With the Google Antitrust Ruling, Will Apple Build a Search Engine?

[x86dude]

A few years ago, I was knocked down by a reversing car and wound up in hospital with a badly broken arm.

Twelve days after the operation they were preparing me to go home but wanted the name of my chemist (drug store) first. No release without it.

I had my iphone and for a day, had been googling (from my hospital bed), but could not find it. Then I remembered I had recently set my search engine away from Google to one mentioned here. Switched back and immediately found my chemist shop. They had changed name from what I remembered but only Google knew the old name.

Bottom line is it’s a serious risk to use another search engine. No one should be forced to do it.

 

[AppliedMicro]

they were preparing me to go home but wanted the name of my chemist (drug store) first. No release without it

The chemist may have just closed down - in which case providing the name is pointless.
Not releasing you for failure to provide the name sounds like (should be!) a criminal offence.

 

[Audentia]

This makes no sense.

DoJ and EU declare Google Apple deal is monopolistic, Apple sees no other product of satisfactory quality, builds its own search engine (essentially mandated by the gov)
then DoJ and EU declares Apple has a search monopoly, must not use its own search engine, just like all the App Store stuff.

This is as dumb as the DoJ trying to mandate Apple build iMessage for Android. This is not a good precedent, looks more like CCP than free democracy.

Hopefully AI search like brave and perplexity make all of this moot since there will be real competition again, but the gov is so clueless how to make things actually flourish. It's not regulation that helps consumers, its innovation, again, like LLMs, that will actually make a difference.

 

[Rygaard]

Do people still use Google in 1 or 2 years?

Since getting ChatGPT, I almost never Google things anymore. It's much faster and avoids the clutter of paid content designed to keep me engaged.
That's why I think a device like the Rabbit R1 is a great idea with a nice form factor, but the execution is poor.

 

[Ramchi]

Apple would have done this long back if it could! Now, only option is buying Google to replace Google! No way Apple can match Google search. It looks so simple from outside but the kind of brain behind the whole data centre, server farms, AI, ML, data engineering capabilities with proven results etc..is beyond the Apple’s reach. They actually started voice assistant in mobile than anyone but they are still struggling compared to others. As I said earlier, Apple is good in making excellent devices, OS & Frameworks. Unfortunately, Apple has enormous amount of data at their disposal which they do not know how to use it unlike Google.

 

[scorpio vega]

and once Apple uses their own search engine in safari, they will be sued once again for monopoly. stupid ruling

I mean how would they.

Microsoft already does the same thing with bing on windows with edge by default. Google does the same with chrome on android.

It would be different if apple didn’t allow you to change it.

 

[The Apple Bitch]

I would disagree.
Type this into your search engine “new blood pressure guidelines”
You will get no answers and pages of websites to visit.
I use Microsoft copilot a very good first generation product.
What I got below in ten seconds. FYI, checked, 100% accurate and offers more options if needed.

“The 2023 blood pressure guidelines emphasize the importance of accurate measurement and early intervention. Here are the key categories:

• Normal: Less than 120/80 mm Hg
• Elevated: Systolic between 120-129 and diastolic less than 80
• Stage 1 Hypertension: Systolic between 130-139 or diastolic between 80-89
• Stage 2 Hypertension: Systolic at least 140 or diastolic at least 901

These guidelines aim to help manage and prevent complications from high blood pressure more effectively. If you need more detailed information or a visual chart, the American Heart Association provides resources and downloadable charts23.

Is there anything specific you would like to know about managing blood pressure?”

Then allow me to disagree with your disagreement. I decided to search for myself (using google) and guess what the first thing popping into view was?

 

[ForkHandles]

I also always select DDG as default search engine. Apple can just allow user to select search engine on first use; no need for a preselected default. (Assuming Google is forced to stop paying Apple for it).

BTW why hasn’t anyone sued Apple for making Safari default browser on all new installations? (i.e. MS Explorer vs Netscape)?

Their very first iPhone has a version of Safari on it. Safari is part of the iPhone product.

Antitrust is involved when you use your dominance in one market to get unfair advantage in another different market.

Eg if Apple built their own search engine and made it default they would likely fall foul. It was never part of iPhone to start with so would be a new product for them.

 

[ForkHandles]

I mean how would they.

Microsoft already does the same thing with bing on windows with edge by default. Google does the same with chrome on android.

It would be different if apple didn’t allow you to change it.

Again antitrust is about using dominance in one market to gain a foothold in another.

Google was part of Android from the start, as was Bing part of Edge.
Edge was not part of Windows from the start and therefore it is not the default browser, instead options are given.

 

[scorpio vega]

Again antitrust is about using dominance in one market to gain a foothold in another.

Google was part of Android from the start, as was Bing part of Edge.
Edge was not part of Windows from the start and therefore it is not the default browser, instead options are given.

Google woild be the dominant one then.

Edge isn’t a major player so it isn’t dominant.

Apple adding in their own search engine is literally no different than google doing the same.

It’s why apple in the EU now gives you the choice of default browsers.

Apple can create its own search engine just like it does with music and video and browsers but as long as it is not abusing its position to gain market share than it’s fine.

 

[macfacts]

Or just dump AI and SEO into a dumpster fire and bring back what actually worked

Before google search, there was directory listing like yahoo/ yellow pages (phone book)

 

[laptech]

Apple will not need to build a search engine, they can still use Google BUT Apple would have to show to regulators that the selection process of who becomes the companies default browser is fair.

Apple should be picking the best browser for it's users, not just the one that pays the most money.

 

[.wojtek]

The payout is absolutely meant to stifle competition.

Yes... because propping up monopoly does wonder for the competition xD

This is ridiculous! Someone has to be default. Businesses pay a lot of money to be featured in the front-page of the newspaper.
Wouldn't that be considered as an antitrust move? No.

So just because two absurdly wealthy entities prop-up each other makes everything OK... fffs xD

Saw earlier today that DuckDuckGo wants repeated search engine selection prompts. As in incessant pop-ups pestering you to confirm your selection. Absolutely unhinged.

Considering awesome practices from our beloved giants - MS/Edge prompting user to switch soaked in dark patterns that user may not even be aware that it - I wouldn't say it's all that far fetched...

What is boggles me is so many goes out of their way to defend multi-billion corps 😵‍💫

 

[ForkHandles]

Google woild be the dominant one then.

Edge isn’t a major player so it isn’t dominant.

Apple adding in their own search engine is literally no different than google doing the same.

It’s why apple in the EU now gives you the choice of default browsers.

Apple can create its own search engine just like it does with music and video and browsers but as long as it is not abusing its position to gain market share than it’s fine.

Apple could create a search engine. But if it ran directly in a browser it could not be the “default” search engine.

Otherwise their dominance in the ‘Browsing’ market would give them an unfair advantage in the ‘Search’ market. That’s Antitrust.

Had they started iPhone with Safari and Apple Search from 2007 there would be no anti trust.

 

[NoIdentity]

At what point will search engines become a public service?

 

[Futurix]

Apple should just buy DuckDuckGo - it is pretty good.

 

[svish]

Not expecting Apple to start a search engine! Users will be asked about the search engine they want to use. Expecting nothing more.

 

[hans1972]

Apple could fix this by asking the user what they want their default search engine to be when they first use their browser, and maybe once after each major iOS update after that.

It's not Apple's responsibility to fix Googles anti-trust problem. I can't see how the court can force Apple to do anything in this case.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Apple sees no other product of satisfactory quality, builds its own search engine (essentially mandated by the gov)
then DoJ and EU declares Apple has a search monopoly, must not use its own search engine, just like all the App Store stuff.

You‘re making stuff up. Nobody, neither to DoJ nor the EU told Google or Apple that they can‘t offer their own App Store.

But yeah… be prepared that they can‘t leverage their dominant position as operating system developers to shut out or „tax“ the competition in internet search engines just from/for… being available as search engines in the bundled browser‘s address bar or digital assistant.

That is something wholly different than „must not use“ though.

 

[hans1972]

Sure wish you would read up on what “free markets” are.

(Hint: the absence of government intervention alone does not make “free” a market - even though you may have been conditioned into believing that by your local politicians and political lobbyists)

It depends on how you define free markets.

I do define a completely free market as where there is no government intervention in the supply and demands for products and services, and transactions between buyers and sellers are voluntary.

Now with this definition no free markets exist, so we measure how far away they're are from this ideal.

Very few markets in the EU comes close to being free markets. There is an enormous amount of laws and regulations, both local, national, EU-wide and pan-European.

 

[hans1972]

When you set up your new Apple device, you get prompted for all kinds of things. There could be a prompt for Search Engine choice.

We should have fewer choices to make a startup, not more.

I would suggest a comprise that the first choice would be:

A) Apple makes every choice it can for you.
B) You will be presented with 30 choices you have to make before you can use your device.

 

[iPadified]

Vestager is basing whether or not the DMA is successful on how much it affects the profits of those companies. That’s her bottom line.

Have you asked her? As I read your quotes, she only speaks about consequences and not at all that magnitude of losses are a measurable success criteria for EU. Her task and mandate* is to ensure that all companies follows DMA. I believe you read in too much evil here where none exist or would make sense. Sure American IT companies are mostly affected by DMA, but they are the largest and also come with attitudes that might work in the US but absolutely not in EU or the rest of the world.

*Note, Vestager sits in the EC which is the executive part of EU and the EC do not decide the laws but is a body to ensure laws are acted upon.

 

[hans1972]

Apple: We're all about privacy!
Also Apple: *takes obscene money from Google to be the default search engine*

A search engine isn't a privacy problem unless you give away a lot of personal information in your search queries.

 

[nt5672]

I would disagree.
Type this into your search engine “new blood pressure guidelines”
You will get no answers and pages of websites to visit.
I use Microsoft copilot a very good first generation product.
What I got below in ten seconds. FYI, checked, 100% accurate and offers more options if needed.

“The 2023 blood pressure guidelines emphasize the importance of accurate measurement and early intervention. Here are the key categories:

• Normal: Less than 120/80 mm Hg
• Elevated: Systolic between 120-129 and diastolic less than 80
• Stage 1 Hypertension: Systolic between 130-139 or diastolic between 80-89
• Stage 2 Hypertension: Systolic at least 140 or diastolic at least 901

These guidelines aim to help manage and prevent complications from high blood pressure more effectively. If you need more detailed information or a visual chart, the American Heart Association provides resources and downloadable charts23.

Is there anything specific you would like to know about managing blood pressure?”

But that data is fundamentally flawed.

Stage 1 hypertension guidelines are age and country specific. Other countries that are not governed by the FDA's need to sell pills use different ranges. Blood pressure naturally goes up as people age. So what you have here is simply FDA/Government propaganda.

This is exactly the problem with AI, thank you for pointing it out.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple will not need to build a search engine, they can still use Google BUT Apple would have to show to regulators that the selection process of who becomes the companies default browser is fair.

Apple should be picking the best browser for it's users, not just the one that pays the most money.

The majority of users will still choose google search, and you will have accomplished nothing except annoy users with yet another pop-up.