we already saw with Windows Phone 7 where the hardware makers mostly treated WP7 as an afterthought and it really hurt MS. Microsoft will try extremely hard to avoid that, especially with Google moving into the Intel arena.

 

[darngooddesign]

One of my personal favorite features of iOS is its ability to play a video in the background. I get frustrated with my Android phone because I cannot do it so easily. With my iPad, i can play pretty much anything in the background and it's very handy to play music off Youtube, not to mention just to listen to discussion videos while doing other stuff. Ditto for web page embedded audios.

Alas many people don't know of this useful feature as with other useful stuff, like the two finger scroll and even things like four finger gestures.

When I play a youtube video and press the home button the sound stops; this is with both the site and app. Same goes for the Videos app.

 

[i0Nic]

It will be interesting to see how things pan out - obviously iOS is going to be different by iOS 6, which will be the operating system when the first Windows 8 tablet ships.

I hope Apple continue in the direction of unifying iOS and OSX, with features from the two systems flowing into each other creating one platform.

I think by the time iOS 7 and the next version of OSX are released in 2013, we will be very close to one platform.

There are features that I would love to see from platforms like Android and Windows 8 into Apple's mobile OS.

1. No more screens of app icons
Whether it's tiles, widgets or notifications or some amalgam of the three, I want to see something other than static icons on my screen. This has to be an area that Apple have identified as needing a change, and I hope by the next release we have something to compare with Windows metro tiles.

I really like the tiles concept of Metro, if there is one thing from that operating system I would love to see translated into iOS it is this.

2. True multitasking - two or more apps one on screen
Windows 8 has a cool feature where you can slide in two apps at the same time. So you can have a smaller twitter window open while you're in the browser. This is a fantastic feature and would be much welcomed.

3. Better app switching
Double clicking the home button and flicking between app icons is a very static, inefficient way to switch between apps. What Apple should do is copy Web OS 'cards' concept of app switching, or even just copy their own Safari page switching.