With the Google Antitrust Ruling, Will Apple Build a Search Engine?

[CarAnalogy]

Apple making a search engine, the EU is going to love that.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

As a stockholder, this news annoys me. And also they are right. I don't like Google. They are worse than they've ever been about just about everything. But who else for search? I really try to use alternatives but Google does usually just work better.

 

[eifelbube]

Apple already lets the user choose which search engine to use, and has for a very long time. There are five different search engines available in Safari->Settings->Search. Do you know this?

That’s part of the point of the lawsuit. Apple chooses the engine for the user first. The first you do a search, it completes the search using that choice Apple made. Many people do not know that there is a setting. When you set up your new Apple device, you get prompted for all kinds of things. There could be a prompt for Search Engine choice.

 

[jimbobb24]

I just want a search that doesn’t get filtered through someone’s ideology before it gives me the results. Google has completely lost my trust with their AI and search.

 

[jz0309]

This. Apple has had plenty of time to plan for this, and even more time now that this ruling has landed but will not be enforced yet, pending appeal.

Alphabet is so desperate to have Google be the primary search engine on Apple devices because advertisers know that the iOS and macOS demographic are the ones who spend a disproportionate amount in ad conversions. Google makes the most in ad sales from Apple users.

So, if that's the case, why not Apple generate that revenue themselves? Running a search engine and an ad business was probably not their intention but if they lose those billions from Google, they'll have every incentive to do it now. Not only will they replace that Google payout, they'll set themselves on a path of future growth which Tim Cook has been trying to do in his pivot to services.

yes, and I don't see Apple doing that, get in the ad biz and search engine. Why, it would only work for them if they were the defaults, and given the current situation (Google marked as a monopoly, DOJ lawsuit against Apple, DMA ...) Apple could not make their own search engine the default ... and the average iPhone user, if prompted during setup to choose a search engine, would choose google ...

 

[The Apple Bitch]

lol Apple makes MORE than enough money to cover it. It's the shareholders that won't be pleased. Because everything revolves around shareholders these days.

While I can't speak for the shareholders I would imagine them being thrilled about the potential benefits of Apple finally expanding into a new market. A big market of hundreds of billions.

It might not be a direct success or even make it to other platforms there are still an enormous revenue stream from just Apple devices.

Remember that everything that would make it into Apple's pockets wouldn't be in Google's. Rivalry!

 

[hellopupy]

I want the possibility to use Brave Search Engine!

I've downloaded brave browser app on IOS and set default to it, unfortunately thats the best we have for now.

I think Google had this coming, they became the monopolized #1 then censored search results. You can't be this obvious and get away with it.

 

[frownface]

Apple would push bing on you for the money, I believe for a few years siri used bing, who knows why they switch back to google

"Remember back when siri used bing? when siri was actually good?"
- no one ever

 

[The Apple Bitch]

I hope only safari can access this apple search engine.

Why? To make sure the non-Apple experience doesn't tarnish its reputation? More platforms = More money ≈ More improvements..
Could you explain the downsides.. I don't see them :/

 

[The Apple Bitch]

Wouldn’t Apple AI replace any web browser search engine with ease once it is available?

I don't think so. I don't think any AI comes close to what would be required of it.

Large Language Models are auto-correct on steroids. They do not know ANYTHING. They can imitate humans scary well but they can be convinced that 2 + 2 = 5.

It won't be possible until AI can know things. Another problem would arise whenever they are capable of that: Can the creators be trusted? Can we be sure that what we are mouth feed isn't biased, twisted or unjust.

Imagine asking the AI who of Israel and Palestine are right. The user will be able to make their own conclusions using a search engine. Any AI is far from being able to justify such a task.

 

[Biro]

Saw earlier today that DuckDuckGo wants repeated search engine selection prompts. As in incessant pop-ups pestering you to confirm your selection. Absolutely unhinged.

Just like every time you return to many web sites, you have to select which cookies you will except. Every time. Thanks EU.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Thanks EU.

You can thank creepy ad-tracking and user profiling stalkers.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

It won't be possible until AI can know things. Another problem would arise whenever they are capable of that: Can the creators be trusted? Can we be sure that what we are mouth feed isn't biased, twisted or unjust.

In the defense of AI, we should be asking those same questions of the sources that search engines show us anyways.

 

[macfacts]

Why? To make sure the non-Apple experience doesn't tarnish its reputation? More platforms = More money ≈ More improvements..
Could you explain the downsides.. I don't see them :/

How does it equal more money, unless there are ads. apple should be trying to get people to buy iPhones. You do that with exclusive content like iMessage and apple maps.

 

[Macaholic868]

All Apple needs to do is show the same setup screen it shows in the EU but put Google at the top of the list and make it the default option. If the court doesn’t like it then just make Google the choice at the top of the list since users who don’t know the difference are likely to go with the default option or the top option they see. If the court determines it can neither suggest a default nor always have Google at the top then perhaps a blurb next to each option that tells you approximately what percentage each option has in terms of market share. If I’m a user who doesn’t know the difference I’d want the most popular search engine because they must or doing something right.

Just some thoughts about how to give users a choice but still encourage / steer them toward choosing Google (for a fee of course) without making them go into Settings after the fact.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Sure wish the government would stay out of this and allow a free market.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE MARKET IN THE REAL WORLD.

The ENTIRE concept of a free market depends on all goods that provide a certain thing being fungible. If there is ANY differentiation, the market is NOT FREE. If I had the option of buying a phone that could run iOS or a phone that could run Android from a choice of a few thousand different suppliers, any of which could supply either phone or a few thousand other operating systems on any phone I picked, and any of those thousand operating systems could run any app from any other of many thousands of sources I could choose from, there might be some semblance of a free market.

If I can only run iOS on Apple hardware, and I can only get apps that run on iOS from the idiotic Apple app store, there is not only NOT a free market, there is the literal opposite of a free market, a monopoly.

If the government is going to endorse and enforce the idiotic concept of "intellectual property", the government has already stomped the concept of a "free market" into a bloody stain on the pavement.

 

[mazz0]

Apple would push bing on you for the money, I believe for a few years siri used bing, who knows why they switch back to google

Apple probably figures why not take billions to put the best engine on there while google believes that the money is worth it to keep anyone else out, especially on pretty much the only platform they don’t control since the only real alternative to Android is iOS

Well no, that’s exactly the point: they specifically said they would never consider using Bing. They said there is no alternative to Google, regardless of money. So how why did Google need to pay them?

I don’t expect a coherent answer, because Apple+Google’s argument sounds like ********.

 

[Pakaku]

I think every AI company is missing the forest for the trees here.

People yearn for a search engine like how Google was back in the early 2000s. But this is impossible today because SEO ruined it. Now we have all these AI companies delivering quick answers to questions, but this is not search.

OpenAI or anyone else should leverage AI to show search results in a list like they used to be. Specifically, use the AI to select the top 10, 20, 100, or whatever web sites with the information you are seeking, display them in a list, with a little blurb quoting and excerpting relevant info from each link. This way, it could filter out the SEO garbage, direct the user to the info they are seeking, but still provide a semblance of control and choice by showing it in a list format instead of just a robo-answer to a question.

Or just dump AI and SEO into a dumpster fire and bring back what actually worked

 

[tobybrut]

Not having to rely on third parties.

That’s why they’ve created their own Maps service, bought Intel’s wireless modem business and design their own chips.

It’s true to some extent, but a lot of times, it’s been trauma of some kind that prompted Apple to go its own way. On wireless modems, they had a ten year long legal battle with Qualcomm that they finally lost with them ending up paying even more per phone than they were before. With designing their own chips, it was the failures of Intel that caused them to set a new course, just as the failures of PowerPC (which they were 1/3 of) caused them to go to Intel in the first place. With Apple Maps, there had been problems with Google Maps missing key features such as turn-by-turn directions that were present on the Android version. Apple decided to make their own to make sure they weren’t missing features in the future.

Typically Apple goes for self reliance when some part of their supply chain has failed or caused them grief. No such thing exists with search since search is part of the web and can’t easily be restricted on Apple devices. They have no incentive to make their own right now.

TSMC has had delays and production issues that have caused Apple problems to some degree. While they are still the best in the business, Apple’s own hubris probably makes them believe they can do it better. Then again, Intel used to be the best in the business, too, and Apple ditched them with those overheating problems and years-long delays. They may never do their own fab business, but it wouldn’t shock me to find out they’re investigating it… just in case.

 

[npmacuser5]

I'm glad that works for you.

Me, I am more interested in truth, than simple minded half truths, bad code, and propaganda. But again that's just me.

I would disagree.
Type this into your search engine “new blood pressure guidelines”
You will get no answers and pages of websites to visit.
I use Microsoft copilot a very good first generation product.
What I got below in ten seconds. FYI, checked, 100% accurate and offers more options if needed.

“The 2023 blood pressure guidelines emphasize the importance of accurate measurement and early intervention. Here are the key categories:

• Normal: Less than 120/80 mm Hg
• Elevated: Systolic between 120-129 and diastolic less than 80
• Stage 1 Hypertension: Systolic between 130-139 or diastolic between 80-89
• Stage 2 Hypertension: Systolic at least 140 or diastolic at least 901

These guidelines aim to help manage and prevent complications from high blood pressure more effectively. If you need more detailed information or a visual chart, the American Heart Association provides resources and downloadable charts23.

Is there anything specific you would like to know about managing blood pressure?”

 

[Victor Mortimer]

I think every AI company is missing the forest for the trees here.

People yearn for a search engine like how Google was back in the early 2000s. But this is impossible today because SEO ruined it. Now we have all these AI companies delivering quick answers to questions, but this is not search.

YES. We want functional search back. Google was amazingly good in 1999, it was so much better than, say, AltaVista that it was the only actual search engine to survive.

OpenAI or anyone else should leverage AI to show search results in a list like they used to be. Specifically, use the AI to select the top 10, 20, 100, or whatever web sites with the information you are seeking, display them in a list, with a little blurb quoting and excerpting relevant info from each link. This way, it could filter out the SEO garbage, direct the user to the info they are seeking, but still provide a semblance of control and choice by showing it in a list format instead of just a robo-answer to a question.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOO!

"AI"/LLM is the exact WRONG way to go. Somebody should leverage ACTUAL SEARCH instead of tossing out garbage approximate (wrong) results. Don't hand out a worthless hallucinated list, hand out web sites. Google's garbage has gotten so bad that no amount of explicitly specifying search terms can avoid the worthless "did you mean" wrong results any more. I'm not using DDG more because it got significantly better, I'm using it because Google got infinitely worse.

 

[jjwwqq]

Here is an amazing fact: not only can you select a search engine other than Google via a pop up menu, you can even search and find a search engine that Apple doesn’t present as an option! It’s quite simple.

But NPCs are going to NPC.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I see both sides here. Google in unquestionably the king of search for the vast majority of the public, it’s a lucrative deal for both huge companies, and yeah, I use other search engines, but usually default to google when I’m searching for something more obscure.

Antitrust laws are messy. It seems the government sees some monopolies and antitrust behavior as a necessary evil, and others they go after, and the lines aren’t always clear.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

That is because of the learning function and local restrictions at this development level. As each generation develops snd the hardware necessary to fully support AI, awesome. To your point, no AI is not just a search engine. Much more intelligent. Some say scary intelligent. Might tend to agree with them.

It’s never more than just “aggregating and summarizing some humans words”, and that’s all it CAN ever be. Start up any “AI”, don’t give it access to prior human data, don’t let it pull in current human data, and it’s FAR less useful than a dumb search engine.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

boy. these payments get taken away and there goes apple revenue reports.

now I know why Warren Buffet unloaded half of his Apple stock.


he sees the writing on the wall

revenue in the future will either come in low or flat. year over year.

Apple’s services are on an upward trend year over year even without Google’s payments. There will be a $5 billion hit per quarter and, in a few years, they’ll be back to the $20b per quarter they are now.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

I would disagree.
Type this into your search engine “new blood pressure guidelines”
You will get no answers and pages of websites to visit.
I use Microsoft copilot a very good first generation product.
What I got below in ten seconds. FYI, checked, 100% accurate and offers more options if needed.

“The 2023 blood pressure guidelines emphasize the importance of accurate measurement and early intervention. Here are the key categories:

• Normal: Less than 120/80 mm Hg
• Elevated: Systolic between 120-129 and diastolic less than 80
• Stage 1 Hypertension: Systolic between 130-139 or diastolic between 80-89
• Stage 2 Hypertension: Systolic at least 140 or diastolic at least 901

These guidelines aim to help manage and prevent complications from high blood pressure more effectively. If you need more detailed information or a visual chart, the American Heart Association provides resources and downloadable charts23.

Is there anything specific you would like to know about managing blood pressure?”

So I did that. I searched “new blood pressure guidelines” on both Google and DuckDuckGo.

From both sites, I actually got pretty good results with that, both gave me a Harvard medical school site as the first hit, fortunately neither tried to give me some "answer" that neither is even remotely qualified to return. Google is not a doctor, DuckDuckGo is not a doctor, and Micro$loth is definitely NOT A DOCTOR.

A search engine should return relevant links. It should absolutey NOT, under any circumstances, attempt to answer a question with ANYTHING but relevant links to actual sources that have relevant information.