Windows Goes Multi-Touch

[fluidedge]

doesn't look very multi touch to me - hitting one piano key at a time is so 1993 and making photos bigger/smaller with the pinch method is nothing new to iPhone users

i thought windows 7 multitouch was going to 'blow us away' - or are they keeping some of these features super secret till the launch like Jobs did with Leopard (what a let down that turned out to be)

 

[phalewhale]

Vista is more secure than XP --ComputerWorld

Scroll down to the article summary and it says:
"I don't think Vista is really any more secure than XP," he said. "People still need to practice safe computing and need to have good security software, and keep their machines patched and up to date."

Vista More Secure than XP --TgDaily

Its really up in the air at this point.

That article was from June 2007, as was the one I quoted in a previous post.

My experience of Vista was awful. It took ages to move/copy/delete files. It was actually quicker to perform such actions from within an XP Virtual Machine on Vista! I believe this was something to do with DRM and may have been improved in an update? The OS simply felt too bloated and slow for my needs. It was on a fairly speedy machine too. Needless to say, I went back to XP for the odd few tasks I now need to carry out on a Microsoft platform...

 

[CJM]

But MS doesn't sell PC's - this is what Ballmer claims. People are NOT buying PC's to run Windows on them, they're buying PCs with Windows pre-installed on them - it's not like they have a choice of OS when purchasing a PC. Many erase Windows and install Linux instead - others suffer through endless loss of productivity due to perpetual restarts, malware slowdowns, and enormous peripheral compatibility problems.

Many?

A couple erase Windows...

 

[Syrus28]

.
My experience of Vista was awful. It took ages to move/copy/delete files. It was actually quicker to perform such actions from within an XP Virtual Machine on Vista! I believe this was something to do with DRM and may have been improved in an update? The OS simply felt too bloated and slow for my needs. It was on a fairly speedy machine too. Needless to say, I went back to XP for the odd few tasks I now need to carry out on a Microsoft platform...

Yeah, that was bad. Part of it was the time it took to estimate the time it takes... However, SP1 got rid of that. Much faster indeed.

 

[Eraserhead]

I like how everything Microsoft has seems to involve Apple in some way.

It does when the MacBU is in that division.

There is simply no reason to believe Mac 2008 was the dominating source of income for the division,

http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/03/25/microsoft-looks-to-cash-in-on-the-iphone/

Fortune reckon $200 million a year profit from the Mac Business Unit (i.e. $50 million/quarter), it seems more than reasonable to me that they would do better than that in the quarter when the first Intel native version of Office for Mac was released .

 

[phalewhale]

Yeah, that was bad. Part of it was the time it took to estimate the time it takes... However, SP1 got rid of that. Much faster indeed.

Good to hear SP1 sorted that out. That was THE major gripe for me.

 

[Neuro]

Hmm, tired arms after 10 mins use!

 

[fluidedge]

Hmm, tired arms after 10 mins use!

very true! lol

thats whats so great about the mouse. I use a tablet to do some PS work and stuff sometimes and i really do get tired with that after an hour or so, imagine what using multitouch (OK not all the time) would do to you.

You have to concentrate on being more accurate when not using a mouse too. There is a large margin for error on where you click when using a mouse. Multi touch with fat fingers will be fun!

 

[BornAgainMac]

I bet it will freeze up a lot and run slow with all the spyware. Viruses will be designed for multitouch and trick the user to pull a virtual finger and have their data removed.

 

[Eidorian]

Not a terribly valuable feature to entice me get me to buy Windows 7. I'm more concerned about the rest of the operating system.

Leopard and Vista are working fine here.

 

[xUKHCx]

For all those that bash multi-touch what will you say when apple implements it because it has been quite obvious for some time that apple will in fact do so.

Competition is good.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Apple's plan for OS XI was multitouch and the eradication of the mouse. To do this, the word "computer" would need to be redefined to accommodate the new style of interface. Steve is fine with that; releasing another set of mold-breakers.

Now that the Microtards are jumping his gun, we'll see Apple innovate faster.

 

[Project]

I read the article, where did they say the Xbox division didn't make a profit? It stated the $89 million in operating profit... Just no comment on whether the Xbox was still sold at an initial loss.

Yeah, the market is tough. However, I think the $6 billion was well worth it. They dearly needed a "consumer" product, and now they have made a new name for themselves and potentially new source of income for them. They came in at the right time, introduced the 1st hard drive enabled console, made online gaming big, and is now #2 in console sales. I mean, who really would have believed Microsoft would be outselling the playstation?

You have to read between the lines.

Given the small profit the E&D division made, the analyst asked whether the 360 is now profitable. They said "we are making progress on that".

As Mac Office was launched during that quarter, and Microsoft themselves stated that it was around 3x more successful as a launch than 2004, we can safely assume the profit made in that division was from the MacBU.

Perhaps the $6bn will be worth it in the future, but as of right now they haven't really made a penny on the Xbox. So you can't really say that the money is well worth it. Its sales have slowed down dramatically in recent months and the PS3 is outselling it every month in all markets except the US. And that doesn't even include the Wii sales...

Thats not to say the 360 isn't a good product. It is. Its the only console I own from this generation. And they have done a lot of great things with it. But doing so has cost them an obscene amount of money (relatively to what we have seen before in the console business).

 

[Syrus28]

It does when the MacBU is in that division.



http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/03/25/microsoft-looks-to-cash-in-on-the-iphone/

Fortune reckon $200 million a year from the Mac Business Unit (i.e. $50 million/quarter), it seems more than reasonable to me that they would do better than that in the quarter when the first Intel native version of Office for Mac was released .

Well then. Who are we supposed to believe?

The division brought in $614 million, a huge improvement over the loss of $746 million during the same time last year. Thats a increase of about $1.3 billion. Mac BU is estimated to bring in $350 million a year, so about $262 million in the 9 month period. Considering Office 08 launched, lets say $300 million. That still leaves about $1 billion in operating income unaccounted for. Im gonna go on a limb and say it wasn't the Zune or Windows Mobile devices, so...

There isn't a bunch of info for individual profits, but this does give us a perspective... The Xbox seems largely responsible for the growth of the division.

 

[BoyBach]

Whilst it undeniably looks a little rough around the edges, I'm quietly impressed.

I cant imagine using it for everyday use - achy arm syndrome! - but for quick manipulation of photos and so on, it looks promising.

 

[Eraserhead]

The division brought in $614 million, a huge improvement over the loss of $746 million during the same time last year.

Your talking about the year to date, and most of that was down to Halo 3 last year as I said in my first post. However that doesn't apply to the profit last quarter, which was clearly down to Mac Office. Project explains this well too.

Can we please put this to bed?

For all those that bash multi-touch what will you say when apple implements it because it has been quite obvious for some time that apple will in fact do so.

Competition is good.

I'm not convinced that multi-touch is the be all and end all. The piano showed it was useful for that.

However I think you'd get irritated by waving your hand around a larger screen though it would reduce RSI so I'm not sure I'm right overall...

but for quick manipulation of photos and so on, it looks promising.

True. But the MacBook Air does that now.

There is also the problem of the API for accessing this. Microsoft isn't great at getting people to use the "latest and greatest" API features in Vista as it is so I'm not convinced they'll really get it to take off...

 

[Project]

Well then. Who are we supposed to believe?

The division brought in $614 million, a huge improvement over the loss of $746 million during the same time last year. Thats a increase of about $1.3 billion. Mac BU is estimated to bring in $350 million a year, so about $262 million in the 9 month period. Considering Office 08 launched, lets say $300 million. That still leaves about $1 billion in operating income unaccounted for. Im gonna go on a limb and say it wasn't the Zune or Windows Mobile devices, so...

There isn't a bunch of info for individual profits, but this does give us a perspective... The Xbox seems largely responsible for the growth of the division.

Where are you getting your figures from?

These are the figures:

 

[Eraserhead]

^^ Microsoft's Q2 2008 is from October to December 2007, so it isn't the current quarter.

Apple's Q2 2008 is from January to March 2008, which is the latest reported quarter for Microsoft you need Q3 2008 figures .

 

[xUKHCx]

I'm not convinced that multi-touch is the be all and end all. The piano showed it was useful for that.

However I think you'd get irritated by waving your hand around a larger screen though it would reduce RSI so I'm not sure I'm right overall...



True. But the MacBook Air does that now.

There is also the problem of the API for accessing this. Microsoft isn't great at getting people to use the "latest and greatest" API features in Vista as it is so I'm not convinced they'll really get it to take off...

Granted it might not be the be all and end all however the arguments against Microsoft in regards to multitouch can surely be aimed at apple when they implement it.

It's not like apple releasing it will suddenly make all our fingers thinner for example (silly argument against multitouch anyway because the iPhone has already shown that people with fat fingers, i.e. me, can perfectly use the device).

I just find it odd that people are so ready to bash multi-touch when it is obvious that apple will release it and I am curious as to what those same people will think at the time. I take the view of don't knock it until you have tried it because I for one love multitouch on my iPhone and can't wait to see it implemented as such on a tablet like device (hopefully with scanning pixeld/document reader type display, dating back to the patents long long ago). Students dream.

 

[Project]

^^ Microsoft's Q2 2008 is from October to December 2007, so it isn't the current quarter.

Apple's Q2 2008 is from January to March 2008, which is the latest reported quarter for Microsoft you need Q3 2008 figures .

So what I posted was the Halo quarter? Got my dates wrong.

 

[Syrus28]

Perhaps the $6bn will be worth it in the future, but as of right now they haven't really made a penny on the Xbox. So you can't really say that the money is well worth it. Its sales have slowed down dramatically in recent months and the PS3 is outselling it every month in all markets except the US. And that doesn't even include the Wii sales...

Overall, not a penny. I am simply referring to the recent months of profit for the division, a first since the Xbox came out, as a sign for hope. Also, the Xbox name has brought Microsoft a new, fresher, look to younger people. I'd say that warrants $6 billion all by itself.

Thats not to say the 360 isn't a good product. It is. Its the only console I own from this generation. And they have done a lot of great things with it. But doing so has cost them an obscene amount of money (relatively to what we have seen before in the console business).

Not so. The PS3 division incurred a $2 Billion dollar loss last year alone. Link



^^^^I got my figures from GameDaily

 

[kap91]

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if I'm rehashing...

I really don't think anyone is going to want to use a touchscreen in this manner for a long period of time. You arms are going to get very tired holding them out in front of you for extended periods. This goes for both Apple and Microsoft. Multitouch on the screen is good for devices that you hold in you hand or arms. Once the device rests on a table then its just not good anymore. If we want multitouch on desktop computers and notebooks (which I do) the best option is to basicaly have what the Macbook Air has in terms of a multiouch trackpad. On laptops it would be built into the case and for desktops it would have to be in addition to a mouse or keyboard(preferably it would be a multitouch keyboard). Using a multitouch screen on anything but a handheld device is just not practically, the technology is but the physical placement of the arms and hands would just not be comfortable.

Also, while I commend Microsoft for advancing their technology I also think that they really should try their own approaches to technology-at least use different demos.

Just my thoughts.

 

[MrSmith]

Ditto about not reading the whole shebang, but what has Microsoft-vs-Apple got to do with anything? There's a still-new technology being produced, but since it's not by Apple then, well, "MS sucks".

 

[dwd3885]

What's funny is if Apple had demoed the EXACT SAME THING, the majority of you would say this is the coolest thing ever, all positive ratings, etc. You know there is still jealousy, hatred towards Microsoft whenever they do something and it gets bad pub here. Doesn't make much sense to me. Fanboys, you all seem like

 

[Project]

Overall, not a penny. I am simply referring to the recent months of profit for the division, a first since the Xbox came out, as a sign for hope. Also, the Xbox name has brought Microsoft a new, fresher, look to younger people. I'd say that warrants $6 billion all by itself.


Not so. The PS3 division incurred a $2 Billion dollar loss last year alone. Link



^^^^I got my figures from GameDaily

It's a bit disingenuous to separate out the PS3 figures from the grand scheme of things for them. Sony had to ship expensive Blu-ray drives with the PS3 and in doing so it raised the production costs to record levels but singlehandedly won them the format war. That will be worth more to them than the $2bn lost last year. Sony will see a visible return on that investment last year when the royalties come in. And more importantly, they have publicly stated they will not be aggressively cutting the price point of the PS3 now that it is nearing profitability - yet they are outselling the 360 globally despite its own price cuts in the last year.

I don't think anybody believed Sony would be in this position 2 years ago so in a sense the $6bn+ loss of the Xbox project can be seen to be an important strategic move so far - yet there is little sign of MS capitalising on it yet. They are still being outsold by the Wii/PS3 right now, music/video sales remain a footnote when compared to iTunes and the Zune has gained little traction despite this increased consumer perception you speak of.