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you are definitely using macs the wrong way if you think a browser window is bigger in one os
oh really, is that all what you got? do you know the bookmark bar on firefox and chrome? this bar display more items on windows than mac on both browsers.
and you are definitely not helping
A clean install should solve all your issues.
thanks for your reply but if you mean that i need to go to recovery by restarting and hold the button alt or option and then install the os x again then i already did this without any effects.
but if im wrong could you please be more descriptive and thanks again
 
Eh, I'm not so sure. He's got a point. Each has pros and cons. Sure, I think calling Mavericks "mediocre" is a stretch, but all the complains from Mac fans about Windows are as off-base or more.

The Kool-Aid is strong with this one too.
 
I bought macbook pro on july 2013 and i think it is macbook pro mid 2012 i update the mac from mountain lion to Mavericks. in the past 3 months i experienced that my mac is running slow and the memory is getting high quickly and i dont know if it is caused by the update. restarting the mac solved the problem for one day and then problem came again and again. i have windows 8.1 on the mac by bootcamp and it runs smoothly with no lags. another thing that i prefer windows 8.1 on the mac than mavericks is that i feel it gives me more than mavericks. i feel that i the screen is bigger . even in browsers it gives me a wider screen i dont know why.
the fact that i want to use the Mavericks is obvious because i bought a mac
i dont know if im using the mac the wrong way. if somebody has the same feeling or had the same problems and he got them solved then i need your help
thanks in advanced and i dont want to upgrade my macs ram or do anything to the hardware. if windows 8.1 runs smoothly on the mac then so does mavericks

I like bootcamp as well, and I switch back and forth a lot. Apple did a great job with windows touchpad drivers and such, but windows runs much hotter for me. Also, windows is stuck in dgpu mode, so battery life is cut in half.
 
but windows runs much hotter for me. Also, windows is stuck in dgpu mode, so battery life is cut in half.

Just to be clear :)

windows is stuck in dgpu mode

causes:

windows runs much hotter (because it is consuming battery power faster)

which means:

battery life is cut in half

They are all related...
 
Aaah, one of my favourite debates - please allow me to butt in :D

Just a few points from me:


- OS X is by no means more stable or faster than modern iterations of Windows. I have seen more OS X crashes than Vista/Windows 7 ones.
- Windows has always been a bare-bone OS, with minimal features and interface (usable features are supposed to be provided by third-part apps), while OS X is basically a glorified Unix distribution - a rich set of synergized tools and frameworks
- OS X is built as a programming library - this view explains the issues with backwards compatibility. In contrast, Windows features a more or less stable (and very very horrible) set of base APIs + wrappers. Old program compatibility is also quite a problem with Windows actually, its just that Windows programs usually rely less on the OS to implement features (because the OS sucks this).
- Windows is created with single-user/single-app scenario in mind - its an excellent choice for people who have to work with a single, specialised application over long periods of time. I would always recommend Windows 7 over OS X to people using Photoshop/Office/Excel etc. all day. However, Windows falls short IMO where flexible, 'chaotic' workflow with many things at once is required. In particular, its tedious for research, organising data and software development (with later, Unix systems are the undisputed king)
- Programming for OS X is so much more pleasant than programming for Windows - even with modern Windows APIs like .NET
- I will not comment on Windows 8 because I find it borderline unusable as a desktop operating system
 
The Kool-Aid is strong with this one too.

The irony is you accusing someone like me, who is pretty balanced and objective, of drinking the Kool-Aid because it doesn't suit your ideological agenda. I've spent a couple decades using the OSes and software from both manufacturers. Both have strong suits. If you're in capable of seeing that, then you're blinded by your own "Kool-Aid."
 
Yeah, it is a bit. ;) I still think Apple is better then MS at educating their customers though.

Yeah, that's fair. Between the intuitive UI and the actually helpful FAQs, plus a retail model that's actually dedicated to giving customers help, I agree with you.
 
Windows 8.1 run better than Mavericks

Your Mavericks either needs a nice clean install or maybe booting into recovery HD and the disk permissions repaired.

I just got a replacement MBP the other day and did the usual clean install of Windows 7 SP1 x64. I could argue that my AHCI modded setup it runs better than an old 10.9 install and new 8.1 put together as 7 is certainly Microsoft's only comparable OS to a Mac one. I can't though because logically its like comparing a used apple with a fresh orange, two different products.and tastes.

8 and the not far enough better 8.1 has been an absolute disaster for Microsoft. I've been knee deep in upgrade work for XP boxes this past year for clients and businesses and still have more to do before the 8th next month. The ratio of the systems that use windows 8 to 7 as an XP replacement is 1 over 10 which says an awful lot on which one of their products the market prefers. If the 8 Pro licence didn't have 7 pro downgrade rights it could have turned out even worse for them.

Excited about windows 9 though. They made a peach with 7 after the vista disaster and I'm pretty confident it will be another good un :D
 
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thanks for your reply but if you mean that i need to go to recovery by restarting and hold the button alt or option and then install the os x again then i already did this without any effects.
but if im wrong could you please be more descriptive and thanks again

Sorry buddy, that was exactly what I meant :/
 
Microsoft's OS release sequence seems to be bad, good, bad, good...

ME: Bad
XP: Good
Vista: Bad
7: Good
8/8.1: Bad.

8/8.1 is way better than 7 though. The thing people have a problem with is the UI changes that was made (some of them are ludicrous). This can easily fixed though and Windows 8 can be used in the exact same way as you would use Windows 7, except you have all the "under the hood" improvements that have been done to speed things up and make them more stable.

Windows 8 also made it possible for tablets to run a full blown OS in a nice way. Hopefully future iterations will continue on that path.
 
Most likely it's just people stuck on Windows XP.

Chrome has its latest versions on XP, no excuse to still have such high adoption of IE7-9. If a third offers better support then MSFT that is just a tad silly.

8/8.1 is way better than 7 though. The thing people have a problem with is the UI changes that was made (some of them are ludicrous). This can easily fixed though and Windows 8 can be used in the exact same way as you would use Windows 7, except you have all the "under the hood" improvements that have been done to speed things up and make them more stable.

Windows 8 also made it possible for tablets to run a full blown OS in a nice way. Hopefully future iterations will continue on that path.

The problem is MSFT is bad at educating users, some of the UX changes are silly, and it is a very disjointed experience. If you know how to use it, it can be a delight and very enjoyable but anyone with no real experience with windows 8 is at a complete lose.

A good example would be my father I got him a brand new w8 laptop and ever since then it has been nothing but troubles for him. Day one his looking at a image, gets thrown into the metro image app, and has no clue how to get back to the desktop he knows. The screen also gives you no indication of what happened. This happens with everything, open a PDF in your desktop, shoved into metro, why. It makes no sense, it is confusing, my dad not knowing exactly what happened just gets worried and confused. Users don't want that kind of experience.

If they just polished stuff a bit, let metro apps run in the desktop so it actual makes sense, and you don't have 2 sets of most apps. And make it very clear that 1 UI is the touch UI and the other is a none touch UI and stop all this mix and match none sense it would be a lot better.

Its a good OS with a few silly changes, and plagued with catching up with the iPad.
 
8/8.1 is way better than 7 though. The thing people have a problem with is the UI changes that was made (some of them are ludicrous). This can easily fixed though and Windows 8 can be used in the exact same way as you would use Windows 7, except you have all the "under the hood" improvements that have been done to speed things up and make them more stable.

Windows 8 also made it possible for tablets to run a full blown OS in a nice way. Hopefully future iterations will continue on that path.

You are the one in ten in my sample group who think it's better. Under the hood there are good improvements but UI wise it's a disaster and still is albeit slightly less even with 8.1. Not even Apple were daft enough to try and make a desktop OS into a tablet, they know full well it will require slow evolution and not a reckless, headless rush that Microsoft have so messed up doing. I'm confident that Windows 9 will see a more of an about turn, a structured, organised alternative to improving the desktop OS over this tablet craze and comparable to Apple once again. If they mess this up again it could prove very costly to them. My hunch is they won't!
 
All I can say is - wow.

Plus:

this_thread_delivers.jpg
 
The problem is MSFT is bad at educating users, some of the UX changes are silly, and it is a very disjointed experience. If you know how to use it, it can be a delight and very enjoyable but anyone with no real experience with windows 8 is at a complete lose.

A good example would be my father I got him a brand new w8 laptop and ever since then it has been nothing but troubles for him. Day one his looking at a image, gets thrown into the metro image app, and has no clue how to get back to the desktop he knows. The screen also gives you no indication of what happened. This happens with everything, open a PDF in your desktop, shoved into metro, why. It makes no sense, it is confusing, my dad not knowing exactly what happened just gets worried and confused. Users don't want that kind of experience.

If they just polished stuff a bit, let metro apps run in the desktop so it actual makes sense, and you don't have 2 sets of most apps. And make it very clear that 1 UI is the touch UI and the other is a none touch UI and stop all this mix and match none sense it would be a lot better.

Its a good OS with a few silly changes, and plagued with catching up with the iPad.

For power users (which I guess most people are on these forums) you get your desktop experience by installing a simple program. Sure it won't work for old people with no technology knowledge (unless they get help) but for people who know a just a bit about computers it is not a big problem. I wouldn't say Windows 8 is bad because of Modern UI simply because you are still able to use it in desktop mode.

They tried to push the touch UI too much for consumers who have no use for it and cannot understand it. It does not make it a bad OS though.

You are the one in ten in my sample group who think it's better. Under the hood there are good improvements but UI wise it's a disaster and still is albeit slightly less even with 8.1. Not even Apple were daft enough to try and make a desktop OS into a tablet, they know full well it will require slow evolution and not a reckless, headless rush that Microsoft have so messed up doing. I'm confident that Windows 9 will see a more of an about turn, a structured, organised alternative to improving the desktop OS over this tablet craze and comparable to Apple once again. If they mess this up again it could prove very costly to them. My hunch is they won't!


Well, the desktop OS on a tablet is needed, we need powerful tablets that can be used for whatever we need, that requires a good operating system.

Im not surprised that I am one of few in your sample group that thinks it is good. Most people will not think logical about things and instead get upset when it is not as they are used to or how they want it.

As I said above, anyone with some technology knowledge will have no problem getting the start menu back and using it in only the desktop mode which is exactly like Windows 7. In that case you only have the improvements of Windows 8.
 
Well that escalated quickly!

Rose colored glasses? Me? Did you see all the negativity in my post? You are the one with the rosy outlook...

/snip

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I am curious though, who (and why) would you consider to be the best software development house in the world?
 
Im not surprised that I am one of few in your sample group that thinks it is good. Most people will not think logical about things and instead get upset when it is not as they are used to or how they want it.

As I said above, anyone with some technology knowledge will have no problem getting the start menu back and using it in only the desktop mode which is exactly like Windows 7. In that case you only have the improvements of Windows 8.

Thing is that users were very happy with the gradual changes brought on from Windows 95 all the way to 7 and for Microsoft to not continue this evolution like OSX has been gradually doing was madness, and insanity for the first time not giving the client the option to roll back one generation to get used to it. I've been using Windows since 3.0 and know you can fudge 8.1 to work like 7 with classic shell but why shouldn't that be baked into the OS in the first place as an option instead of a third party app? Why are the settings still FUBAR spread across classic and Metro?

Bottom line is - the market wants a good, stable, organised Microsoft desktop OS so that's why Windows 7 for XP migrations is so dominant because of the mess they've made with 8/8.1. You may like it but I'm afraid the market along with the vast majority of users including those with technological 'knowledge' are waiting to them to sort this mess out properly with 8.2/9.
 
Well, the desktop OS on a tablet is needed, we need powerful tablets that can be used for whatever we need, that requires a good operating system.

Im not surprised that I am one of few in your sample group that thinks it is good. Most people will not think logical about things and instead get upset when it is not as they are used to or how they want it.

What does it have to do with logical thinking? Tablets and computers have different input, geometry and handling. Forcing the same UI on both is highly illogical. And as to 'desktop OS' - iOS and OS X are the same OS underneath, just with slightly different sets of libraries on top. They both are built from the same code.

As I said above, anyone with some technology knowledge will have no problem getting the start menu back and using it in only the desktop mode which is exactly like Windows 7. In that case you only have the improvements of Windows 8.

I expect the product to work well for me without needing to tweak/hack the hell out of it. This reminds me of my experience with the original Samsung Galaxy S: 'once you download this custom firmware, root the phone, put the firmware on it and add this few custom config lines, it is a terrific phone!'. No matter how you put it, the Metro interface and WindowsRT is a big part of Windows 8. If you need to disable a major feature of an OS to make it 'good', well... its not really good, is it?
 
Bottom line is - the market wants a good, stable, organised Microsoft desktop OS so that's why Windows 7 for XP migrations is so dominant because of the mess they've made with 8/8.1. You may like it but I'm afraid the market along with the vast majority of users including those with technological 'knowledge' are waiting to them to sort this mess out properly with 8.2/9.

Right, that is exactly the problem with Microsoft (well, one of the problems). Instead of building on something good, things get redesigned based on...what? Why would you force people to learn their way around a new UI? Apple, I should say, also adds new and (mainly) superfluous elements to their UI, but they are pretty much invisible if you want to ignore them--someone coming from 10.0 could smoothly transition to 10.9--they could figure out whether or not they wanted to use the launchpad later.

Usually (not always) Apple is a lot more attentive to a lot of minor annoyances that make your day worse. So, for example, MS Word is, generally, much better than Pages (especially now that Apple is making unfathomable decisions about it like removing its compatibility with RTF files). But its also true that there have been a gazillion UIs for MS Word, and you have to figure out the latest one, despite the fact that it mostly does the same things. Similarly on bugs (though Mavericks has some): you know, the fricking ribbon tabs on the OSX version of Office still have problems three years after the release of Office 2011.

Plus (in response to other people's comments)--Windows does have some advantages for some users, but, I'd say that a Unix-based operating system is better for a million reasons.
 
Thing is that users were very happy with the gradual changes brought on from Windows 95 all the way to 7 and for Microsoft to not continue this evolution like OSX has been gradually doing was madness, and insanity for the first time not giving the client the option to roll back one generation to get used to it. I've been using Windows since 3.0 and know you can fudge 8.1 to work like 7 with classic shell but why shouldn't that be baked into the OS in the first place as an option instead of a third party app? Why are the settings still FUBAR spread across classic and Metro?

Of course it would be better to let the user decide what to do, I wouldn't say that not doing that destroys the entire OS though.

Bottom line is - the market wants a good, stable, organised Microsoft desktop OS so that's why Windows 7 for XP migrations is so dominant because of the mess they've made with 8/8.1. You may like it but I'm afraid the market along with the vast majority of users including those with technological 'knowledge' are waiting to them to sort this mess out properly with 8.2/9.

What the market wants is not really interesting to me as most users are dumb, many users of the market make their decisions based on fancy advertisements and fanboyism. Market studies show that people have a tendency to be loyal towards brands based on no real objective information at all, they do not compare units to evaluate them on a unbiased level.

Yes, the market is what companies develop for, but it does not mean the markets interest can be used to evaluate if a product is good or bad.

I been using and evaluating everything for the past years and I evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of each platform. Currently I am back to a Mac laptop with a rMBP and also back to iPhone after a year of Windows Phone (which had problems with the lack of apps), my desktop is still running Windows though and so will my next tablet.

What does it have to do with logical thinking? Tablets and computers have different input, geometry and handling. Forcing the same UI on both is highly illogical. And as to 'desktop OS' - iOS and OS X are the same OS underneath, just with slightly different sets of libraries on top. They both are built from the same code.

It has to do with logical thinking that you have to actually look objectively at the product, not go "this is different, therefore bad" as many people do.

Yes I agree that forcing the same input on 2 different types of units with such different input capabilities is quite illogical, still doesn't make an entire OS bad.

I expect the product to work well for me without needing to tweak/hack the hell out of it. This reminds me of my experience with the original Samsung Galaxy S: 'once you download this custom firmware, root the phone, put the firmware on it and add this few custom config lines, it is a terrific phone!'. No matter how you put it, the Metro interface and WindowsRT is a big part of Windows 8. If you need to disable a major feature of an OS to make it 'good', well... its not really good, is it?

Well most major operating systems are the same. Take OS X with the retina displays, you can't even choose your resolution freely without installing third party programs.

As for Modern UI it is only something that I disable on my desktop, on a tablet or such it is working nicely. Disabling modern UI makes it like Windows 7 with improvements, so how could that make it worse than Windows 7? I see Windows 8 as an improved Windows 7 with a different GUI slapped on top.
 
Yes, they've done a lot of good things, but "best software house in the world"? No way, not even close. That's what got me the most anyway.

Why not, who would you call the the best software house in the world?

----------

That's because MS is the most successful product IBM ever created (and introduced to corporate America).

Lmao MS created by IBM? Nevertheless, Windows is doing so well because it provides one of the most solid enteprise enviroments out there. Without companies having to set up their own ofcourse, given that linux can work even better in certain situations. But for most large companies, Windows is their best bet.
 
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