Windows 10 on MacBook

[boltjames]

My God. I've been sat looking at "Getting Windows Ready
Do not turn off your computer"
for the past 15 minutes. This is what I hate about Windows.

Last month Microsoft released its first major update for Windows 10 and it took me a good 30 minutes to get the whole update, reboot, and get back in business. Perhaps after your initial install it got the ping to pull down this large November update.

BJ

 

[dogslobber]

It takes a whole 5 minutes to install AVG or any number of free programs that ensure a virus-free experience, hardly a waste of energy.

Speaking first-hand, I've been using Windows machines of various shapes and sizes for 20+ years and haven't encountered a single problem. These old 90's myths you resuscitate as gospel died along with the OS wars a decade ago. Apple won the mobile space, Microsoft won the desktop, all is well.

BJ

This isn't a my OS is better than your OS discussion. It's a basic fundamental fact you can't use Microsoft without running some number of bizarre programs that attempt to protect you. Then those only protect you from the things that are known and not the unknowns that can cause who knows what havoc when running Microsoft. I mean, crypto malware, drive by ad downloads causing no needed user interaction to install who knows what key logging trojans, amongst other assortments. It's a recipe for disaster.

The real test is whether you'd enter your banking info into a PC running Microsoft. If the answer is Yes then your bank shouldn't indemnify you for your losses.

 

[boltjames]

This isn't a my OS is better than your OS discussion. It's a basic fundamental fact you can't use Microsoft without running some number of bizarre programs that attempt to protect you. Then those only protect you from the things that are known and not the unknowns that can cause who knows what havoc when running Microsoft. I mean, crypto malware, drive by ad downloads causing no needed user interaction to install who knows what key logging trojans, amongst other assortments. It's a recipe for disaster.

The real test is whether you'd enter your banking info into a PC running Microsoft. If the answer is Yes then your bank shouldn't indemnify you for your losses.

More ancient history full of untruths and mythology. 1990's stereotypes are no longer applicable.

And as if Apple was holier than thou, OSX has malware protection, has had it for years since a well publicized Java attack. Some good factual information is here:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/can-macs-get-viruses/

Turns out that Microsoft has gotten very good at the art of virus/malware protection and Apple has brushed it off when they shouldn't have. Either way, the only people who get attacked like this are your grandparents because they didn't get the memo to stop clicking executable attachments in emails. Everyone else born after Prohibition, they are protected by Windows Defender (bundled with all Windows installations) or a third party app like AVG that's more advanced.

BJ

 

[dogslobber]

More ancient history full of untruths and mythology. 1990's stereotypes are no longer applicable.

1990s? But XP wasn't released until August 2001! The 1990s called asking for their next century OS that was still supported until 2014 back!

 

[SteveJUAE]

My God. I've been sat looking at "Getting Windows Ready
Do not turn off your computer"
for the past 15 minutes. This is what I hate about Windows.

Come on now that's hardly end of the world stuff and this is soo much better

I'm sure you have been pleasantly surprised with how easy your rMB has handled Win 10

 

[SteveJUAE]

This isn't a my OS is better than your OS discussion. It's a basic fundamental fact you can't use Microsoft without running some number of bizarre programs that attempt to protect you. Then those only protect you from the things that are known and not the unknowns that can cause who knows what havoc when running Microsoft. I mean, crypto malware, drive by ad downloads causing no needed user interaction to install who knows what key logging trojans, amongst other assortments. It's a recipe for disaster.

The real test is whether you'd enter your banking info into a PC running Microsoft. If the answer is Yes then your bank shouldn't indemnify you for your losses.

As you note we all know why you have additional security measures on Windows platform and likewise Windows users are aware and it's unavoidable if you choose the most popular OS with the most software. It's the price you pay for greater freedom of choice.

The recipe must still be in the prep stage as the world is still spinning

It's not a number of bizarre programmes most have one that's relatively invisible and far less intrusive than eg ITunes or apple store notifications requests to login passwords etc.

Most good banks have additional methods: chip and pin, sms notifications, autonomous encrypted key generators, automated calls with security codes, authorisation sms codes, screen selection to avoid KB logging etc

These protect you regardless of OS, I hope your accounts have them

The worst one is I also receive sms notifications of my wife's CC transactions that just runs my battery down, daily LOL

I was amazed in the US when I lived there that most day to day credit card transitions were authorized by just using your zip code and not even a personalised pin code.

 

[lite426]

Come on now that's hardly end of the world stuff and this is soo much better

View attachment 603541

I'm sure you have been pleasantly surprised with how easy your rMB has handled Win 10

I have found Bootcamp to run Windows 10 significantly smoother than Parallels, definitely. That was probably more a fault of Windows 10 itself. What was annoying was how it just stuck there without any progress bar to give an indicator of how long was left, no simple notification beforehand to tell me what it was doing.

Unfortunately, today I've noticed yet more issues with Bootcamp. They just keep cropping up. Unable to use the keyboard controls for volume or keyboard backlight. Mouse click "sticks" when I go to highlight something, I have to click again to unclick it. None of these issues alone would be the end of the world, but combined they make for a far less satisfactory experience for me, than how the MacBook could potetially be on Windows.

 

[boltjames]

Unfortunately, today I've noticed yet more issues with Bootcamp. They just keep cropping up. Unable to use the keyboard controls for volume or keyboard backlight.

You've just been updated to the November update for Windows 10 which is major and causes a few bumps to Boot Camp.

To fix the keyboard controls for volume and keyboard backlight, first shut the notebook down. Then reboot to OSX. Then shut down. Then boot into Windows 10. That should solve the problem. If it doesn't, you need to reinstall the Boot Camp drivers (see earlier post, download them on the OSX side to a thumb drive, bring them over to the Windows side to install).

It's a strange Apple sequencing thing. Boot Camp drivers don't like having Windows installed 'over' them; they like to be installed 'over' Windows 10.

BJ

 

[oneMadRssn]

More ancient history full of untruths and mthology. 1990's stereotypes are no longer applicable.

And as if Apple was holier than thou, OSX has malware protection, has had it for years since a well publicized Java attack. Some good factual information is here:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/can-macs-get-viruses/

Turns out that Microsoft has gotten very good at the art of virus/malware protection and Apple has brushed it off when they shouldn't have. Either way, the only people who get attacked like this are your grandparents because they didn't get the memo to stop clicking executable attachments in emails. Everyone else born after Prohibition, they are protected by Windows Defender (bundled with all Windows installations) or a third party app like AVG that's more advanced.

BJ

Some good factual information the article you linked:

“We have discovered and registered more than 48 million new unique malware samples this year alone, but more than 98% have been written for the Windows platform,” says Andreas Marx, AV-Test CEO, “Less than 5,000 new viruses were written for Mac OS X, but these kinds of malicious software do exist.”

You can say this is only because OS X is less popular, or niche, but then I would expect the virus proportions to be approximately proportional to OS market share - meaning shouldn't about 10% of malware be for OS X then? Since it's less than OS market share by a lot, I think it means there are other incentives at play, like ease of writing malware for one OS as compared to the other.

“It’s more complicated, you can’t go shotgun on Mac OS X users like you would be able to do with Windows users,” explains Bogdan, “But, if someone has the right motivation and resources, they can do it. It’s not technically impossible.”

Yep, that is one good incentive.

“Malware for Windows and Android is ‘performing’ much better for the criminals writing the malware,” explains Andreas, “This means, malware for these platforms pays off easier and, in the end, it’s all about making money.”

This is another good incentive.

I think the above two incentives explain why the discrepancy is so great.

Sounds like Windows is both a technically easier and more profitable target for malware developers. So that old 2000's reputation is still pretty true (Microsoft didn't introduce UAC credential prompts, the most basic protection, unless 2007). Microsoft hasn't done much else recently either - their anti-malware suite (Microsoft Security Essentials) has pretty much been abandoned, and Windows Defender is close to useless.

I won't ever say that it is impossible for Macs to get a virus - it is absolutely possible. However, basic common sense principles that apply to any OS (like not downloading sketchy executables, not clicking on unknown attachments, not installing JAVA unless absolutely necessary, not installing Flash unless absolutely necessary) will go a very long way to prevent getting a virus on Mac, but on Windows those common sense principles alone are plainly insufficient.

It's like Microsoft is purposefully doing this to prop-up an industry where there shouldn't be one.

 

[boltjames]

Yep, that is one good incentive.

This is another good incentive.

Sounds like Windows is both a technically easier and more profitable target for malware developers.

My point is that taking 5 minutes to install a free anti-virus program like AVG makes this 1990's "scary virus" mythology a completely moot point, nothing to discuss any more even by Apple zealots as it solves the problem entirely.

I've been using Windows for 21 years, 365 days a year on a dozen different machines. I have a wife who has been using Windows for 21 years, 365 days a year on her notebooks. I have 4 kids who use the kitchen Windows notebook for 17 years, 365 days a year. We've never had a virus on any of our Windows machines, ever. Never a malware problem, never a hacking attack, nothing, zippo, nada. All because I took 5 minutes to install an anti-virus program and made sure everyone understood not to double-click executables in emails.

And before you go to the boiler-plate argument about little old ladies who don't know about that last sentence above, well they're the ones who can screw up OSX too, no different than fumbling with a microwave oven, not knowing how to use voicemail, forgetting the car keys, etc. It's a generational thing. Your parents and the Windows newb's in the 90's had issues. Now they're experienced. Now the problem is solved.

BJ

 

[oneMadRssn]

My point is that taking 5 minutes to install a free anti-virus program like AVG makes this 1990's "scary virus" mythology a completely moot point, nothing to discuss any more even by Apple zealots as it solves the problem entirely.

Let's not be hyperbolic. Most independent tests say AVG is really good, if not the best. However, the detection rate is still not 100%.

Coincidentally, AVG Free's detection rate is around 98% by most tests, some less some more, which happens to be the same % as of Virus's written for Windows. Statistically speaking, and assuming all other factors remain the same, this means a Mac with no antivirus is as likely to get a virus as Windows is with AVG. 5 minutes or not, this shows how poor Windows security is.

We've never had a virus on any of our Windows machines, ever. Never a malware problem, never a hacking attack, nothing, zippo, nada. All because I took 5 minutes to install an anti-virus program and made sure everyone understood not to double-click executables in emails.

I don't believe this for a single second. Back in the early/mid 2000s, there were times when it was literally impossible not to get a virus on XP. Literally, a computer just sitting there connected to the internet would get a virus even with a good anti-virus installed. Back then, a detection rate of 99% one month would be 70% the next month - the pace was insane. I've been using Windows since 3.1, and one of the jobs I had in high school and college on and off was fixing computers. I've seen the Windows XP install screen so many times it has been burned into my retinas. Do not kid yourself into thinking you never had a virus - you probably just did not known about it, or you were replacing your computer often enough not to notice.

And before you go to the boiler-plate argument about little old ladies who don't know about that last sentence above, well they're the ones who can screw up OSX too, no different than fumbling with a microwave oven, not knowing how to use voicemail, forgetting the car keys, etc. It's a generational thing. Your parents and the Windows newb's in the 90's had issues. Now they're experienced. Now the problem is solved.

First, as I said, it wasn't the 90s, it was more recent. Windows didn't really have proper network support and browsing capabilities until late 1995 but malware wasn't really an issue for a few years (at least, not to the level of everyone needing an antivirus). However, Windows XP was horribly insecure and came on new computers until early 2007. This means, what I'd call the hayday of Windows malware was from ~1996-2007, which as you can see it mostly in the 2000s.

Second, it's foolish to think the problem is solved. It's not solved, companies like AVG are just a perpetual bandaid printing machine. It won't be solved until Microsoft actually begins to take security seriously, instead of just talking about it.

If you have to use Windows, use Windows. I have to use Windows for work, and it's fine. But if you use Windows, it's irresponsible to assume that taking 5 minutes to install AVG guarantees security. Little old ladies or experienced technology professionals alike need to know how vulnerable Windows is.

 

[dogslobber]

Sounds like Windows is both a technically easier and more profitable target for malware developers. So that old 2000's reputation is still pretty true (Microsoft didn't introduce UAC credential prompts, the most basic protection, unless 2007). Microsoft hasn't done much else recently either - their anti-malware suite (Microsoft Security Essentials) has pretty much been abandoned, and Windows Defender is close to useless.

I won't ever say that it is impossible for Macs to get a virus - it is absolutely possible. However, basic common sense principles that apply to any OS (like not downloading sketchy executables, not clicking on unknown attachments, not installing JAVA unless absolutely necessary, not installing Flash unless absolutely necessary) will go a very long way to prevent getting a virus on Mac, but on Windows those common sense principles alone are plainly insufficient.

It's like Microsoft is purposefully doing this to prop-up an industry where there shouldn't be one.

Microsoft will take decades to prove that a user running Microsoft is safe given their track record. Look what the company did with Internet Explorer. They had to invent a new web browser to escape the shackles of their past, felonious behavior but the mud is stuck into the fabric for the stain to ever be removed.

 

[dogslobber]

If you have to use Windows, use Windows. I have to use Windows for work, and it's fine. But if you use Windows, it's irresponsible to assume that taking 5 minutes to install AVG guarantees security. Little old ladies or experienced technology professionals alike need to know how vulnerable Windows is.

But that's only half the battle. The rest is that Microsoft do not provide a working solution to these problems for their own Operating System like Apple do. Expecting a user to play Russian Roulette with third party products from who knows where to protect them from goodness knows what computing horrors, is simply the wrong model to give to user.

As Dr McCoy would say, my god man, this is the 21 century.

 

[boltjames]

I don't believe this for a single second. Back in the early/mid 2000s, there were times when it was literally impossible not to get a virus on XP.

Again with the 1990's mythology.

5 minutes to install anti-virus, decades of use without any issues. And if there weren't more people like me with trouble-free experiences, well, Windows wouldn't exist. You can't name a consumer product in the history of modern civilization with a defect rate as high as you're claiming Windows to be that still has a 92% market share 25 years after its launch. If Windows were such a mess, we'd have stopped using it.

BJ

 

[oneMadRssn]

Again with the 1990's mythology.

5 minutes to install anti-virus, decades of use without any issues. And if there weren't more people like me with trouble-free experiences, well, Windows wouldn't exist. You can't name a consumer product in the history of modern civilization with a defect rate as high as you're claiming Windows to be that still has a 92% market share 25 years after its launch. If Windows were such a mess, we'd have stopped using it.

BJ

You say you must install a third-party software for it to work? I would agree this is a defect.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I have found Bootcamp to run Windows 10 significantly smoother than Parallels, definitely. That was probably more a fault of Windows 10 itself. What was annoying was how it just stuck there without any progress bar to give an indicator of how long was left, no simple notification beforehand to tell me what it was doing.

Unfortunately, today I've noticed yet more issues with Bootcamp. They just keep cropping up. Unable to use the keyboard controls for volume or keyboard backlight. Mouse click "sticks" when I go to highlight something, I have to click again to unclick it. None of these issues alone would be the end of the world, but combined they make for a far less satisfactory experience for me, than how the MacBook could potetially be on Windows.

I don't know if this is partially caused by jumping back and forth to OSX as obviously BJ and I don't so we tend not to see these little events

 

[boltjames]

You say you must install a third-party software for it to work? I would agree this is a defect.

Windows Defender is included with every Windows install and does a decent job. I choose to disable it and use AVG, I've been using it for almost a decade and it must be doing a great job since no one in my family has ever gotten a virus or anything foreign to the experience.

Let it go man. Microsoft won the desktop but Apple won mobile, it's a bigger prize.

BJ

 

[mackie8]

How many gb have you guys alloted for windows 10?

 

[lite426]

How many gb have you guys alloted for windows 10?

I used the "divide equally" option during Bootcamp setup, which set it at 125GB for Windows and 124GB for OS X.

 

[boltjames]

How many gb have you guys alloted for windows 10?

I put 350GB of my 512GB allotment on Windows 10.

I never use OSX but thought I should leave space there for when I get around to editing all my old home videos in iMovie some day.

BJ

 

[SteveJUAE]

How many gb have you guys alloted for windows 10?

The max, I recall 38GB OSX and the rest of my 512GB is Windows 10

 

[mackie8]

Bootcamp done... At first i encounter some problem on realtek driver... It freeze there... After deleting the folder it seems fine now.....
But upon installing drivers i encounter this blinking white line on the screen.... Just curious what is this.....

 

[SteveJUAE]

Bootcamp done... At first i encounter some problem on realtek driver... It freeze there... After deleting the folder it seems fine now.....
But upon installing drivers i encounter this blinking white line on the screen.... Just curious what is this.....

I have seen it occasionally but normally from a web page it's almost like a residue of the white search box at the bottom of the window from the drop down

See it you still get it after putting you taskbar at the top of the screen next time its there

 

[xmichaelp]

I hate OSX, I only use Windows, and I bought my 12" Retina MacBook in May strictly to run Windows 10 and it's brilliant, couldn't be happier. I use the free Boot Camp utility in the MacBook to boot directly to Windows each time, it's like OSX doesn't exist.

The only things that are different using a MacBook vs. a dedicated HP/Dell/Toshiba machine for Windows are:

1. There is no Print Screen key, so screen captures have to be done using the Windows Snipping Tool which is included in Windows 10.

2. There is no Windows key, so to lock the computer screen and bring up the passcode entry you have to hit CTRL + L instead of Windows + L.

3. You need to use Hibernate instead of Sleep for short-term shut downs for battery purposes.

That's it. Use the Snipping Tool, learn a new keyboard shortcut, and set Hibernate instead of Sleep and it's the best Windows notebook on the market. I'm thrilled with it. These so-called MacBook "limitations" are mythical, don't let them worry you.

BJ

How do you hate OS X? I've never heard this from an Apple fan.

 

[SteveJUAE]

How do you hate OS X? I've never heard this from an Apple fan.

Hate is a bit of a strong word

I'm an Apple Mac hardware fan but not an OSX fan, I certainly dislike IOS although appreciate the styling and construction of Iphone's

IPP have only just started to appear here and I looked at one yesterday for the life of me I just did not know what to do with a steroid tablet, now if it had one of those nice pop up rotating cup holders or nav screens you get in an Audi or BMW or even a kick stand I could of got excited about it