Windows Vista Beta 1 and Tiger

[MrJohnson]

Forced? There's plenty of games out there for a Mac and they run beautifully on today's hardware. I'm not a computer game fan, so I've always thought that dedicated boxes are much cheaper and better for games.

There are a certain few games that are not avaliable for OSX which are good enough to stray away from OSX because of. E.G. Halflife2 and Battlefield2. The Game consoles are only updated every 4-5 years. During this time they loose the ability to support new physics and graphics engines which gives the advantage back to the computer user. Plus I have better control over my games with a mouse and keyboard than I do a controller.

Just because some people don't tweak an OS a lot doesn't mean they're retards, and there's plenty of "retards" that do tweak their OS. Frankly, I think your use of retard is offending.

I was actually refering to people using Windows. People who just push yes to every pop-up that asks if they want a million dollars.

It doesn't have amazing gaming support, but perhaps amazing games. Did I mention the titles available for the Mac? However, DirectX is easy to code for and inviting to developers, since most people have Windows. No contest there.

The best games for OSX are: Doom III, WoW, and BF1942. Doom3 sucked. Period. BF1942 is getting old to the point of not being fun but WoW is still a mighty great game. I'll give you that. Oh yeah. Starcraft kicks ass too.

Certain few things? Hm, I manage to surf, e-mail, listen to music, manage photos, edit video, edit audio, edit photos, torrent, encode this and that, create documents, etc. I know I missed something...

I didn't meant to be offensive. All I meant was there are certain things that you plain ass can't do on OSX. I realize you can do a majority of things on OSX.

That's...good for you. Just like using a Mac is good for me since I can do what I want to do more effectively than on Windows. Perhaps your workflow NEEDS Windows, but mine doesn't, and I think that a majority of computer users don't actually need Windows, since the Mac is completely viable as an alternative.

That was the point of my posts was to show that Windows doesn't suck to some people. The only reason it sucks to some of you is because there are certain things that you don't do that I need or want to do.

I'm pretty sure it does, since if a Mac has a certain technology available to it (such as multiple processors, QE, etc.) then it can take advantage of those things. I'm not particularly sure if an OS "tweaks" itself depending on your hardware. I think that if things are available, they're taken advantage of.


I know I come off as argumentative, but I'm trying to come across with a point. You sound like a reasonable person that uses what they use because it's what fits them best, and I'm the same way. So, I hope I'm not coming off like I think you're stupid or anything, because I don't. I'm just providing a different perspective. But the bottom line is that some people use Windows because it's best for them. Some people use Windows because they're lost sheep that never knew that there are better alternatives out there. I think that there are those types of users for most everything.

I could use both. I LOVE OSX. My point was that there are certain things that Windows does infact do better and that gives it an advantage over OSX. Giving Windows these new features makes it great for people who need these certain functions.

 

[MrJohnson]

With all due respect, Mr. Johnson, I must take issue with your statement.

I have a beautiful little PC with which I find most pleasant to use; Firefox is fast, it's very quiet, and with the right security-ware, I believe/feel/have warm fuzzies that it's virtually safe whilst plugged into the 'net.

Fine. Great. Now, I wanted to do some semi-pro audio editing, burn some red book compliant CDs with crossfades, edit some video (without the disc fragmenting almost immediately), and then begin to look for some software to exract previously encoded movies (my own) from earlier DVDs for further editing, and download more than two files at once on my browser.

$1200 later, all I can do with my PC (OK - I'm stubborn - even to the point of throwing good money after bad) is surf the web (safely, I think...) and...well...that's about it.

Don't get me wrong - I'm keeping my PC, it works OK for what I do with it - but being stuck with this bill has me very disappointed with XP's offerings; it doesn't look like Vista will alleviate this, either. So far, OSX: 1; XP:0.

Back on topic:

The screen shots of Vista were very informative. However, from the looks of things, nothing much has changed from the persepective of the GUI; more interesting to me will be if there are any changes to NTFS, whether or not there will be integrated security systems, and finally, how much overhead is required to run the new system.

Thanks for listening.

Well maybe I didn't read that correctly but..

Actually you could do all of that on a $1200 computer. You simply spent your money wrong. I you had bought a dual core processor, extra ram, and a decent video card all of that would be completly possible. Yes Apple does have better software cheaper for some of that stuff but you can do it on your windows powered computer which was my point. I have the ability to do all of that and I don't understand why you don't.

 

[zflauaus]

Windows "Vista" has lost a lot of the functionality that was supposed to make this the "Best Windows Operating System of all time." Like the folks on the TWiT podcast said in episode 14, "Vista" is becoming a bigger joke than ME, and we all know how ME was. And the rumor that you are supposed to have a "digitally signed monitor" to have "the best media experience" is a big joke. The next gen filesystem is gone. This is why I am switching to the Mac. Mac OS X will keep building on where Windows has fallen short. I'm sorry Microsoft, but you lost a user a long time ago.

 

[Tamer Brad]

I love how people say "Windows is great for running games!" when you are practically not even using the OS, especially the GUI, while playing the game ... the game is only designed to work on the Windows system. Windows doesn't do anything amazing with it at all. We should not be praising Windows for its "great support" of games, but scorning developers for their abandonment of Apple consumers.

 

[SiliconAddict]

...And leaked to thousands of spyware, virus and trojan horse programers. Windows Vista will be the first OS to come preloaded with viri to keep Symantec and other anti-virus software makers in cash for years to come.

I'm doubting that. Finally MS is going to have user accounts run as power users instead of administrators. This is cut down bit time on the number of viruses or at the very least it won't be as easy to crack windows. That and "supposedly MS has been talking up the C word A LOT over the last year. Compartmentalizing segments of code so, again, theoretically crap like blaster can’t happen again. Time will tell if this is the case and if they really have made progress on security. The one thing that makes me hopeful is that they opted to drop features off the OS. This IMHO speak volumes to where MS is focusing this time around. In the past MS has stuffed loads of bloated features into the OS and said screw security. I personally would be more then happy if the only thing that came from WV was a more secure platform. They can always add other crap later.
The one big thing that is irking me right now and I should have seen it coming a mile away. Steve Ballbuster has a small article on c|net about how more “expensive” versions of Windows and office are on their way. Umm clue to MS. Don’t start patting yourself on the back too early you morons.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I love how people say "Windows is great for running games!" when you are practically not even using the OS, especially the GUI, while playing the game ... the game is only designed to work on the Windows system. Windows doesn't do anything amazing with it at all. We should not be praising Windows for its "great support" of games, but scorning developers for their abandonment of Apple consumers.

Umm drivers also have a lot to do with it. Be it video card drivers (Which are worlds ahead of most of Apple's stuff for obvious reason) or because MS has a pretty damn robust API set with Direct X.

 

[jinzo012]

I just recieved Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and IT IS A COPY OF SAFARI an absolute copy. for example the Google search is now integrated and is in the same spot as the safari. When the Search field isn't selected and is empty the Words "Google" appear in faded grey colours, and the Tabbed feature looks pretty familiar the only thing I can see wasn't copied was the RSS button (which is now in the main icons bar) which of course isn't as nice, and it seems that the ways the icon of the website shows up is in the exact same spot as it is in Safari.

Why doesn't Apple sue? this isn't the only time MS has copied Apple.

 

[JFreak]

im coming from the fact that it is not in the vested interest of most hackers to go after an OS that has only about 5% market share.

market share has nothing to do with this issue. there are very little hackers that want to hack and take advantage of their precious darling unix operating system. there are some, but most hackers that know about unix always contribute their findings to the unix community in general. so whenever somebody finds a weakness, it is reported and fixed. but whenever somebody finds a hole in windows, a hundred new virii is distributed. there IS a difference between unix and the rest of the bunch, and in my opinion it was THE wisest move apple has ever made to begin using unix core instead of a new core of their own.

I know that UNIX is far more secure then Windows will ever be. But throught the use of virus scanners, spyware removers and other programs, it is possible to have a Windows computer that is devoid of malware. I know becuase I managed to do that for an entire school year.

what is the point of buying new powerful computers if they must be loaded with performance-crippling applications? do you even understand how big is that performance hit? it is so big developers cannot afford it!! we're talking about 20% and more.

and you managed to stay "clean" for a year? wo-hoo. unix has been up and running since about 1960 with only singular security issues. windows gets compromised more often every single minute. compare about a minute to about half-a-century...

I was just saying that if the market share roles were reversed, Apple would be the target of more code-slingers like Microsoft is right now. It is simple logic when you assume these people want to do as much damage as they possibley can, so naturally they attack the big guy. Thats all i was trying to say.

no, you're wrong. take a look at linux, which has (a wild guess) three times as much market share apple has, and they are both just as secure. geeks love unix and no market share revolution will ever change that.

 

[doppelganger]

I just recieved Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and IT IS A COPY OF SAFARI an absolute copy. for example the Google search is now integrated and is in the same spot as the safari. When the Search field isn't selected and is empty the Words "Google" appear in faded grey colours, and the Tabbed feature looks pretty familiar the only thing I can see wasn't copied was the RSS button (which is now in the main icons bar) which of course isn't as nice, and it seems that the ways the icon of the website shows up is in the exact same spot as it is in Safari.

Why doesn't Apple sue? this isn't the only time MS has copied Apple.

actually i just read that the second beta version of IE will have RSS changes. so they just haven't gotten around to ripping that part off yet
http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/internet/0,39024165,39210992,00.htm

also, i see what you mean about the search bar. here's a screen cap incase anyone wants

 

[JFreak]

because I'm not ignorant I can keep it clean and malware/spyware/virus free

did you know that 90% of people are ignorant? and if you didn't doesn't that make you ignorant too

 

[JFreak]

But the close/minimise/maximise buttons - whose bright idea was it to shift them left??

it was Larry's, John's, Steve's and Bruce's idea. the ORIGINAL idea by the people that created the buttons in the first place. it was microsoft's idea to shift them right as they perhaps thought it would not have looked like copying then.

didn't you know that macintosh gui is a lot older than the windows gui? microsoft copied apple, not the other way around.

 

[JFreak]

Since I play games regularly I'm pretty much forced into using Windows.

no, you're not. there are always the consoles, which imho offer better gaming experience than any general-purpose computer. you don't have to use windows for games, but instead you have chosen to.

since I'm not a retard I learn to tweak my operating system to work for me.

consider yourself a power user. most of the people are "retards".

Windows is great because it's compatable with everything and can do everything I want to do reliably.

now, YOU have to get objective here. this is just the reason why windows SUCKS big time. windows supports crappy hardware and therefore becaure cheap people buy cheap crappy hardware, that makes the whole computing experience crappy as hell. that's not acceptable in my book.

But for my needs I NEED Windows. And because I'm literate I can educate myself into not screwing up my own computer so Windows XP works extremly well.

you don't need windows for gaming, period. and if you have to care about "not screwing up" your computer, doesn't that mean your computer is weak?

 

[autrefois]

Does anyone remember this picture from Tiger release spectacle?

Yes I do, I almost forgot about that one.

So I guess that means we can't complain about Microsoft stealing ideas from Tiger: Apple actually TOLD them to!

 

[JFreak]

The one thing that makes me hopeful is that they opted to drop features off the OS. This IMHO speak volumes to where MS is focusing this time around. In the past MS has stuffed loads of bloated features into the OS and said screw security. I personally would be more then happy if the only thing that came from WV was a more secure platform. They can always add other crap later.

FINALLY, somebody i can agree with

 

[JFreak]

I just recieved Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and IT IS A COPY OF SAFARI an absolute copy. for example the Google search is now integrated and is in the same spot as the safari. When the Search field isn't selected and is empty the Words "Google" appear in faded grey colours, and the Tabbed feature looks pretty familiar the only thing I can see wasn't copied was the RSS button (which is now in the main icons bar) which of course isn't as nice, and it seems that the ways the icon of the website shows up is in the exact same spot as it is in Safari.

Why doesn't Apple sue? this isn't the only time MS has copied Apple.

umm, those are not safari-exclusive features, and if i remember correctly, not even safari-first features. firefox has those, too, although safari has them most beautifully implemented.

nobody could sue microsoft on this one.

 

[MrJohnson]

Windows "Vista" has lost a lot of the functionality that was supposed to make this the "Best Windows Operating System of all time." Like the folks on the TWiT podcast said in episode 14, "Vista" is becoming a bigger joke than ME, and we all know how ME was. And the rumor that you are supposed to have a "digitally signed monitor" to have "the best media experience" is a big joke. The next gen filesystem is gone. This is why I am switching to the Mac. Mac OS X will keep building on where Windows has fallen short. I'm sorry Microsoft, but you lost a user a long time ago.

Actually that DRM is going to built into the DVD. If the operating system doesn't support it, it won't play. Anyways it only affects CRT displays that arn't digitally signed. The DRM will be cracked regardless so it's useless to bitch about it. Blame the RIAA and MPAA instead of Microsoft. Or how about blame yourself for buying the DVD.

I love how people say "Windows is great for running games!" when you are practically not even using the OS, especially the GUI, while playing the game ... the game is only designed to work on the Windows system. Windows doesn't do anything amazing with it at all. We should not be praising Windows for its "great support" of games, but scorning developers for their abandonment of Apple consumers.

How about you blame Apple for not making decent drivers for video cards. Or how about blame them for not making something compairable to Direct X (Open GL isn't good enough.)

I just recieved Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and IT IS A COPY OF SAFARI an absolute copy. for example the Google search is now integrated and is in the same spot as the safari. When the Search field isn't selected and is empty the Words "Google" appear in faded grey colours, and the Tabbed feature looks pretty familiar the only thing I can see wasn't copied was the RSS button (which is now in the main icons bar) which of course isn't as nice, and it seems that the ways the icon of the website shows up is in the exact same spot as it is in Safari.

Why doesn't Apple sue? this isn't the only time MS has copied Apple.

How about Opera had thoes features way before safari? Thoes features are common place these days. Get over it.

 

[MrJohnson]

no, you're not. there are always the consoles, which imho offer better gaming experience than any general-purpose computer. you don't have to use windows for games, but instead you have chosen to.

HAHA show me one console that can play WoW. Show me one that can play HL2. Show me one that can play BF2. I have chosen to because THE BEST GAMES are for the computer. Point ended. Also a Mouse and keyboard offer the greatest ammount of control compaired to a game pad.

now, YOU have to get objective here. this is just the reason why windows SUCKS big time. windows supports crappy hardware and therefore becaure cheap people buy cheap crappy hardware, that makes the whole computing experience crappy as hell. that's not acceptable in my book.

Yes, ok. Because Microsoft is at fault for the hardware that end users buy? Good point there. The beauty of Windows is the choice in hardware.

you don't need windows for gaming, period. and if you have to care about "not screwing up" your computer, doesn't that mean your computer is weak?

I need windows to play the games I want. I need windows to play some of the best games on the market. And no, having to care about not screwing up my operating system doesn't make it weak. You have to care about not messing up your operating system regardless of which OS you choose.

 

[JFreak]

You have to care about not messing up your operating system regardless of which OS you choose.

to some degree, yes. but i can still let my 72-year-old granddad and 4-year-old cousin use my powerbook and be sure that the most radical operating system tweak they can do is to change audio volume and display brightness. or let the battery drain by unplugging the power cord.

i wouldn't even dream of supporting any windows computer they might use...

 

[PCMacUser]

I just recieved Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and IT IS A COPY OF SAFARI an absolute copy. for example the Google search is now integrated and is in the same spot as the safari. When the Search field isn't selected and is empty the Words "Google" appear in faded grey colours, and the Tabbed feature looks pretty familiar the only thing I can see wasn't copied was the RSS button (which is now in the main icons bar) which of course isn't as nice, and it seems that the ways the icon of the website shows up is in the exact same spot as it is in Safari.

Why doesn't Apple sue? this isn't the only time MS has copied Apple.

Hmm, it looks MUCH more like Firefox to me! The search bar in the same place, the forward and back icons, the tabbed icons, etc...

Maybe it's because so many other browsers can lay claim to this particular 'look', that nobody can take action against them ha ha...

 

[conditionals]

I just recieved Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and IT IS A COPY OF SAFARI an absolute copy. for example the Google search is now integrated and is in the same spot as the safari. When the Search field isn't selected and is empty the Words "Google" appear in faded grey colours, and the Tabbed feature looks pretty familiar the only thing I can see wasn't copied was the RSS button (which is now in the main icons bar) which of course isn't as nice, and it seems that the ways the icon of the website shows up is in the exact same spot as it is in Safari.

Why doesn't Apple sue? this isn't the only time MS has copied Apple.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

Now have a look at firefox, which IE7 has more in common with. Let's all be smart and not resort to microsoft bashing.

 

[Evangelion]

+++
- everything on it seems to be ripped from Tiger! just take a look at the search symbol, it's 1:1 rip-off of Spotlight symbol!

It's a magnifying-glass. Like it or not, that's just about the best icon that represents searching.

 

[Evangelion]

no, you're not. there are always the consoles, which imho
offer better gaming experience than any general-purpose computer. you d
on't have to use windows for games, but instead you have chosen to.

This might come as a shock to you, but consoles absolutely suck for certain types of games. Good luck finding something like War in Russia, Combat Mission 1, 2, & 3, Steel Panthers, Civilization, Europa Universalis, Flashpoint Germany IL-2 Sturmovik etc. etc. on a console. And even if you did, playing those games on that dinky controller would be pain!

Many people (inlcuding you) seem to think that "if you are a gamer, you should get a console". Well, I'm a gamer, and buying a console has NEVER crossed my mind. Reason being that the type of games I play are not available on consoles. And if they were, gameplay would not be nowhere near as good as it is on a PC. I have not "chosen" to use PC/Windows for gaming instead of consoles. I just like certain types of games, and those games are not available on console. And looking at the direction the consoles are going, they never will be.

If you like racing-sims, sports-games, simple roleplaying-games, beat 'em ups and the like, then go right ahead and get a console. But don't for a second think that consoles are the ultimate gaming-machines. As far as I'm concerned, they are far from it.

you don't need windows for gaming, period.

For all intents and purposes: yes you do. If you claim otherwise, you do not know what you are talking about. Of course if by "gaming" you refer to some racing-sims and the like alone, then you could use a console just fine. But I couldn't care less about those games. The types of games I play are practically exclusive to PC, and that means Windows.

 

[slackpacker]

Kind of like the way apple forces it's loyal customers to buy overpriced, outdated and underperforming (but pretty!) computers to run it's OSX.

Sorry, had to say it.

And by the way, does anybody feel the same way I do about Tiger being a very weak upgrade to Panther? Sure, the widgets are handy, but as a user of OSX for work, I don't find much compelling about the 10.4 upgrade. I don't care about "automator" and "Spotlight." And I know most of the real world non geek users do either.

Perhaps tiger should have been Called OSX 10.3 SE.

Let the flaming begin. (by the way I prefer OSX to XP, just dissapointed lately)



PS, sorry for the spelling errors. This post was brought to you via Windows XP. Where do you want to go today?

Hey when I get a call from my friend who has been taunting me with his new 64bit AMD powerhouse with dual SLI and 600 gigs of raided hds.... and he tells me after a month he lost all his work because the raid went belly up .... I thank my slow over priced machine that has been working with no issues for a year and a half. Plus my system was No slower than his for doing any task....


Also OS X is a much better upgrade than what MS is calling Vista... WE are SOOOOO far ahead of Windows its not funny.

SP

 

[slackpacker]

I just recieved Internet Explorer 7 Beta 1 and IT IS A COPY OF SAFARI an absolute copy. for example the Google search is now integrated and is in the same spot as the safari. When the Search field isn't selected and is empty the Words "Google" appear in faded grey colours, and the Tabbed feature looks pretty familiar the only thing I can see wasn't copied was the RSS button (which is now in the main icons bar) which of course isn't as nice, and it seems that the ways the icon of the website shows up is in the exact same spot as it is in Safari.

Why doesn't Apple sue? this isn't the only time MS has copied Apple.

If you look at Firefox, Opera and others they are doing the same thing with the google search box.... Plus again.... as I stated before.... Vista is right and IE7 right now are a bunch of Disjointed features thrown at you with no reason or rhyme. IE7 is just starting to catch up to Safari... and Its NO Safari.

SP

 

[slackpacker]

This might come as a shock to you, but consoles absolutely suck for certain types of games. Good luck finding something like War in Russia, Combat Mission 1, 2, & 3, Steel Panthers, Civilization, Europa Universalis, Flashpoint Germany IL-2 Sturmovik etc. etc. on a console. And even if you did, playing those games on that dinky controller would be pain!

Many people (inlcuding you) seem to think that "if you are a gamer, you should get a console". Well, I'm a gamer, and buying a console has NEVER crossed my mind. Reason being that the type of games I play are not available on consoles. And if they were, gameplay would not be nowhere near as good as it is on a PC. I have not "chosen" to use PC/Windows for gaming instead of consoles. I just like certain types of games, and those games are not available on console. And looking at the direction the consoles are going, they never will be.

If you like racing-sims, sports-games, simple roleplaying-games, beat 'em ups and the like, then go right ahead and get a console. But don't for a second think that consoles are the ultimate gaming-machines. As far as I'm concerned, they are far from it.



For all intents and purposes: yes you do. If you claim otherwise, you do not know what you are talking about. Of course if by "gaming" you refer to some racing-sims and the like alone, then you could use a console just fine. But I couldn't care less about those games. The types of games I play are practically exclusive to PC, and that means Windows.

So you do what I did ..... get a windows machine for Games and use OS X for really everyday work.. I have my PC just for games and things I can't get for OS X and thats it.... I hate every minute that I have to use it..(it just feels different) as it stands Vista still is no replacement for OS X.... Oh its great for the gamer or a guy who does not have a Mac but if you do you will know what I am saying.

There is a difference.... I am an avid windows user from the days of DOS and 3.11 I have had My Mac's for the last Yr & 1/2 so don't tell me I have no basis in saying that. I built my PC I have had every Graphics card known and Have all the latest gear for gaming.... I just simply go back to MAC for my daily use... surfing, Bloging, Video Editing storing all my important info that I need fast.