Windows Vista Beta 1 and Tiger

[MrSugar]

According to early reports of IE7, there is very little difference between IE6. The browser still fails almost every single CSS bug form IE6. Literally IE7 looks to be IE6 with tabs, supposed security enhancements, and RSS reading. I just don't understand how the biggest company in computer software can't seem to get web standards under their belt. Open source browsers support standards from the get / go, Microsoft doesn't, and then they don't even fix the bugs with updates or patches. Put simply, they just don't care, no matter how many angry developers there are!

I think the only reason I will ever get a PC is to run linux, test CSS layouts on IE win, and play games.

 

[JFreak]

I just don't understand how the biggest company in computer software can't seem to get web standards under their belt.

as long as they have their market share, they have no reason to implement any changes whatsoever. as soon as -say- half of the idiot exploder user base would suddently switch using firefox 'cause it's better, THEN they would have incentive to improve their product.

individuals are easier to convince, big enterprises are tougher. but bottom line is, people should just stop using IE, that's the only way to force real improvements.

 

[Evangelion]

So you do what I did ..... get a windows machine for Games and use OS X for really everyday work

Well, I have a PC with W2K for games, and Linux for "real work". But for most users, Windows is more than enough for their tasks. Expecting users to have two computers is a bit much, when they can manage just fine with just one. Well, I do have several machines, but I'm not ordinary computer-user . And I do have a Mac Mini of playing around and experimentation.

There is a difference.... I am an avid windows user from the days of DOS and 3.11 I have had My Mac's for the last Yr & 1/2 so don't tell me I have no basis in saying that. I built my PC I have had every Graphics card known and Have all the latest gear for gaming.... I just simply go back to MAC for my daily use... surfing, Bloging, Video Editing storing all my important info that I need fast.

And most people can do those tasks in Windows as well.

 

[JFreak]

And most people can do those tasks in Windows as well.

err... you mean "most people that actually use computers", right? from my experience, most people don't want to use computers AT ALL, because they think computer=windows and have learnt windows is hard to use. most people try to avoid using computers if they can, because of windows.

on the other hand, EVERYONE that i have shown my powerbook have just been amazed about how easy it is to do what they want to do, and have instantly got interested in having one themselves, too. when they have used my powerbook for 15 minutes, they always ask "why on earth windows has been made so difficult to use, as this different system of yours feels very easy?" - well, what can you say that is a regular comment from the folks i call "regular people" and believe me, those people outnumber us computer literate power users like 100:1 or more.

most people just want to write a letter, manage their digital photos, use bank services or check today's tv programs. they don't want to use a computer or browse the internet. computer is a tool which shouldn't be an obstacle. but in the real world (i mean, outside us computer literate power users) people realize that windows keeps them from doing what they want to do and also that by using a macintosh they feel like the computer is helping them to finish what they began.

it's really a huge difference. really.

 

[conditionals]

So... what does everyone think of the name "Vista"?

 

[kalisphoenix]

Nothing says loving like an XvsXP debate.

A common argument (on this thread as well as on the forum I'm on most often) is that Windows is intended for power users. Windows requires "locking down," "tightening up," and other procedures that "ignorant" "retards" can't do. That's the reason for viruses, spyware, adware, and Britney Spears: that most people are simply too stupid to lock down Windows.

This is irritating, but aside from being irritating it's counterproductive to the MS lackey cause. It's assumed that Windows is an OS for everyone (generally because Windows is run by practically everyone), and it's asinine to think that a company with as many billions as I have cigarettes is incapable of setting secure options as default. It's fairly simple to do this. OS X's various security options are generally on by default... why is it that securing your computer requires a power user, while every other OS comes secure by default?

That's the most penetrating criticism of Windows, I think -- that none of its users can think of a good rationale for this ludicrous behavior, so they state flat-out that only idiots have problems with security in Windows. When, in fact, it is Microsoft's extremely poor design decisions that are to blame.

Let's say I buy a house. It's at a fair price, but unfortunately it has no walls or roof (granted, the house came with a big pile of lumber where the fireplace should be). What sort of ridicule would you hurl my direction if I stated (with an air of superiority) that only idiots can't build their own houses, and that you are living in your particular house because you lack the ability to build one?

If I was a gamer, I might give a **** about Windows. I'm not, and I don't. I don't see any reason at all to run Windows. It already makes my fiancee's computer run at 1/3 of the speed at which it should run, and yeah, I know a few things about securing Windows too. Good for us. We're real champions, aren't we?

 

[iMan]

haste la vista

Hmmmm... there something about this new GUI I like... oh yes... finally the trashcan is in the right place!

http://images.betanews.com/albums/42/222.jpg

 

[conditionals]

Nothing says loving like an XvsXP debate.

A common argument (on this thread as well as on the forum I'm on most often) is that Windows is intended for power users. Windows requires "locking down," "tightening up," and other procedures that "ignorant" "retards" can't do. That's the reason for viruses, spyware, adware, and Britney Spears: that most people are simply too stupid to lock down Windows.

This is irritating, but aside from being irritating it's counterproductive to the MS lackey cause. It's assumed that Windows is an OS for everyone (generally because Windows is run by practically everyone), and it's asinine to think that a company with as many billions as I have cigarettes is incapable of setting secure options as default. It's fairly simple to do this. OS X's various security options are generally on by default... why is it that securing your computer requires a power user, while every other OS comes secure by default?

That's the most penetrating criticism of Windows, I think -- that none of its users can think of a good rationale for this ludicrous behavior, so they state flat-out that only idiots have problems with security in Windows. When, in fact, it is Microsoft's extremely poor design decisions that are to blame.

Let's say I buy a house. It's at a fair price, but unfortunately it has no walls or roof (granted, the house came with a big pile of lumber where the fireplace should be). What sort of ridicule would you hurl my direction if I stated (with an air of superiority) that only idiots can't build their own houses, and that you are living in your particular house because you lack the ability to build one?

If I was a gamer, I might give a **** about Windows. I'm not, and I don't. I don't see any reason at all to run Windows. It already makes my fiancee's computer run at 1/3 of the speed at which it should run, and yeah, I know a few things about securing Windows too. Good for us. We're real champions, aren't we?

Plus, OSX is pretty.

 

[AidenShaw]

so please tell me

Start > Shut Down My Computer > Restart > OK

Puh-leez...the illogic of this still annoys me to no end.

So please tell me why dragging a device to the trash ejects it instead of deleting the data on it?

By the way, you start activities through the "Start" menu, so that is a perfectly logical place to go to start the process of shutting down.

 

[iMan]

So please tell me why dragging a device to the trash ejects it instead of deleting the data on it?

By the way, you start activities through the "Start" menu, so that is a perfectly logical place to go to start the process of shutting down.

So you go to start to start the process of shutting down, choose shut down computer (obviously) to get to restart... this is only perfect logic as long as you say so - it would not occur to me intuitively that I should start a process to shut down or restart. I am looking for a way to END my processes (which apparently under Windows is a process in itself then...)

btw: there is no logic in dragging harddisks to the trashcan - it horrified me the first time I did it (I remember I had to enter the floppy again to check if it was really ok )
At least the symbol changes in OS X now... myself I have changed that habit now, using either the keyboard or finder contextual menu (as I have a buttoned up mouse

 

[Evangelion]

err... you mean "most people that actually use computers", right? from my experience, most people don't want to use computers AT ALL, because they think computer=windows and have learnt windows is hard to use. most people try to avoid using computers if they can, because of windows.

Well, just about everyone I know can surf the web just fine on a Windows. Same goes for emailing, instant-messaging and the like. And fact remains that in the western world, just about everyone has a computer available, and about 90+% of them use Windows. So clearly they CAN get their tasks done in Windows.

This menatlity of "Gah! You can't do anything on Windows! you need OS X!" is pretty overblown. Yes, OS X is better of the two. But still, overwhelming majority use Windows, and they get their jobs done in Windows just fine.

on the other hand, EVERYONE that i have shown my powerbook have just been amazed about how easy it is to do what they want to do, and have instantly got interested in having one themselves, too. when they have used my powerbook for 15 minutes, they always ask "why on earth windows has been made so difficult to use, as this different system of yours feels very easy?" - well, what can you say that is a regular comment from the folks i call "regular people" and believe me, those people outnumber us computer literate power users like 100:1 or more.

Again, I know SEVERAL non-power-users. And they are using Windows just fine. Again: OS X is better and easier to use. But that does not change the fact that they CAN and DO get their job done in Windows as well. Nothing you have said really disputes that fact.

Hell, I administrate 10 desktops, 40 laptops and half a dozen servers running Windows. According to some people here, people of this company should not be able to do any work since "you need OS X for real work! You can't do anything with Windows!". Well, they ARE working! And they get their job done! How could that be?

most people just want to write a letter, manage their digital photos, use bank services or check today's tv programs.

And they can do that just fine in Windows. Or are you saying that launching MS Word on OS X and typing a letter is somehow magically different than launching MS Word on Windows and typing a letter? No, don't tell me: On OS X, the user is not "using the computer", whereas on Windows he is. Nevermind the fact that the actual process of typing that letter is 99% identical on both.

they don't want to use a computer or browse the internet. computer is a tool which shouldn't be an obstacle. but in the real world (i mean, outside us computer literate power users) people realize that windows keeps them from doing what they want to do and also that by using a macintosh they feel like the computer is helping them to finish what they began.

So, what exactly is different in the Mac-way of working as opposed to Windows-way of working? Suppose that I launch Firefox on Windows to do my online-banking. How would that be different in OS X? Well, it isn't really. I tried. I launch a web-browser just like I would launch it on Windows. Or would OS X automatically pay my bills or something?

I'm more of a Linux-person myself. And I don't care much for Windows. But the mentality some people here have is pretty overblown. For regural users, Windows works just fine. Yes, viruses and the like are a problem, but the problem can be resolved.

 

[AidenShaw]

too literal

So you go to start to start the process of shutting down, choose shut down computer (obviously) to get to restart... this is only perfect logic as long as you say so - it would not occur to me intuitively that I should start a process to shut down or restart. I am looking for a way to END my processes (which apparently under Windows is a process in itself then...)

I didn't mean "process" as an internal O/S entity with memory, state, threads, etc.

I meant it in common English, as in "task" or "procedure" or "series of steps".

On the other hand, of course, everything that happens in the O/S happens within the context of a process. You can't execute an instruction without being in the context of a process of some form or other.

So yes, shutting down creates a process (or activates an existing system process) to take care of the shutdown sequence. UNIX is the same as Windows in this regard....

 

[Mavimao]

But the mentality some people here have is pretty overblown. For regural users, Windows works just fine. Yes, viruses and the like are a problem, but the problem can be resolved.

This is a Mac forum! Whaddya expect?!

Of course the overwhelming majority is going to favor OSX to their grave!

In any case, I could give a rat's *** what you use, but as long as I am personally happy with OS X, after years of freezes and re-booting, then that's all I care about.

(mmm! Unix goodness!)

 

[dgdosen]

Quite whining!

I use both OS’s and yes, Tiger is clean and easy to use for apps like web browsers, video, or any other iLife tool. It’s great. At the same time, Windows with .net is a great environment for developing distributed applications that share data among many users – typical in any company. and they have more mind share than java. So from my perspective both sides have their positive attributes, and both sides have negatives – Windows is more susceptible to bugs, faulty drivers – but it is a more open hardware environment. That’s part of the cost, and a good reason to go with a mac for trouble free use.

Both have their sweet spot. I think both sides will compete heavily for the home server market. On one side, you’ll have Apple with proven functionality with iTunes and reliability, and on the other you have MS with their MediaCenter PC, more accepted DRM and some pretty cool partners. What I want to know is which environment will enable usage of HDMI cards or Cable/Satellite receivers on a card – to really make a Home Theater PC. - That's where these two companies will really clash - and I can't wait, beceuase the competition will bring out the best.

 

[macmax77]

Mac OS X has a lot of features that are half baked yes including spotlight! At the end of the day if an OS has improved, it has improved. One thing i would like to see is an improved UPnP.

I think once people get the prettier windows, most of the "casual" users will fail to see any reason to switch. Most of the people who buy macs (other than the hardcore mac guys) are people who just want a pretty system not because of any technical superiority (as if they understand and even better because they donot care)!!

i have never in my life seen such a "smart dude" like yourself.

I am glad we have you here all day to dissed Apple and everything they do.

Maybe u are paid by Msft, who knows, but one thing is for certain and that is that u, my friend , are against every Apple move and against all the specialized writters/people that have written about the best operating system available today

OSX

So please , stop argumenting where you cannot win.

At least we have u on board and not banned like what those msft dudes did to me in their board becasue i shared my views.

On second thought, u should be banned for writing so much blah blah without one real truth

 

[cr2sh]

i have never in my life seen such a "smart dude" like yourself.

I am glad we have you here all day to dissed Apple and everything they do.

Maybe u are paid by Msft, who knows, but one thing is for certain and that is that u, my friend , are against every Apple move and against all the specialized writters/people that have written about the best operating system available today

OSX

So please , stop argumenting where you cannot win.

At least we have u on board and not banned like what those msft dudes did to me in their board becasue i shared my views.

On second thought, u should be banned for writing so much blah blah without one real truth

Wow. Great post.

I think Microsoft Vista's slogan should be "Making your Windows eXPerience... more Mac like."

 

[Fabio_gsilva]

And most people can do those tasks in Windows as well.

Yep, and I had to restar my computer at least two times a day because Outlook and Word, combined with IE, crashes windows a lot...

Man, If Word crash Windows, both MS best-seller products, and they can't "stand" each other, what do you have to say to help this lame OS??

Windows is crap.

 

[macmax77]

this is the only way i would end up getting a box from microslut, and then anyway, i would loose the box

 

[deputy_doofy]

So please tell me why dragging a device to the trash ejects it instead of deleting the data on it?

By the way, you start activities through the "Start" menu, so that is a perfectly logical place to go to start the process of shutting down.

I don't disagree that throwing a device into the trash is weird, since you would think it would "trash" the device (format it, etc.).

However, have you been using 10.x at all? The trash symbol becomes an eject symbol for all devices and the "eject via trash can" arguement has been gone for the last 5 years.

If we can use the "Start" button to "start the shutdown process," why not have a redneck version of Windows with a "Fixin" button.
I'm fixin' to shut this here 'puter down.

 

[wdlove]

So far lets just say Apple Has Nothing to Worry about....its still windows XP
with a whole host of disjointed features. Vista is nooothing like OS X.

Keep the faith Mac users.


SP

I'm not at all concerned, my faith is with the innovation of Apple. Now to see if Steve will have Leopard ready for the 4th quarter of '06.

 

[RobHague]

http://www.pdjkeelan.com/duelmonstersexpert/vista.png


I had some free time and was just playing around, it was not a 'Mac better than PC' thing it was just a little joke about the feature set of "Longhorn/Vista". However where i originally posted this people didnt really get it

 

[Quixcube]

I'm not at all concerned, my faith is with the innovation of Apple. Now to see if Steve will have Leopard ready for the 4th quarter of '06.

I hope Vista makes Apple nervous and keeps it innovating. Competition is always a good thing. The better Windows is, the better OS X has to be.

It is a two way street everyone, don't forget that. For example, 10.4 Server (not client) is the first version of OS X that supports access control lists for file permissions, for god's sake. I have been waiting for years for this technology to find its way into OS X while those "poor Windows users" have had it since the early to mid 90s.

Competition = effort.

 

[rendezvouscp]

I could use both. I LOVE OSX. My point was that there are certain things that Windows does infact do better and that gives it an advantage over OSX. Giving Windows these new features makes it great for people who need these certain functions.

Yup.

I'm still wondering, does anyone know any reports about the rendering engine in IE 7? It's probably not done, but I'd like a little bit of hope that the IE team is getting something done.
-Chase

EDIT: I saw the post above, I'm not a newbie. I'm just curious if there's actually any reports, because the IE team is supposed to have an IE 7 beta out this summer (yeah, but I didn't really fall for it ).
-Chase

 

[SPUY767]

Here's the bottom line with the UI

The windows UI will be eternally inferior to the Mac OS X UI no matter if they call it Avalon, Camry, or Celica. Why? Well, as you can see the graphic effects in the screen shots are re-rendered. There is no advanced processing going on there. Unlike OS X In which almost the entire UI is offloaded onto the GPU. They look like they have managed to make the Icons bigger than a Mac's. That's a real improvement. It's more of the same from redmond apparently, Where a 128x128 icon is feasible and reasonable, anything else is too much, and it pretty much personifies windows product design. Let's take something that looks cool, copy it, but overdo it so much that it ceases to be the thing it was that made it cool.

Way to go bill.

 

[SPUY767]

I hope Vista makes Apple nervous and keeps it innovating. Competition is always a good thing. The better Windows is, the better OS X has to be.

It is a two way street everyone, don't forget that. For example, 10.4 Server (not client) is the first version of OS X that supports access control lists for file permissions, for god's sake. I have been waiting for years for this technology to find its way into OS X while those "poor Windows users" have had it since the early to mid 90s.

Competition = effort.

If those poor windows users were running NT. In which case I feel for them, cause the early NTs were a bitch and a half.