Windows with Anti-Virus vs Mac without Anti-Virus

Discussion in 'macOS' started by Nyan, Jun 2, 2009.

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  1. Nyan macrumors member

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    #1
    OS X gets viruses the same way Windows does, from downloading programs from P2P services. Oh and...
    I don't have to pay for any of these. Not because I'm pirating them or something, but because I use free ones. I've heard horror stories about them, and that might apply to some that are really malware posing as AV/anti spyware programs, but mine are all proven programs from legitimate security companies. My (free) Antivirus is substantially better than most for-pay ones anyway. Either way, I'm still more secure running Windows + security compared to OS X + nothing. Even assuming that a virus could never break through OS X's magic defenses, that configuration does nothing about tracking cookies or phishing. I know my computer doesn't have any viruses because my antivirus program tell me. Keeping in mind that well made viruses are deigned specifically to hide their presence, How do you know you don't have any viruses? Oh, and if you turn out to be right, and 7 is the end for Microsoft, OS X is going to be the new target.

    Wait, Ad blocker? I wasn't even aware there were any that wanted you to pay for them. I also fail to see how OS X is any different in that regard.

    Take a guess what kind of computer I'm posting on right now. It's a 17 inch Mac Book Pro. At the time I bought it, it was the lightest laptop with the specs I wanted, I was interested in trying out a non Microsoft OS, liked the longer battery life, I wanted to be able start from a clean installation rather than one with a bunch of trail software, take your pick. That last one turned out to actually a bit of false advertising, it came with a trial for Aperture.

    I have had massive problems with XP and vista on this computer. Why? Because it's a Mac, so for running Windows I have to use whatever drivers trickle out of Apple, the black box of the consumer electronic industry.

    And it's kind of funny that you assume that you know what I use my computer for. I do use it for games, but if that was the only problem I had with OS X, I'd just fire up Crossover and be done with it. No, I find OS X's interface to be almost insufferable for anything that uses a mouse, a keyboard, multiple windows, or is best suited to run in full screen.

    Specifically, OS X forces an acceleration curve on your mouse pointer. It gives you no option to turn it off. It can be bypassed using USB Overdrive, but that's fixing a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place and disables me from using on-the-fly sensitivity adjustment. That feature sounds like it's just for games, but I get far more use out of it when I'm using Blender or The GIMP.

    The keyboard is more a problem with Apple's mushy keys, but there's also the irritating way Apple maps all their hotkeys to command. This results in a conflict with numerous programs, and other OS X specific hotkeys.

    OS X's application focused ui really screws me up when I'm trying to read from one window and type into another window when both those windows are for the same program. You know how I got around this? I installed both Word and Neoffice, and run them at the same time. This would be no problem in windows, because I can just hit Alt+Tab to swap between them, but the same key stroke in OS X can only swap between application, not windows. I can start expose with F11 or something, but I still need the mouse to select the new window, meaning I need to take my hands off the keyboard. Spaces sort of fixed this problem, but it's still a more complex process, and I could still just use Windows and not deal with it at all.

    OS X doesn't play nice with programs that like screen space. That dock just gets in the way no matter what. I also miss the taskbar... pretty much the entire time I'm using OS X. Instead of using Expose, I can just scan my eyeballs across the row of programs and read what each one is.
     
  2. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #2
    The point of writing a wall of text bashing out OS X? Not to sound rude or anything, but the tone you have in this text makes you sound like troll waiting to start a flame war.
     
  3. Mal macrumors 603

    Mal

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    #3
    Umm, and the point of this (quite misinformed, btw) rant was...???

    Seriously dude, if you're going to troll, make it about something truly offensive. It's funnier that way.

    jW
     
  4. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    Portland, OR
    #4
    wow. You're so original. If OSX is so horrible then go back to windows. No one here is going to try to get you to stay.

    And btw command+~ switches between windows in one application.

    And there is not a single virus for OS X. There is malware, but no viruses.
     
  5. uberamd macrumors 68030

    uberamd

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    #5
    OS X doesn't have magical defenses. Its called Unix. Read up on it.

    Do you value your time? Why do I ask? I work at a University doing tech work. 100% of the work I do is fixing faculty/staff PC's. The faculty/staff with Mac's have never, not once, came into us for help beyond a simple reboot. However myself and various other student workers spend countless hours reimaging computers, removing viruses, scanning attached USB devices, and troubleshooting malware. That costs the University mega $ (they pay us after all), and that cost goes down to the students. I don't care how you try to spin it, Windows is less secure and more prone to problems. I work in a field where I witness it 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. Its a fact.

    As for phishing, thats the end user completely. If they are dumb enough to get tricked by a phishing scam, thats their business. No OS would fix that, its 100% web based. Sure you can install software for it, but if you use your head, its pointless.

    Windows anti-everythingware just bogs the system down. And Windows causes headaches for techs like myself. So you sir, lose.
     
  6. 01jamcon macrumors 6502a

    01jamcon

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    London
    #6
    So basically your problem is that you're using a Mac, when what you really want is a PC? Hopefully the PC manufacturers have got a better offering for you now that can compete with the Macbook Pro, and Windows 7 is actually decent. I suggest you switch back when you can.
     
  7. dejo Moderator

    dejo

    Staff Member

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    #7
    was followed immediately by:
    Oh, the irony...
     
  8. 01jamcon macrumors 6502a

    01jamcon

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    #8
    Ad blockers can be found in free browsers such as Camino for the Mac.
    Yer, its such a shame Apple puts a trial for an actually useful bit of software that can be easily deleted if you so wish. As opposed to pretty crapware loaded onto most PC's.

    Uh, you could always minimize the dock?
     
  9. Fizzoid macrumors 68020

    Fizzoid

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    #9
    Yup, nice to see he posted a well though out and balanced discussion :)
     
  10. TheSpaz macrumors 604

    TheSpaz

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    #10
    I have the solution. If you're happier in Windows, go back to Windows. You just sound like you're bashing the Mac for no reason. You're *trying* to find reasons to dislike the Mac. Are there any things you like about the Mac experience? You should list a set of features you like about Mac OS X and see how they compare to what you like about Windows. Then see which OS has more of what you like and decide based on that.
     
  11. uberamd macrumors 68030

    uberamd

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    #11
    The dock gets in the way, but the task bar doesn't. That makes a lot of sense.

    Hows that cryptic control panel working out for you windows fanboy? Or the start Menu? Thats a blast to work with isn't it! /end sarcasm
     
  12. contoursvt macrumors 6502a

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    Jul 22, 2005
    #12
    Whats wrong with the start menu? Its the simplest thing in the world to use and its very functional. Control panel is not cryptic either, its just cluttered...there is a difference :)


     
  13. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #13
    There are no viruses for OS X, only trojans which have to be installed and needs admins password. If you look what you download and don't visit Russian "we all know what sites" you'll be 100% safe.

    In Windows, you have to use 3rd party software for everything and that's one of the worst things in Windows. Always headache is this a virus or trojan what I'm downloading now. And it takes over 2 weeks for any anti-virus program to to detect new trojan/virus so if I make a virus now, I can spread it to computers for at least 2 weeks and nobody will see it and remove it.

    You're just not happy with your Mac or you're jealous because you don't have one...
     
  14. Jethryn Freyman macrumors 68020

    Jethryn Freyman

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    Location:
    Australia
    #14
    No viruses for OS X. Zero. Only trojans, which you get if you are dumb/inexperienced enough to fall for social engineering tricks.

    Same on OS X.

    No, "secure" is a word to describe a system, not something that takes into account of user stupidity and user mistakes. Tracking cookies and phishing are no reflection on the security of an operating system.

    How do you know you don't? As of today, there are been no discovered viruses for OS X.

    You don't, Firefox + Adblock = free.

    No, you can download the proper drivers and install them.

    No it doesn't.

    I like the keyboard, but I agree about the hotkeys. Apple changed them for the worse in the last keyboard update
     
  15. Pika macrumors 68000

    Pika

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    #15
    lol... yet there is no proof of a mac virus...
     
  16. Nyan thread starter macrumors member

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    Apr 12, 2009
    #16
    Can you not believe that someone who owns a Mac actually doesn't like it!? Do I have to post pictures of the damn thing before you'll believe that I actually own one?

    And you still don't get it. The whole point of that wall of text was to point out problems I have with OS X, problems which you obviously do not. The idea is that the same OS doesn't work for everyone.
    I did.

    And you really think it takes AV companies two week to update a definition file? Apple has programed you well.
    Irrelevant, they acted as though it came with no trial software, but it does.
    I figured both out when I was six.

    You want features I like about OS X? OK...

    - Don't have to deal with drivers (Though I'm the kind of control freak who would rather get them from the manufacturer)
    - .app packages makes program uninstallation faster and neater

    ...and that's it.
     
  17. uberamd macrumors 68030

    uberamd

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    #17
    The start menu is a joke. Some apps use folders, some dump right in "All Programs", utilities are in "Accessories->System Tools", etc. Its a cluster f**k of bloat.

    How about Program Files? An array of folders, that require uninstall programs, as well as install programs. Going into "Program Files" and all you see are company names and app names, no visual cue icons. Even if you find the icon, there will usually be a few .exe files in each folder so which do you run? Better reference the shortcut. Oh, the shortcut passes parameters in? Dumb. The OS X way of a single Application folder with drag-drop install and uninstall, and using an icon to visually see each app is much more friendly.

    And Control Panel is cryptic (meaning obscure). Show my sister or mom Control Panel, and they will get lost immediately. It isn't intuitive. Maybe it was back in 1995, but not in 2009.
     
  18. uberamd macrumors 68030

    uberamd

    Joined:
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    #18
    Why didn't you reply to my previous reply, about how my University needs to spend tens of thousands a year to troubleshoot and fix Windows systems? Justify that. I have also made a rant or two on the topic: http://steve.blogme.us/2009/03/21/mac-vs-pc-my-take/

    Oh, and take a look at a system that was brought into our office for fixing. I attached the image. (and the context)
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Jethryn Freyman macrumors 68020

    Jethryn Freyman

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    Australia
    #19
    I agree, it's horrible trying to find things in Program Files. Some are under the product name, others under nested in 2 or 3 folders named after the developer and publisher.

    True, at least there's less on OS X, and it's generally either Apple's software or Microsoft's, and it's easy to uninstall.
     
  20. MacAndy74 macrumors 65816

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    Australia
    #20
    Nyan use what you want but don't spread stupid Micro-dweeb FUD.
    Since you love Windows so much, stop wasting your time here, find a new home - think Neowin.
     
  21. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #21
    Well. I'll help you out and take your post apart.

    Irrelevant. OS X computers don't need anitvirus. The dock is multitudes easier to use than the start menu.

    You basically do. :rolleyes: Except with a Mac you don't have to worry about looking for them.

    BS. There isn't a single virus for OS X.

    Sure. Because there's no freeware for OS X. :rolleyes:

    Do you have a single source to back this up? There are antivirus softwares for OS X, btw. If you're so paranoid. They don't protect you from anything (because there's nothing to be protected from) but they are available, if you're so Windows centric.

    All of your issues so far stem from your thought process that OS X should act like Windows instead of acting like OS X.

    What magic defenses? You mean the magic part where OS X doesn't allow a file to be installed without the user's knowledge?

    LOLS!

    Who here has said 7 is going to fail? I've seen nothing but praise for it on this site. Windows 7 is a very nice OS. So is Leopard, and I bet Snow Leopard will be, too.

    What are you even talking about? OS X has plenty of free ad blockers. I use Firefox (plenty of ad blockers there) my sister uses Safari (I couldn't tell you which blocker she uses, but I'm sure she does given she introduced me to them).

    Nothing worse than a single .app folder that you can delete as soon as you find it, it's not like it does anything just sitting in your Applications folder.

    BS. I haven't had any problems running any version of Windows on my computer, and you can always just download the drivers directly from the manufacturer.

    When will you people ever grow up?

    Like...? What apps are best suited to run fullscreen? In my experience any app that is best run full screen has a full screen mode. If you're talking about a maximized Window, OS X also supports this. In fact it's a common misconception that the zoom button doesn't put you in a maximized window. It does for the vast majority of programs. Other programs the developer has deemed a maximized window unnecessary.

    Okay... that's how OS X works. If you want a computer to work more like a Windows computer, then use a Windows computer.

    This is better than the guessing game in Windows. "Was it control+M, alt+M, Windows Key+M....?"

    Sounds like you didn't spend any time getting used to the UI.

    Yeah. Command+Tab is the application switcher. Command+~ is the window switcher. Why is that such a hard concept?
    Or you can use the arrow keys. It's really getting annoying that you keep lying and telling BS.

    THEN GO USE WINDOWS

    THEN GO USE WINDOWS.
     
  22. iMouse macrumors regular

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Boardman, Ohio
    #22
    As a malware research specialist, all I can say is "FAIL".

    Nearly all malicious content these days is in the form of a Trojan Horse that ends up on a user's computer typically in one of two ways...

    Through an exploit of a known/unknown vulnerability in software (and now hardware) or exploitation of the end user. This simply means that a user visiting a website with "browser X" loaded with "vulnerable plugin Y" creates an opportunity for pwnage.

    Trojan Horses (especially ones that are aware of system processes) can cloak themselves from anti-virus software and inject polymorphing code into active services and processes. This creates an environment where your anti-virus or anti-malware software detects the initial Trojan Horse after a signature for the malicious file is released, but the injected code has already carried out its payload. To make things worse, some are self-monitoring where if the initial Trojan Horse and/or registry entries are deleted, the injected code, in say svchost or explorer, generate new Trojans with modified signatures.

    I have yet to see an anti-virus product that is looking for more than the signature of a malicious item, not directly at its behavior. This is where host intrusion prevention software often picks up, but is typically a nuisance to the end user as they can encounter a whole range of false-positives.

    Your best protection is to know your computer. This means ALL of you! Mac, Linux, Windows, whatever...

    If you see a sudden spike in network traffic for no reason, check it out.
    If you see changes in hard disk activity, check it out.
    If you notice that outgoing packet count on your router is high, check it out.
    If you see system settings suddenly changed (like holes in your firewall, services that are enabled that weren't previously), check it out!
     
  23. windywoo macrumors 6502a

    windywoo

    Joined:
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    #23
    Even though I don't agree with his points I understand why he is posting like this. Just take a look through these forums and see how many posts there are with a similar tone but directed towards Windows, ill informed and nit-picking.

    I think he posts here out of a sense of balancing things out.
     
  24. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    #24
    It doesn't balance anything on a Maccentric forum. It just stirs the pot (in an uninteresting and misinformed sort of way)
     
  25. contoursvt macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    #25
    "The start menu is a joke. Some apps use folders, some dump right in "All Programs", utilities are in "Accessories->System Tools", etc. Its a cluster f**k of bloat"

    And what happens when you install OSX apps. Last time I checked many programs have folders as well...quark, adobe suite..etc. So if you go into your hard drives and into your application folder, some have folders and some dont. Is this somehow any more consistent? Also in windows, only windows supplied tools go under 'accessories' so its not confusing at all. Nothing ever EVER changes in that folder. Also its not called "all program files". Not sure what version of windows you were using. LOL

    "How about Program Files? An array of folders, that require uninstall programs, as well as install programs. Going into "Program Files" and all you see are company names and app names, no visual cue icons. Even if you find the icon, there will usually be a few .exe files in each folder so which do you run?"

    Its very easy really. Run the installer to install and uninstalling can be done just as easily...a few clicks here and there. Trashing apps in OSX often times leave behind preferences and stuff in the library folder which you have to manually trash anyway - if you remember to do it anyway. Wish I had an uninstaller in OSX for my apps. Also why would you even go into the program files folder on the hard drive in windows. Every application installed automatically makes a shortcut for you in the start menu. Saves the hassle of creating your own alias or doing retarded stuff like going into the hard drive to find an executable to run it. Its 2 clicks away when its in the start menu.

    "And Control Panel is cryptic (meaning obscure). Show my sister or mom Control Panel, and they will get lost immediately. It isn't intuitive. Maybe it was back in 1995, but not in 2009"

    I'll agree with you on this one. For novice users, there are way too many options but hey, I'm not a novice and I prefer options so maybe its cryptic or obscure for some but its fine for others. Like I said before, its just cluttered so its kinda ugly to look at but I dont really care. I go into control panel about once every 2-3 weeks for something.

     
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